German Joint

Hey Euro. Welcome.

Lots of questions and the pros will be coming in to help.

I've lived in Germany (son was born in Stuttgart) and you have some great pork there. Definite differences from here.

What smoker will you be using? It's a big question in order to answer some of the other questions. The wood amount will hugely vary depending on the smoker. Electric (cookshack), gas (ole hickory/southern pride) offset (woodburner) or home-made. I can recommend a great smoker if you need any ideas

What "kind" of Q will be best. It's very regional here and more than anything will depend on how good you are with a particular product and other untangibles (like, will Germans like to eat ribs with their hands?)

Great ribs will draw a crowd. Brisket/Pulled Pork are good for quantities (you can make more of this with less effort).

I have questions for you. What about availability and cost of the meat? I don't remember seeing a lot of ribs and brisket in the meat markets. Have you done any research about meat sources/cost?

Make sure you check out the post "favorite sides with your Q" in the open forum for comments about side dishes.

As far as coronaries...don't know, if they had one, we never heard from them after it

Thanks Okie. I didn't mention smokers because I didn't want to anger the forum Gods with talk of competing products. As long as it's kosher I have requested some information from Southern Pride. On the face of it their ovens look a bit more idiot-proof than other ovens. I'm looking for something that will turn out a consistant product with as little fuss as possible. I'd rather the emphasis be on the science as opposed to the art. If anyone has suggestions for commercial rigs, I'm open.

Meat is actually no problem. I have looked at a couple of wholesalers and ribs are freely available. In fact they are often discarded for use in processed food in Germany so the price is pretty cheap.

We'll help you out.

There's a lot of Southern Prides out there and they have a big name, but I hear Ole Hickory is better from a quality standpoint.

My source, Cookshack. They're now selling them and if you've read very much of this forum, you'll get some honest answers from Cookshack. I'll make sure Stuart hops in and talks about Commercial Smokers for 'ya.

That was my thought about ribs. Most of the rest of the world throws the ribs away 'cause they can't figure out how to cook them.

Stay tuned, more info on the way.

Smokin'

Euro,

Thanks for the questions, you will never hurt anyones feelings around here by bringing up the competition. I will throw in my two cents worth.

I don't know if you have compared the Cookshack smokers verses others. With our smokers you load the product, put in your wood, set time and temp and leave it alone. It will cook the product and then drop into a hold cycle. Wood usage is considerably less, it takes about 2 oz of wood per 20 lbs of meat. Product is not dried out by constant air movement you get with gas or wood fired units.

We also carry the Ole Hickory line of smokers. They are very similar to the Southern Pride with two major differences. First Ole Hickory uses a chain to drive it's rotisserie, instead of gear to gear. This means that instead of wearing out gears that are hard to replace, you would wear out a chain that can be replaced in minutes. Second Ole Hickory brings their burner into the middle of the combustion chamber instead of the end. This means that as the log burns it falls into the middle and the whole log burns. With the burner going into end the log must be pushed farther into the unit during the cooking cycle in order to burn the entire log.

Would love to discuss this further with you, feel free to send me a personal email or give me a call at (580) 765-3669.

Euro, sounds like an exciting endeavor. Before the pros get back here, I can't resist asking a couple of questions.
1. BBQ and Beer go hand in hand. Surely you will be the envy of the world in that regard, don't you think? (Did you see Smokin Okie's list of "sides?" Every 3rd side is damn bottle of beer!)
2. Speaking of meat, if you watch these American Q afficionados for long you'll see them eating smoked brats and sausage like jelly beans. Isn't that going to be a killer item for you? Is "smoking" brats, as they are smoked in the world of BBQ, a tradition where you are? Maybe you can break new ground with an old staple.
Beer and brats! You're going to be alright! We're all coming over on Lufthansa. Good luck. Acarriii.

Welcome aboard Euro - the pros from Dover have arrived.

Actually, CaterGreat is the man best apt to answer your questions as he's done more pro Q'ing than I have. Since I've got 20 years under my belt as a chef-owner, I'll toss in my .02 as well.

Back a few threads in this forum you'll find - "So Ya Wanna Open A Restaurant". Give that a peek...it has some basic "do's" for wannabees.

You asked about menu entree items. In my opinion you'll want to have the BIG FOUR to start with: ribs, pulled pork, chicken and brisket...though I understand your concern and limitations regarding beef & mad cow disease.

As to quantities...the usual offering is 1/2 chicken, 1/2 rack spares and 1 rack of babybacks. 6 oz. of pulled pork makes a pretty nice serving. Most Q joints offer combo plates...1/4 chicken + 1/4 rack spares (1/2 rack babybacks).

As for "how much per customer flow"... that will depend on your seating and business plan. Every operation is unique; it will take a month or so for you to best determine how much of what sells. One great thing about BBQ is the fact that it isn't fragile. My restaurant is more or less geared to fine dining but we added added a "Bistro" menu 10 years ago for those folks who didn't want a prix fixe (appetizer, salad, entree & dessert) meal for $38. I've featured both pulled pork and St. Louis spares on the Bistro menu. We finish the spares on a grill and reheat the pulled pork as needed. Both items can be cooked and held, or, cooked and reheated. The same holds true for brisket. I WOULD draw the line at chicken though. Chicken is best cooked and served (held for a short while at proper temp.)or it becomes dried, chewy cardboard.

Wood...you mentioned maple & cherry. Both are excellent Q woods. Maple tends to produce a stronger flavor over Cherry though a mix of both would work well. I've never used Hazlenut though I'm a big fan of Pecan. If it's available to you and isn't overpowering...hey,go for it.

When good things go bad...THEY WILL! That's where the coronaries come from. Seriously,
SH*T happens...your best defense is a good offense. Deal with only the best suppliers. Visit other restaurants, ask around for the best suppliers. Let them know specifically what you want and the quality you expect. And, be prepared to pay a few phennigs more for what you're getting. Cheaper product often comes at a price...underweights or substandard quality. Once you've found your sources, PAY THEM ON TIME! A good supplier who's paid on time will always go the extra kilometer for you.

OK, that's all I got...sheesh, I've created a SmokinOkie post here I'm sure CaterGreat will be stepping up to the plate shortly.

Best of luck to you...feel free to fire away any other questions...we're here to help. It sounds to me as though you've got a goose ready to lay golden eggs.

Aufwiedersehn ~

okay...so I've figured out how to trade brisket for smoked salmon (Andi?)

now how can I get German Beer for Q lessons?

hmmmm.....

sounds like a trips involved here. I've got a friend who owns Old Germany restaurant in Choctaw Oklahoma (great food) and he travels to Germany every year (he's first generation). Gotta figure out how to get onto his trip this year (Oktoberfest + that's in September for you Yanks)

Smokin'

Hey, Y'all, Euro especially,

I'm just a lurker here (oxymoron IN a post?) but I would really like to hear how this comes out if you do decide to open the restaurant. Other cultures' reactions to what I have always regarded as a primarily 'American Ethnic' food would be really interesting and might very well come up with some very good observations and suggestions from a population approaching the table without a lot of preconceived notions and expectations.

Cog, good point! Hey Euro, you still there? I was wondering who Euro'clients might be. Possibly American military?
What I'm also wondering is whether to suggest to Smokin Okie that the new forum have something like an "international" section. A place to encourage cross cultural smoking. (Hmmmm. That sounds a bit wierd).
I think your point is true that smoking (low and slow) is very "parochial" to the South (and, okay, maybe Kansas City). Other cultures grill a lot, of course, and there is smoking of bacon and fish, but is that called "cold smoking?" What would happen if you put Mexican mole (pronounced mo-LAY...before you start making up rodent jokes. Mol�! ) in a slow, hickory smoke environment. And so on. Lot's of good chow in the world. Can we come up with hybrids? BBQ X Indian? BBQ X Spanish?
Don't know. Maybe the chefs know. Maybe Donna knows. Do you know? Acarriii

quote:

Originally posted by acarriii:
[qb] Do you know? Acarriii [/qb]

TC dons his Sgt. Schultz size 52 Luftwaffe overcoat and bellows: "I know nothing!"

Actually AC, think about: until not-so-long ago, most people/cultures were cooking with fire/smoke. Before the days of refridgeration folks used salt and smoke to preserve many foods intended for later consumption.

Barbecue is considered to be an American "thing" but the Chinese were tea-smoking duck 2,000 years ago...give or take a couple of months. Same with Indian Tandoori cooking.

One thing's for sure...food cooked over fire, coals or smoke just tastes better.

Now back to Hogan's Heros

Hey guys,

I'm looking at locating fairly equidistant between the Wiesbaden and Darmstadt military communities in an are with thousands of industrial and high tech workers and only a Chinese, a Greek, and an Italian restaurant as competition. Sound like a dream? Well, the cheapest property I've seen so far is just under $1 million. And I haven't even started hassling with the well known German bureaucrats yet.

I'm still working the angle hard but I may be doomed to staying in investment banking. I'll be in touch as the thing progresses.

Euro, have you given thought towards syndicating a small group of investors? Perhaps include an attorney who could help navigate the red tape.

Leasing space is like leasing cars: it's a less expensive up-front option but at the end of the deal, you're left with nothing - except another lease term.

I'd encourage you to pursue the property purchase.

This process is not for the weak. See your dream and make it happen!

got points Top Chef.

what about running something at the numerous festivals around there. Seems there is one going on every weekend and it would be a way to develop some experience and a reputation while the funding gets sorted out.

If you're not experienced at Q, it definitely takes practice, but you'd find with a Cookshack and this forum, all the answers would be available.

Smokin'

Hey,Euro.....Why don't you find one of Stogie's posts on here and email him....He is also an investment banker and researched this at length before writing his business plan....He is a competition cook and a long time follower of Q....He built his plan around doing an American franchise,Famous Dave's.

Euro,

Whoa, where to begin? At first glance it seems that a Q-Joint in Gut Ault Deutschland seems like a no brainer..., I read this several days ago and at first came to the no brainer conclusion. Then I thought about it for a while and have reached the following;

Germans do not like eating their food with their hands. This is considered to be untermensch (part of the National German Angst Problem). This is best envisaged by hanging outside a McDonald's and watch how many wander outside eating a burger! Most Germans will eat a Pizza with a fork and knife! Q is a very primal type of cuisine and both hands have a lot to do with the dining experience. I am not sure that you could convince the average citizen to be a really big fan of Q! The younger generation is not so inclined but you would be surprised at how eating habits can be habitually transmitted from generation to generation.
Your only consolation is the U.S. Armed Forces within the area..., about 30% to 45% of the base personel will probably need at least a monthly Q hit..., I would suggest that the traffic would be heaviest on the usual Friday and Saturday nights.
Take out may be a great idea..., who cares if you eat with your hands in your own house?
Well that's my 0.02 Euros on the subject. I really do think that you have struck an European nerve..., now just how do you go about adjusting cultural norms with good old Q taste!

Gilly