Why can't I ever taste the rub?

What kind of rub and how much do you use? Just so you know. I have been dustimg my briskets and butts with cayenne prior to applying the rub. It just happens to be my method. That said I taste my spices, but I can't really taste the cayenne like you would expect. I give my briskets and butts all the rub they can take. I am gonna try some new stuff with my butts, because I want even more spice to come through. Probably more cayenne or ground peppers. I don't use habanero because I find that is just heat and not so much in the flavor dept. I live for flavor and heat though. Most years I have gotten a 40lb box of Hatch green chilis from NM. I roast them myself. This year I didnt because I let so much go to waste last year. But pork and hatch green chilis is the bomb!

IMO, in a long cook, you are more likely to taste a blended seasoning, mixed with smoke,cooked fat drippings from the firebox top, and exuded meat juices.

Unless,you get a bad flavor.

A short cook,i.e. chicken,fish,shellfish will give more of the original flavor of the spice.

I think Smokin' intends to start a rub thread,where all these questions can be touched upon.

Hope this helps a little.

You're very astute.

Two things.

1. It certainly depends on the rub itself, lots of flavors will tend to just "disappear".

2. Try adding a little more during during the cook. That way the spices don't have time to cook out. Just add more towards the end.

That's why Memphis dry ribs will get a sprinkling AFTER the cook, they like to taste the rub. Me, I'd do it on ribs about 1/2 way through the cook to give the rub time to season a little more.

Tony, to answer your questions, I've used a variety of rubs, from Montreal seasoning, to custom blends. I haven't tried going heavy duty on the pepper or the cayenne, like it sounds like you do, because my kids wouldn't eat it then ... but you're probably right, cayenne is so powerful, even if just a little stays on through the cook, you can probably taste it.

Tom and Smokin', I think you're right. Lately, instead of wasting a half bottle of spice on the rub, only to not taste it after the cook, I just sprinkle it on after I slice or pull the meat. Keeps the spice costs down and I can taste it much more.

I didn't know, though, if I was missing out on crispier bark by not using a rub. Don't some people use rubs with sugar to thicken up or crisp the bark ... or is that more a myth that certain rubs will crisp up the bark?

I'm not sure I'd care for a sugary rub on pork or beef.

Studly,your on the right track.

I think I'll wait for Smokin'to start a Rubs thread,and we can keep the info together.

Just a side note. If the spices used to make the rub have been sitting in your cupboard for a year(s)there will be a lack of quality flavor.

Spices should be used in 3- 6 months according to the pros I have either watched on TV or read up on.

Another thing is you tend to get what you pay for. Those $1.00/ 2-3 oz. bottle spices from Dollar General are not the same as the Name brands that cost 3 times as much money for 3 times less product.

i have to go with geiyserq on that one!!! with spices you get what you pay for in spades.
on the sugar thing you need to be careful of the type and quantity and even then what will work well in say an fec will not give the same results in an sm. and thats all i'm gonna say on that. can't wait for the rub discussion in advanced brisket this weekend
jack

Studly,
I've been scoring my butts recently like you would a ham. Once that is done , I will take the rub and get it down in the crevices. It gives me quite a bit more bark than usual, and as far as sugar goes, I use Turbinado sugar. I have always been pleased with the results.
Keep in mind however that too much time and too much sugar may give you a "burnt" taste

Amen GeiyserQ! Nothing beats fresh spices. Got turned on to fresh ground pepper a few years ago and have not had the old flat, dry stuff since. Got rosemary, parsley and oregeno growing just outside the back door. Seriously, the difference is like night and day - like coke out of a can and one that been opened and sitting in a plastic bottle for six months! No zip, No comparison!

Now, did someone mention a Rub Discussion...?

Just started a new topic Brisket 202, Rub discussion, so jump in there with your Brisket/Rub thoughts and questions.

What I have been doing is buying my spices in 5 Quart jugs. Then I vacuum pack them in smaller bags. You can then either freeze them or not. Then when the 5 quart container is empty, I add another bag. That way I can shake them up real good and get rid of any clumps may may develope. That said many bulk spices will have anti-clumping agent tossed in.

I love montreal steak seasoning on steaks and burgers. I am not too sure it is best for brisket though. I don't believe it has the right amount of sugars. But if that is the flavor you like, you go for it.

But in my honest opinion Studly, you are not using enough spice. If you are not comfortable with the cayenne, stay away from it, but run with something else that might work for you.

This whole cooking thing is my hobby. I have two dinner parties a month. whether it be cajun/creole or bbq or seafood. I enjoy it and my friends do too. I always experiment. I know what works but I will slightly alter my spices and see how my friends react. I can go out to dinner with my family and spend $100 or I can cook for my family and friends for the same and get leftovers to boot. Plus the quality is better, plus I like to show off. So far my ST has been quite the toy to brag about. Last weekend we had a rib roast (choice) from COSTCOS. We had 15 people for dinner. Nothing was left over. There were even about 4 people there who had never had rib roast before. Mainly because they do not like their meat rare. Well I made believers out of them.

So experiment with your smoker and your spices. I will send you some spices. I have been shipping out spices to folks on this forum since I joined a few months ago. Email me your address and I will send you something to get you out of your box.

This first image is where I have dusted the brisket with the cayenne. I normally go rather heavy with the cayenne, but this is a new brand that is supposed to be twice as strong. Well in the end it wasn't. If you want to use cayenne, but do not want to chance it being to strong. just mix it 50/50 with some paprika for the ease of an even application.




This second image is where I added the garlic powder. You can also use garlic salt, but depending on what else you are going to apply, you may not need any more saltiness. As you can see the garlic powder is absorbed rather quickly in that you almost cant see it. Again, how much you use is up to you.



In this third image you will see where I have applied the commercial rub rather heavily. As you can see I have given all it can take. Even now it will not all stick to the meat. But I will do my darndest to rub as much as possible into the meat.



This fourth image is my brisket completely rubbed down on both sides. I prepared both sides alike. I did not wrap the brisket in the foil pictured. I just transferred the meat here for the picture because once I flipped the brisket over to apply the rub to the other side, things on my cutting board got rather messy in a hurry. Also after I applied the rub, I made sure to massage it into as much of the meat as possible, hence more mess, but a good mess!
I always prpare the fat cap side last. That way when I set it on the grate prior to going into the smoker, I will not disturb the rub as much.



This final image is where I took the brisket out of the smoker once the temp got to 160 or so and then I chose to wrap it and place it back into the smoker for the final cook to 190 degrees. That is not necessary but what I chose to do on on this occasion.



So as you can see, in order to get a good flavor from a rub you need to apply a liberal amount said rub/spice. This is important as well where a good bark is desired.

Thanks Smokin for getting me started with the images.

Tony, great photos, excellent tips and thanks for the offer to send some spices. I think I'll take a raincheck on that, since I've got lots of already boughten spices that are going to take me a long time to use up. But I really appreciate the offer!

I noticed your spices are chopped up quite fine. Would finely chopped spices stick better to the meat than spices that are more coarsely ground?

Also, I know that a lot of people use mustard as a base before putting the spice on. Does this allow the spice to stick better to the meat and resist the meat's juices from washing it away? They say you can't taste the mustard in the end, so my best guess is that it's used as a kind of paste to make the spice stick better. Does it work?

Thanks everyone for the advice and tips!

My experience has shown that you do not need any mustard to get the spices to stick. Unless your cut of meat has dried out the spices will stick just fine.
I worked in a steakhouse in Maryland in the mid 70's. The manager there would make a rub for personal use only, it had horseradish and mustard in it. It was very good. I have briefly attempted to duplicate it without much luck. I may try again now that I am thinking about it. He mainly used it on ribs.
Today I put a brisket on where I used ground peppercorns and dried minced onion along with my regular rubs. The minced onion did have a hard time sticking. That said I doubt that it matters much in the flavor. I was just experimenting.
Again I used cayenne, garlic salt this time because the BigBull rub isn't as salty as the Gaterbreath and the ground peppercorns and onion of course. But I did apply the garlic salt (Lawry's) after the rub then massaged them in together. I'll let you know how it comes out.