Need Inverter Help.

Your inverter had some bad reviews on Amazon, could be your problem. They seem to have a responsive customer service, you might try them and see what they think. LINK

I pay extra at all comps for electricity, but always power my FEC and PG500 off of two batteries and an inverter. They don't like dirty/unstable power.

Obviously, based on your measurements, it doesn't appear the battery is the problem. I'm having trouble getting the AH (amp hour) rating of your battery. Do you have the AH rating? Also, is your FEC100 drawing 5 amps continuously? As you probably already know, with the AH and FEC100 average load (say 5 amps), it's easy to determine how long the FEC100 should run on a full battery charge. You probably know this but, deep cycle batteries should never be completely discharged. I'm guessing your battery AH is about 110. Is this correct? Also, inverters inherently have a 10 to 15% loss in efficiency. Therefore, the FEC100 drawing 5 amps at 120V requires 600 watts from the inverter, but the inverter is most likely outputting 10 to 15% less wattage due to DC to AC conversion efficiency loss.

Edited to add: Forget everything I posted since I just learned that after startup the FEC100 only draws a maximum of 50 watts with fan running at max and auger running. After startup, your battery should keep the FEC100 going for at least 100 hours or more on one deep cylcle battery rated at about 110 AH.

Cal,
Two years ago I was part of a competition team that used this same inverter to power our FEC100 and it worked flawlessly so I don't think the inverter is the issue but i don't know for sure...
Bearcarver,
I don't know the exact AH rating of the battery either but it shoud be around 100 hrs for the 27 series battery so that's why I say, this setup should provide me with more than enough power for the time needed for a competition cook.

Yes, your setup should work. Keep us posted if and when you solve the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by rddodgeaz:
Cal,
Two years ago I was part of a competition team that used this same inverter to power our FEC100 and it worked flawlessly so I don't think the inverter is the issue but i don't know for sure...

I had one time that I charged mine after a back to back contest and the next contest when I started the PG500, the alarm just started to beep a little. I charged the batteries again after the contest and never had a problem, I just figured that I had a bad connection when I tried to charge the batteries the first time?

Does your inverter have a display to show how many watts you are using?

Another thought, what size cable and length are you using on the battery? Could it be a bad connection?

What was the ambient temp? Cold will deplete the battery capacity.

They've pretty much covered the potential issues other than something internally wrong with the FE and it's draining more power.

The pull is heavy when the igniter is running but it only runs for the first few minutes to get the pellets started.

I would suggested getting an inverter / charger combination. Just do a search, there are plenty of discussions in the comp forum.

Search on "inverter" in the FE forums


I used two Marine Batteries connected and a Triplite Inverter/charger combination. I hooked up to the existing power and it kicked in flawlessly when any power issues were noted. I ran two FE's off my setup. This isn't the exact model, mine was only about a 1200W total, but close:


http://www.tripplite.com/rv-po...-hardwire~MRV2012UL/

Russ,
Thanks for the input.
It was between 30 and 40 degrees that night. I'm not exactly sure (Cold for Arizona though...)
What do you think could be 'internally' wrong with it? Is there another circuit I can test to see if the load is too heavy?
I can't buy another inverter right now. I really just need to figure out what is wrong. Our first comp of the year wants an extra $75 for electrical.

Have the battery tested somewhere (you didn't say how old it is).

Cold weather will decrease your battery's ability so that's an issue.

You could try to disconnect the ignitor and start it manually (with some gel starter for example)

Or add a 2nd battery.

The battery is less than two months old so i don't think the battery is the issue.
I know the FEC100 draws more when it starts up but the battery/inverter setup seems to handle the startup fine. Will it draw more again when the temperature is set to ramp up? I don't know for sure but I suspect that's when it shut off during my last cook.
I am thinking of doing another cook during the day so I can monitor it every half-hour or so.

If I added a second battery, would I connect them in-line then connect the inverter or what would be the setup there?

Here are my thoughts on inverters...

This is based on my setup shown here = Nordy's Setup

The FEC100 and PG1000 each pull about 50 watts max after startup. Auger 25W and Fan 25 W per the manuals. So, assuming the augers and fans are on all the time (they aren't) The two smokers together are pulling 100W.

So Watts=Amps x volts

100W = A x 120V
A = 0.83333

So both cookers running full tilt are pulling a max of 0.83 Amps. Add in some inefficiency in the system and round up to 1 AMP

Each battery is rated for 115 Amp-Hours so In parallel that adds to a total of 230 amp hours. Assuming that the batteries only like 50% discharge... that's 115 amp hours...

So at 1AMP.... they would run for a theoretical 115 hours...


NOW in your case...
The diehard Group 27M Marine battery has a reserve capaicty of 150min.... that is how long it will run at a 25 amp load... So doing the math....

RC x 60 (converts to seconds) 150*60=9000seconds
this time x 25A = 9000*25=225000
this number divided by 3600 (seconds in an hour) 225000/3600=62.5 Amp hours

(It's easier to just divide the RC by 2.4 to get amp hours)

So your battery should be able to run at one amp for about 62 hours (but remember it may be less than this if you use an inverter as 10-20% is lost in inefficiency of the inverter)... So yes your battery should be able to handle it...

I would:
1) Make sure your battery is charged properly.
2) Make sure your battery is in good condition.
3) Test your inverter... maybe try hooking it up to another battery and running your FEC
4) If all of that checks out... Maybe your FEC has an issue, however honestly I think this is unlikely. It is at most pulling 0.5A after the ignitor is off... You might unplugging the ignitor and starting the FEC manually to remove the startup drain and then run it again and see what happens. Or try another battery... or try another inverter...

Nordy

Oh... and if you connect a second battery you will wire it to the other battery in parallel...

Nordy

Thanks Nordy,

knew someone would stop by and do the Math.

Is that in zone 3 or 4... LOL (sorry, guys it's our inside joke).

I did another cook Saturday night/Sunday morning. Prior to the cook, I put the battery on the trickle charger all day Saturday. It was reading 26V when I started the cook. About 5 hours into the cook, the FEC100 had reset itself. By reset itself, I mean it was like I had pushed the reset button. The display was still on but the smoker was not heating up. It was waiting for me to set the cook temp. It didn't shut the smoker completely off this time. However, the low voltage alarm on the inverter was going off. I checked the battery and it was still reading 25V.
I shut everything off. Unplugged the smoker. Plugged the smoker back in to the inverter and turned it on. When I turned the smoker on, the low battery alarm on the inverter went off and here's the weird part. The display on the smoker started flickering and you could hear an electrical crackling like there was a short somewhere.
I couldn't find anything. I plugged the smoker into a household outlet and it worked 100% fine for the remainder of the cook.
I grabbed a lamp (because it was handy) and plugged it into the inverter to see if the low voltage alarm would go off with anything plugged into it. It didn't. The inverter worked fine with the lamp plugged into it and the smoker worked fine plugged into the household outlet.
I'm back to square one. I don't know if the inverter or the smoker is the problem...

I'm by no means an expert on this, but it's possible that the electronics in the smoker is looking for a nice clean 60 Hz sine wave from the power source but isn't getting it from your inverter, whereas lamps aren't so fussy. Hard to tell without an oscilloscope.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay1924:
...I'm by no means an expert on this, but it's possible that the electronics in the smoker is looking for a nice clean 60 Hz sine wave ...

There has been some discussion in the past about that, but no one has a definitive answer and people came out on both sides of the discussion.

My inverter isn't producing a perfect wave and I had zero issues with it but others had a different experience.

It's possible there is a grounding issue inside the inverter.

I'd try a different inverter as that seems to be the weak link in your set-up.

Not sure about the crackling, but that's not good, I'd try to isolate that issue as well (where was the crackle)?

If the smoker works fine on household circuit, try it on a GFCI and that will tell you if it's grounding out some inverters don't like those issues.

25 Volts.... Sounds like you had your batteries connected in series instead of parallel.

quote:

PowerBright APS600 600Watt Power Inverter

Do you have the APS600-12 or APS600-24?

Sorry, misstype on the 25V. It was 12V...

Russ,
It was making the crackling noise in the digital display or in the electrical behind there. The display was flickering off and on with the crackling noise.
If I run it on a GFCI and it is grounding out somewhere, will it trip the GFCI?

Just another guess, but could independently grounding your inverter help? Sometimes lousy or intermittent ground connections can cause voltage fluctuations that for certain kinds of digital circuits can mean (temporary) death. Battery to inverter to smoker without an independent ground (to a water pipe or such) seems chancy.

From what I've read about this product, it doesn't come with cables so what type/diameter of cables are you using?

quote:

PowerBright APS600 600Watt

With my limited experience on these. You have a bad inverter. regardless of what it did previously. a simple surge from plugging in the battery or the surge from charging while attached can short out the diode that sends the voltage to the circuit that reads voltage etc..

I would also recommend not using a "Cheap" pure sine wave inverter on anything that uses inductive energy such as fans and heating elments.

Of course a fan motor (or any electric motor) uses induction to work, but I'm not sure how a simple resistive heating element does that. Why would that be a problem for a sine wave inverter? And how is an inverter that comes closer to mimicking the powerline source worse than a MSW inverter? As someone who has been considering a backup PS for my smoker, I'm trying to understand the details.

Cal,
I bought 4ga. battery cables.

Nordy,
Are you using a TrippLite inverter/charger on your setup like Russ is?

That should be heavy enough cables.

I use two marines batteries and bought one of these from Wally World...... inverter

Has worked great for 3yrs...knock on wood!

Doing some more research trying to figure this out. Do you guys think either of these would affect it?
I did not have a ground wire connected.
I did not have an in-line fuse connected between the battery and the inverter.

If your inverter has a ground wire connection (I think it does), connecting to a truck chassis, water pipe, etc. will help prevent voltage surges and static buildup.

Your battery should read north of 12 volts.
I would
1. Disconnect the igniter (causes more problems than it solves)
2. Use a handful of pellets and a blow torch to start the fire (been doing it since 2005)
3. Take the battery to an autoparts store and have it tested.
4. If it tests good and shows more than 12.6 volts after charge and will not last more than 12 hours, look at the inverter.
5. Go to where ever and get a cheap inverter and test again. I would suspect one of your neighbors has one.
6. The FEC runs very good on them thank you very much on them as long as there is no ground wire hooked up from the inverter or FEC to actual ground and the igniter is disconnected.

OK, I bow to experience with this type of setup, but I've never seen a battery-based system work well with a floating ground, if digital electronics are involved.

Ground, at comps, is at best non-existent. Unless you provide a proper ground path with a rod driven into the ground (there are certain rules that must be followed), it is best to allow the battery negative to be you reference unless you drive the rod and hook it up to the system.

What about connecting the battery negative to a vehicle chassis? You won't have the dedicated ground planes and surrounding protection such as a low-voltage, low current design provides, but at least there is some mass of metal to keep static and voltage fluctuations to a minimum. Just my $.02. I guess I'd worry about some exposed piece of metal getting to 12 or 24 volts with nothing limiting current if someone grounds it accidentally. Same effects on the digital boards.

Cal,
I was just doing some heavy reading while my wife recovers from surgery today. I am hoping to begin my journey into Comp BBQ this year and maybe didn't realize power was such a large issue. I do have a generator on my Toy Hauler but have see some places won't allow. I guess I wonder if they allow in emergencies when the power is not sufficiently supplied.

Nonetheless all this talk of inverters/batteries is making me think I might need at the very least for a back.

Would you be will to share with me your setup and how it works.
Thanks
Greg

quote:

Originally posted by cal:
That should be heavy enough cables.

I use two marines batteries and bought one of these from Wally World...... inverter

Has worked great for 3yrs...knock on wood!

quote:

Originally posted by ghastie55:
Cal,
I was just doing some heavy reading while my wife recovers from surgery today. I am hoping to begin my journey into Comp BBQ this year and maybe didn't realize power was such a large issue. I do have a generator on my Toy Hauler but have see some places won't allow. I guess I wonder if they allow in emergencies when the power is not sufficiently supplied.

Nonetheless all this talk of inverters/batteries is making me think I might need at the very least for a back.

Would you be will to share with me your setup and how it works.
Thanks
Greg

quote:

Originally posted by cal:
That should be heavy enough cables.

I use two marines batteries and bought one of these from Wally World...... inverter

Has worked great for 3yrs...knock on wood!

We will be cooking the VFW in Overland Park,KS the weekend of 4/17. You are welcome to come out, visit, and take a look at how we are setup.

I'd be happy to answer most any question on how we cook on the FEC, if you have any?

I have a Honda 3000 invertor/generator but we ALWAYS use the batteries for the cookers.

very good i will do that. I'll just be back from a Conference at Vegas on the 16th.