Bark on my Butt

Bobby, not only great looking butt, the Mr. Brown looks excellent, too!. This is about the only way we'll cook butt.

We've only made one attempt at butt in the CS because, as you are aware, the soft bark.

Your GE is similar to what we are going to try next, finishing in the oven.

What we need to know, and won't be able to compare, is finishing in the oven, vs finishing on a more dry pit.

We've always been led to believe that smoke stops penetrating the meat at about 140 internal. We've believed it because it's been written so many times by so many people, in books and on the web. However, we've yet to see anyone run a real comparison with two similar butts on the same day, cooking under the same conditions.

You have the tools to do that. Any chance of finishing two butts, one in the oven and one in the GE, that both started out together in the CS?

BTW, have you tried leaving the butt on the counter, lightly covered with a dish cloth, for about 30-45 mins before pulling? We find that it pulls very easy after resting.

Regards, Mike

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Originally posted by Michael Rochman:
Bobby, not only great looking butt, the Mr. Brown looks excellent, too!. This is about the only way we'll cook butt.

We've only made one attempt at butt in the CS because, as you are aware, the soft bark.

I agree, great looking butt, but considering I've done about 75-100 in the CS, mine look pretty similar and don't come out with "soft bark". I said more likely somewhere around medium bark (but I don't want it so hard that you can't eat it) nope, not us. Interesting discussion some time we should have about Mr. Brown and Mrs. White, I don't think the new smokers have really noticed the two different meats in the same butt.

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Your GE is similar to what we are going to try next, finishing in the oven.

Let us know how it goes, but it sounds like a lot of work

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What we need to know, and won't be able to compare, is finishing in the oven, vs finishing on a more dry pit.

Someone in the CS nation will take up the challenge, yes sir re.

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We've always been led to believe that smoke stops penetrating the meat at about 140 internal. We've believed it because it's been written so many times by so many people, in books and on the web. However, we've yet to see anyone run a real comparison with two similar butts on the same day, cooking under the same conditions.

Now this is a new discussion and I don't think the bark is caused by the smoke, but the flavor in the bark is. Is it one of those which came first questions? The bark or the Smokey Flavor? I've seen several posts over the years, and I'll have to see if I can find them. They indicated that the reason the smoke stops penetrating at 140 is a chemical/meat thing (and the poster was one of those scientific types) and the discussion had to do with the ability of the meat to accept the smoke before the pores or something like that closedup. But hey, Smoke'em if you got'em. I agree that a lot of the information on the net gets quoted as "fact" when in reality, we'll never know. I think to do the experiment, it's a different one than the bark (although at the latter part of the cook, guess they're the same).

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You have the tools to do that. Any chance of finishing two butts, one in the oven and one in the GE, that both started out together in the CS?

I'd say add a third, one in the oven, one in the CS and one in the BGE (that's Big Green Egg).

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BTW, have you tried leaving the butt on the counter, lightly covered with a dish cloth, for about 30-45 mins before pulling? We find that it pulls very easy after resting.

Regards, Mike

Agree with all the comments. I really liked the photos BQ. I like to set mine aside for a while before pulling (but the family usually won't wait). Great comments guys, I'll be watching your experiment with interest.

Smokin'Okie

Mike & Smokin-

Thanks for replies, guys.

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What we need to know, and won't be able to compare, is finishing in the oven, vs finishing on a more dry pit

Mike- it is problematic for me to do two, no less three butts (as you, smokin, suggest) in the CS. I'm going to do my next butt totally in the CS, and will compare the bark to what a got on the bi-smokered (CS & BGE) effort yesterday.

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...considering I've done about 75-100 in the CS, mine look pretty similar and don't come out with "soft bark". I said more likely somewhere around medium bark (but I don't want it so hard that you can't eat it) nope, not us.

Smokin- with the experience you have had doing butts in the CS, I will do my next butt in the CS, as noted above.

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I'd say add a third, one in the oven, one in the CS and one in the BGE (that's Big Green Egg

To be really scientific, we would need to set up double blind crossover experiments with wood, without wood, in CSs, ovens (gas vs electric, etc.), Eggs, etc. I'm going to do the cooks on a each time basis, and let my eyes, nose and tastebuds tell me what is good or better. I'll extrapolate the results on an anecdotal basis, just like lots of the BBQ lore is passed on to us. that's why this is all such fun!

I'll be interested to her your report now that you have the BGE experience. If you need help eating the experiment, just call.

Okay, here's the plan, everyone bring their old smokers to the Cookshack Event (whenever we can make it happen) and we'll set up all the experiments we can. You guys figure out
Wwhat experiments you want to run, and I'll figure out how much fun (will probably involve staying up all night, telling stories about Q, drinking --uh -- refreshments, and if Stogie comes -- Stogies)

It's too much to ask of one man, we need to do that as an excuse to party!!!!!!!

Just my opinion

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To be really scientific, we would need to set up double blind crossover experiments with wood, without wood, in CSs, ovens (gas vs electric, etc.), Eggs, etc. I'm going to do the cooks on a each time basis, and let my eyes, nose and tastebuds tell me what is good or better. I'll extrapolate the results on an anecdotal basis, just like lots of the BBQ lore is passed on to us. that's why this is all such fun!

Hey, BobbyQ, extrapolate this!

Regards, Mike

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Okay, here's the plan, everyone bring their old smokers to the Cookshack Event (whenever we can make it happen) and we'll set up all the experiments we can. You guys figure out

Hey Smokiedoke, some of us still drive cars; some of us even drive sports cars. So, bring an extra pit for us, if you please.

Regards, Mike

Mike- somehow I knew that the extroplated anecdote would get a rise from you!

Hey you guys!!! I think I've got a solution to your bark problem. I've got an old offset that sort of looks like a huge, square, vertical water smoker with a firebox of to one side. Got a water pan and everything. Now this old critter makes some pretty outstanding Q and it will put on a bark 'bout a half inch thick. Smoke flavor? To die for. If you really want great bark an' all that other stuff too, I'll trade it to you straight up for your Cookshack. Won't even want anything to boot in the deal. How's that for generous. Then, while you're busy tending the coals, stoking every 3-4 hours, checking the temp constantly, adjusting the dampers, I'll be sitting in my AC'd house letting your CS do all the work. Deal? I didn't think so.

Just wanted to put things in proper perspective.

Happy Q'in

EZ

True! Word! and you're so Right

Hey EZ, All you guys from St. Louis are full of it. You can't fool us, cuz we're too ignorant !!!

Regards, Mike

Do you ever use a coating of yellow mustard before you apply your rub to aid in building a more substantial bark? It is something to avoid in a hotter direct-heat cooker,but brown sugar can help make a more substantial bark in a even-temp smoker like a Cookshack.

Mark- I coated my butt with French's mustard and a rub prior to cooking it.
I do this on ribs & brisket also.

Just couldn't help myself, had to throw in my two cents worth...

I have finished butts on high heat gas grills, wood burner pits and in the oven. The wood burner pits add a bit more flavor to the outside of the meat, but you couldn't tell the difference a 1/4 of an inch into the meat.

Another thing you might try in the Cookshack to get a little more bark is to put brown sugar in the woodbox with the wood. It will carmalize nicely on the meat. It is a bit of a mess to clean up though.

Stuart, interesting about putting brown sugar directly into the woodbox. How much brown sugar are you adding? Would lining the woodbox with foil make cleanup easier. Or, are you saying that the brown sugar would make a mess on the sides of the CS? Have you tried this with brisket, too?

Double Lazy

Bobby Q,
Are those Silestone countertops you have in your kitchen?

Topchef- you ask the following:

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Bobby Q,
Are those Silestone countertops you have in your kitchen?

Nope- the countertops are Corian.

Hey Double L,

It doesn't take a lot of brown sugar, I usually add about 1 cup. To make clean up easier in a 150, buy an small aluminum foil pan that will fit on top of the woodbox housing but below the heat baffle. Fill it with brown sugar and cook away. When you get done throw it away.

You can do the same type thing in a Smokette by putting the foil pan inside the woodbox.

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Originally posted by Stuart:
[qb]Another thing you might try in the Cookshack to get a little more bark is to put brown sugar in the woodbox with the wood. It will carmalize nicely on the meat. [/qb]

Stuart, I understand the physics of sugar caramelization, but a bit unclear as to how this produces more bark. Sugar syrup begins to darken around 280 degrees and begins to burn after 350 degrees.

Having never tried this in a smoker before, I'm assuming that the steam vapors in the smoke box attach to the sucrose particles which then attach to the meat? The result being caramelization, i.e., a "barkier bark"?

If so, 2 questions:
1. Does the process impart a sweetness to the meat ---or at least the crust of the meat?

2. Does the process, apart for the sugar residue mess (which you dealt with) also build-up on the interior walls of the smoker?

Don't mean to nit-pick the idea...just want to better understand the process.

Hey Topchef,

Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner, was on the road this weekend and didn't take my laptop with me. What a mistake...

Adding sugar to the woodbox doesn't give what a traditionalist would say is bark. How if does tend to caramelize on the outside of the meat and give a kind of crusty texture.

It also adds a bit of a sweet taste to the meat. However, if I am after a sweet taste I usually put either honey or maple sugar in the oven.

With that said it also will caramelize on the side walls of the smoker and create more build up that will have to be removed at some time.

Hope that helps.

My main concern was the build-up on the interior surfaces...producing a bitter taste.

Thanks for answering tho'