Reading all the replies is a little funny. I started the post wondering if in the years since i stopped keeping up with these things, something else had come along and taken over Forchner's place as the bang for the buck choice. Guess I will replace my old, beat up Forchner with the same thing. At least after all these years I have my wife trained not to put the kives in the dishwasher. That only took 20 years.