Help!!! I'm a new Cookshack Owner (formerly commercial traditional pit then SP)

When you move to a new cooker, you know there will be a learning curve.

Here are some thoughts until some Pros jump in. FYI, I moved this to the Pro forum but the activity here can be somewhat spares (usually people are busy at work). You can also call CS.

Do a search on "smoke ring". What is happening is that unlike a wood burner, with the electric element, you don't generate enough nitrates/nitrites to "cure" the brisket (that's what a SR is). You can add a couple of chunks of charcoal and it will do it. You can also use Tender Quick, but that's curing the brisket to get a ring. It's just a little food science. Realize the SR is ONLY cosmetic, but some customers who don't know better think it means something else.

do NOT use the auto settings. I haven't used a 250 recently, so I'm not sure what they are, but I don't use the auto on mine at all.

Briskets won't be dry in a CS unless you're doing something. The usual problem is they are TOO moist of a cooker. Because of the airflow/how they are built, the moisture level in there stays high. That's why you can get almost a wet appearance on the outside. I solve this by opening the door to let some humidity out.

The electric CS were designed from the beginning as brisket smokers. They do well, you're just having a challenge getting them to be "stick burner" clones.

But never fear, we'll help.

If it's urgent, CALL CS direct, they'll help. Ask for Stuart (don't tell him I sent you).

Their goal (I only moderate the forum, I don't work for them) is your satisfaction. They will help. They also sell a lot to restaurants, so I'm sure they can help with experience with users/owners who don't post but own restaurants.

I am actually in the same position you are in and looking forward to the response. I have been vending bbq for a while and just switched to a sm150 because I bought a mobile vending truck. My briskets have been dry and the appearance is not what I like.

I have used tenderquick on a brisket, SR was great but came out really dry. I have injected the briskets and still came out dry. I am not happy about the product that is coming out of the cookshack.

FatBelly,

Well, we need details. I owned a 150 for 5 years and never cooked a dry brisket.

tell me exactly what you doing and how. Select, choice, prime? Rub, temp and duration, foil/no foil.

For appearance, what don't you like?

Need details before we can suggest changes.

If this is urgent, call CS today, they'll help you right away, but we'll help if we can, you're response may take a while while we wait for Pros.

Dear Smoking Okie and Fat Belly:

Thanks for your responses......I (it is good to know that I'm not alone)only use choice or better as my beef selection and work with a proven/major purveyor. As a note, I have never produced a dry brisket in the past even if I used a select grade in a pinch. Our rub is a simple rub that has been passed down though 4 generations of family and the flavor/color has always been great. I have historically smoked 12-14 hours on a traditional pit at 215-225 and even at 235-250 with more than satisfactory results. A southern pride rotisserie smoker hasn't changed that much. My rub turns wet with about an hours standing on the brisket and they typically go right into the pit. We never inject.

I cooked the first run and second run at 225 for 12 hours on the CS250. The internal temperature was 190-195 depending on whether I was checking the center of the flat or center of the brisket whole. The first run was a couple of 10 pounders, the second was same size but with much less wood used. The first run, bitter and dry. The second a little better (still has a little different smell/taste than what we are used to). We used Pecan with a touch of hickory and I even added a second run of smoke wood on the second brisket after about 2 hours to try and increase the level of smoke flavor. The brisket on the second run still does not have the level of smoke flavor that we prefer.

I'm still hopeful that this is just the first of more CS or FEC cookers that we own. Please educate me.....I'm used to getting rave reviews on what we do without even having to ask and I can't serve what we have cooked so far. I understand that we need to be patient and that is why we are reaching out. Thanks for all of your help.....additionally.....I'm curious....are you wrapping your briskets at some point in the cooking cycle with yoru CS cookers and do the FEC smoker/cooker's produce a better smoke flavor?......Blessings and Best regards, Chris Strictly Texas Barbeque Company

SmokinOkie,

The last two briskets that I have cooked were choice. I bought a case of packers from Restaurant Depot. First was a 14lb packer, tenderquick for 30 min, washed off tenderquick, rub with my beef rub, and injected with butchers bbq beef injection. sm150 set at 225 and a few chucks of wood and removed first rack and placed brisket on the second rack fat side up. Cooked until 160-165 then foil with beef stock and flipped fat side down. Back onto smoker and brought to about 190-195 internal on the thickest part of the flat. Off and rested for one hour fat side up again, seprated flat and point and slice up flat. Took about 14 hours. Very dry.

Second brisket cooked another day was 16lb packer. This time no tenderquick, rub with beef rub, injected butchers bbq injection, and onto the smoker at 225 with only two chucks. 165 foil with nothing added and brought to about 195-200 and rest for two hours. Still dry. I also cooked a few pork butts and chicken with this brisket and the pork and chicken came out just fine.

The sm150 is placed under a commercial exhaust vent. Any help you have would be great.

I'm no expert,but I have cooked with a few.

Like Smokin',I've cooked on a 150 for years and kept mine to cook with my FECs.

I'd take the 150 to comps-if it was legal.

Sounds like ya'll are used to cooking packers,so the change is where we are at.

Smokin' would probably say one step at a time.

Restaurant Depot has pretty consistent products.

First off,I'd tackle the "dryness issue".

I assume you have used a tested ,accurate, separate therm to check the actual cooking temp at the rack where the packer is resting?

I'd cook a couple packers,nothing else in the cooker. with only about four oz of wood-at the start.

Try the rub,and don't inject-unless you do just one of the two.

Seems to me,it took about 70 mins/lb cooking 15-16 lb slightly trimmed packers ,at the temps you are cooking.

If I foiled,I wouldn't inject ,and only do one of the two.

I assume you are running the temp probe,or a meat fork,all the way thru the flat,to see if it is too tender to pick up?

If not that tender,you are cooking a few degrees longer?

When I was happy with the tenderness,I'd wrap both in HD plastic wrap and then heavy foil,and into the cooler.

Let one set an hr and the other three hrs.

Open foil and let come close to room temp and slice across the grain ,as usual.

Compare and see where you are at.

Smoke,burnt ends,bitter,etc can be tackled after the moistness.

Hope this gives a couple thoughts,until the pros check in.

Thanks Tom I will try your suggestion. I use my digital themo and pit probe and double check with my thermapen to see what the internal is. I plan on not injecting and just rub and no foil just like you suggested.

I am pulling the brisket when the thermapen goes in like warm butter and no resistance.
The tenderness on the slices is alright with the pull test, but just too dry.

Should I cook fat up or down and should I rotate during the cook like noraml or just leave it?

Thanks again

It might be the meat. I cook the same way and have a dry brisket every once in awhile.
This is why I cook several at a contest. There is always one that is much better than the rest.
You could put a drip pan under the brisket to catch the juice. You should also have some home made beef broth. Mix the two and as you slice for serving, put the meat in the warm liquid. Brisket is like a sponge. It will soak up a lot of juice.
Just a thought!!!

Thanks to all of you for the input. I'm still a little at a loss about the dryness. Historically, we have always cooked fat side up and once we reached an internal temp of 185-190, let them rest for a while (30min-1Hr) and either wrapped them and sent them to the walk-in or to a warming cabinet. The ability to allow the briskets to automatically go to hold is a real attractive feature and the size of the 250 makes it great for keeping a steady run of brisket or ribs working while we are busy. I'm going back through some of the forum postings and it doesn't appear that I'm doing anything different than what most others are doing. I don't have a CS probe and have been depending on a digital temp pen. I'm guessing that I may have a thermostat issue with my cooker......any thoughts on any other possibilities? Thanks, Strictly Texas Barbeque Company

One additional question.....it seems as though most were using/familiar with the 150 and I'm working with a 250. Is there anyone with a lengthy history with a 200 series CS?....Thanks....STBC

STBC,

Not many with a 250 here on the forum; the ones that do seem to be pretty busy at work and stop by, just not as frequent.

I'm serious, call CS today, ask for Stuart and tell him your situation, as it's performs well for others, it could just be one or two little things you're doing that is making the difference.
Or wait for a 250 owner?

Until then I'd do a couple of things. Have you verified the temps (of the smoker)? Any probes, check them too.

I'm not a pro, and I don't have a 250. But I do cook a few. I have two cases of packers to cook for next friday night.

Have you tried taking the meat temp up another 5 dergrees, to check the results with this unit.

Does the product seem over or under done, when you go to pull it apart?

RandyE

Two things that will help with cooking briskets. First if you want a smoke ring add a couple of pieces of lump charcoal to the wood boxes. Second to add moisture to the briskets cook up at 250 rather than 225. This will help breakdown the fat and it will keep the meat moisturer.

Like Smokin' says,Stuart has cooked a lot on 150's and works with a lot more volume cooks.

Folks I know that have used 100,and 200, series feel they are very much alike.

I have cooked packers in the 150, fat up,or down and don't have a huge preference.

Heat rises,so the top shelf can be hotter from heat rising, as indirect heat.

Fat up could possibly be helpful there.

Bottom rack,nearer the firebox,could have hotter direct heat.

I'd put the fat towards the firebox.

I'm not much on flipping my packers, during the cook.

Experience will tell you ,if you need to change packers around by doneness.

Like Freddie says,bad meat could make the difference,and lower choice fits that description.

Sounds like you have better meat?

Like Randy says ,take one of the two, five degrees higher.

Unless I am hot cooking,above 300*,I very rarely see a flat come done in the 185*-190* range.

The exceptions would be prime,or wagyu-the American version of kobe.

I've seen 16 lb choice go over 200* internal,and rest 2-3 hrs in these cookers -at low cook temps.

Then,have fine briskets.

Nothing wrong with using the auto probes to manage the cook,just know where to set them.

These cookers,like many,seem to cook better with a fuller load.

They tend to cook so moist,we often need to open the door and dump moisture.

Thanks everyone for the input. I will speak with Stuart. I'm busy as well and just carving out a few moments to sit down to the computer as I can. I have thought about raising the temperature to 235 and possibly higher in order to perhaps help the drying problem. I'm glad to hear that suggestion. Typically, we have been smoking (stick-burner) at 215-225 for 14 hours with great results. I realize that the CS is a different animal....I just expected to slip right into it and we are having to get acquainted at a slower pace(kind of like dating). By the way.....thanks for the smoke ring advice. I understand that it has nothing to do with flavor however, enough people have watched TV and heard their friends talk about smoke ring that is is expected. I don't want to create it with curing salt.....I'll bet the charcoal will work fine. Again, thanks for your time....I'll let you know how the next run turns out.

Still interested in hearing form anyone using a 200 series on a daily basis....interested in recommendations on "true" load limit, positioning, etc. I have tried loading with consideration of top/middle/lower portion of the cooker...still I need to get as much out of the cooker per run as I can...

Blessings, Strictly Texas Barbeque Company

Thank you to Stuart and Tom. Great advice and I will try your suggestions

FatBellyBBQ:

Just a note to say that I ran a cooker of Brisket (Choice avg. 12-14lbs) and raised the temp to 240. I cooked to internal temp of 195 and they came out great. I'm still working on increasing the smoke flavor but was pleased with the moistness of this last run. I haven't used the Morton's Tender Quick yet. How deep of a smoke-ring does that produce. Are you just sprinkling a light coating on your briskets and then rinsing? How wide/deep of an SR are you getting. My customers really look for the SR. Thanks....STBC

You'll have to experiment with the TQ for a SR.

You can add an amount to your rub or you can put it on and rinse it off.

It will go deep, the longer you leave it. 2 min a brisket gives you a 1/4" or more. I did a test years ago on this forum just to prove it to people, that's how I know

Smokin:

Thanks for all the help. It is sincerely appreciated. Did I understand you to say 2 Minutes will give you a 1/4 Inch SR? I'm not familiar with TQ.....what is the down side in your opinion.....does it affect flavor or texture?.......Again, Thanks....STBC

P.S. I spoke with Stuart and you were correct, he was very helpful....was very familiar with the 250 and was great help regarding the smoke flavor and dryness issues!

STBC,

I put TQ on for 30 min before going into the smoker then rinsed it off and then add my rub. The brisket had 1/4" if not larger SR. The TQ gave me the best SR I have seen yet

A big drawback was the brisket was really salty but I think that was me, maybe I did not rinse the brisket off well.

I am glad you had success at the higher temp of 240. My briskets have steady become better and I am cooking at a higher temp just like you are.

I'm not a commercial user, but one thing that came to mind as I read your travails is to check your airflow. Are you inducing a draft through the CS by having the vent draw air through it (or by some other means)? Excessive airflow could certainly be responsible for dryness.

Best of luck.

Dennis

Fat Belly,

If 30 min works for you, great, but in my testing, more than 3 min gave it a TOO big SR. Really depends on how much TQ you put on, I put it on heavy in the tests.

And it will make it salty if you don't rinse it well.

Smokin'

Update on my original "Cry For Help!!" We have gotten control of the 260 and love it. Just had to "change our stickburnin minds". That coupled with some great help from the great people at Cookshack and we are "smokin"! Additionally, we have added a FEC100 to the equipment list and LOVE IT! We are turning out the prettiest ribs and brisket that we have ever turned out. We are all Cookshack and FEC converts.....Thanks everyone!

Congrats!!!!!