New catering business

I replied to your other post, so I may as well give this one a go also.

1. What size groups: Well, this is a question you have to answer for yourself. Consider your abilities, your experience, your equipment, and your time. If you plan on doing this part time, take that into consideration. If you plan on feeding larger sized groups, can you hire staff or enlist friends/family members to help? I would think over these issues and try to come up with a number you are comfortable with. An important thing to note also is that when building your reputation, don't bite off more than you can chew. IMHO, a catering business is best built with positive word of mouth, and the business wrecked just as quickly by negative. Don't take on more than you can handle, or your quality and service will suffer. For example, with the equipment I currently use, I can cater jobs up to about 500 people, serving each guest 2 types of meat, 2 side orders, and the related fixins'. I will not even bid a job with that menu if it is larger than 500 people, because I know we can't do a good job, given our equipment and staff limitations. Knowing your limits is helpful, and when you can push them. This weekend, for instance, we are partially catering a job for 850 people, but we are just providing the brisket. The event hosts are handling the sides, drinks, and service. While I won't do our standard catering menu for a group that size, by providing just the meat, I know we can handle it with capacity to spare.

2. Commercial Smokers to handle the job: There are quite a few commercial smoker manufacturers out there. Again, you have to look at the size of groups that you will be feeding. As this is a Cookshack website, and I use their Model 350, I suggest you peruse their site first. Also, you will find a call to their offices a helpful experience. They are friendly, knowledgeable, and the posts on this forum are trully indicative of the level of customer service you can expect to recieve from Cookshack. With that said, do your homework, other commercial smoker manufacturers include but are not limited to: Southern Pride, Ole' Hickory, Klose, Traeger, and Alto-Shaam. A couple of notes on these, Cookshack also represents Ole' Hickory, so I assume your call to Cookshack can cover this also. If you are considering a BBQ operation only, I would tend to discount the Alto-shaam, as this smoker-oven appears to me to be greared more towards a full line restaurant, and while they make good equipment, Alto-shaams are pretty high dollar. Check 'em out anyway for the sake of being thorough. Also, make sure any smoker you consider is NSF certified. Many health departments will require that. Speaking of which...

3. Permits and licenses: This is yet another area you'll have to do some homework in, as regulations vary from state to state, to county, to city. My first call would be to whatever Health department has jusitiction over the area in which you wish to serve food. This can be either a county, parish, city, or otherwise depending on where you live. If you wish to serve food in multiple areas of jurisdiction, call them all. Get the numbers from the phone book. You may get directed to different numbers a couple of times, but eventually, you'll get the right people. Once you get the right people, explain what sort of business you are wishing to start, and ask them to mail you a copy of any current regulation guides that apply to your business. Also, if you are dealing with a city or county office, ask them if there are any further state regulations you need to be aware of. If you are dealing with a city or county agency, I'd call the state to be sure, regardless of what your local office says. Sometimes these bureaucracies aren't always on the same page, but if you do the homework, you are covered.

Once you've coved the health regs, yet another call to the local government is in order. You should find out if a business or vendor license is required, and the steps involved to obtain a sales tax ID number. Unlike the Health dept. regs, the local people should have a pretty good idea of any additional state permits or forms you may need to fill out. In my experience, they seem to have the way you pay taxes a lot more ironed out between agencies than how you serve safe food. Hmmmmmm....

Along these same lines, it's not a bad idea at all to consult a qualified attorney. A lawyer versed in these matters may at least save you some paperwork, and may at most save your financial butt! Along with the permit stuff a qualified lawyer can help you with selecting the proper insurance for this venture, and there may be some liability benefits if you were to incoprorate or become an LLC. On liability, don't even think of trying this without some sort of insurance! You can do everything right, serve safe food, comply with all regulations, and someone could still sue you. Insurance covers your A**! Also, having an attorney set this deal up for you provides a little protection, because if you are clear and upfront with your lawyer about what you want he/she to do, and what you are going to do, and somehow a judgement is made against you, there's a good chance you may have a malpractice claim against your lawyer. Assuming, of course, you followed the regs, had the permits, etc. I'm sorry I'm in such a litigious state of mind, but I like better safe than sorry, and there are fat people suing McD's, BK, and others right now for food that was probably served within all of these guidelines. ARGGGGGGGHHH!!!

I'll tell you this, Blazing: I'm doing something similar to you in the NY area, and I feel crunched between a rock and a Cookshack...

I want to do small scale, part time BBQ catering. Maybe 25 to 100 people. To get a catering license, you simply pay a small fee, attend the food safety course, and show access to a commercial kitchen. This last one is the killer. For those who want to do small-scale work, you can't afford a kitchen of your own. And finding a kitchen you can use is a big, complex problem. I've been following a ton of leads, but no luck yet. And if you don't have a legal operation, how can you get insurance or pay taxes?? I don't want to go under the radar, but I'm finding that LOTS of caterers around her do just that. Main problem: finding access to a commercial kitchen at reasonable cost. They won't let us work out of the house, or build a business kitchen in a home...

I'm think of a truck as mobile kitchen that will pass inspection as one option. Another is a local men's club, a Moose Lodge, a decommissioned firehouse. Long stroy short, finding a way to go legit is tough... for me, so far.

would love other ideas on how to crack this nut.

BBQ Matt ---
That was an outstanding reply! In fact, do you mind if I archieve that info? The question(s) Blazing put for get asked repeatedly here and your response says it "ALL"

woodburner ----
Here's a silly question: Do you have a garage or some portion of your house you could dedicate towards a prep kitchen? If so, check out any zoming restrictions which may apply. If you clear that hurdle, your next step is equipment--- prep table, refridgeration, stove/oven and a ware/dishwashing area --- all of which can be purchased at auctions, or used through a dealer...at 25 cents or less, on the dollar vs. new.
Just a thought.

topchef: Yes, I would be willing to convert my garage, but the health inspector said that I couldn't use a residence for a commerical kitchen. I suppose I should check the codes myself, but I would expect the village to deny that request...

I also thought about getting a commercial space and building something like a "4-way" kitchen that I could promote to small area caterers... I believe there are MANY in Westchester County where I live. Could have multiple, locked dry goods cabinets, multiple fridges, designed for mutli use. Problem is, I would be offering these illegal operators the chance to go legit and, in the process, give up most of their income, when you add up the caterer license fee, the insurance, the kitchen rental, and the income tax. I think the really small scale guys would not bother if they had to pay all the costs that a legit, larger caterer must pay. It's a bad situation, it seems to me (as a newcomer to the issue).

woodburner ~
I'm puzzled as to why a converted garage wouldn't comply with health codes. I would approach your zoning board administrator to see if it were possible. If you get a green flag, then try the health dept. again. If it's separate and meets code...what would the objection be? It's not as though you're extracting Plutonium and smoking brisket in the same room

A+ for creative thinking regarding the co-op catering kitchen, BUT I think you'd be opening a Pandora's Box in terms of liability, insurance & maintenance issues. I would shy away from it.

In some states, it is illegal to use a private residence for commercial food production or storage of food products for commercial use. I suppose if Woodburners had an attached garage, they would consider it his residence. If the garage is detached, then he has to overcome the zoning issues.

As for the shared-use kitchen idea; do a yahoo search for "kitchen incubator", then do another for "shared-use kitchen". You will find that there are community kitchens available for use by the hour. These kitchens are usually geared towards FDA regulated activities, such as canning and packaging, but some offer space for catering. If you are lucky enough to have one in your area (I am not) you're in business.

If you are interested in building a shared-use kitchen, there are some very informative websites out there with loads of info.

Aw, jeez, I wanted to stay outta here after that bitto crap, but I would like to tell you my experience with this sort of thing.

I smoke my fish in the garage and process it both before and after in my galley. I painted the place white and took down all dust catchers this season. I put up a curtain between the living room and the galley. There's a door in the galley that leads to the garage and it's always open. I have 7 cats, 2 dogs, and a goat. Before I begin work each day, I don a hair net and latex gloves. The floors are scrubbed twice a day and water bags are hung to keep out flies. The big garage door is open on hot days and the animals can wander freely, but the product is in the enclosed and sealed CS units. The galley door is closed for this segment of the Kipper's journey.

This year, I put a huge sign out front: Worlds Best Kipper! 20 Bucks! (and in small letters: I will kipper your sport-caught fish.) Also an indicator that RV's can turn around in my driveway.

Well, here comes the inspector. "Lemme see the operation, Andi!" So, I show him and he walks away with PAID FOR Kipper! Of course, some fresh outta the smoker helped!

The deal is: I can legally sell my salmon out of paper bags, but I cannot pressure pack or vac-pack...legally, not without special licensing that is a red tape nightmare and ancient for today's technology. But since I say this is someone elses fish, the inspector looks the other way. I inspect each and every pack with a magnifying glass. He was very much impressed with my operation.

With the fiscal climate in most states right now, cottage industries are being much encouraged. They are in mine, I know that. Why, the Dept. Of Economic Devo. in Soldatna will buy your gas for you to collect Birch Sap, or pick Blueberries! And anything value-added, such as what I do, is welcomed and supported. "Value Added" is the key phrase in todays wholesale/retail food production and distribution.

Did I make any sense?

These are great posts you guys, and all very helpful.

Topchef: I will go back to the zoning board guys and try to see if I could use the garage. It's attached to the house, but not accessible from the house (if that makes sense). You walk out onto the porch to enter the garage through its own door. I think they simply don't want commercial enterprises in residential neighborhoods...

KG: Yes, someone just today mentioned the NY state has grants for incubators, and we chatted about the idea that the multi-kitchen could be described as an incubator for new, small caterers! Maybe I can get a grant to build the kitchen!! I'll be search online as you suggested, too.

Andi: As usual I love your descriptions of life in your neck of the woods... you know, for each story I paint a picture in my mind of what your operations look like... not trying to be funny, but would I be on target if I asked if your town is like what they had on that TV show Northern Exposure?? I loved that show. Oh well...

Topchef- If you wish to archive, please feel free. In reading it over again, it is kinda long! Oh well.

quote:

Originally posted by woodburner:
[qb] I will go back to the zoning board guys and try to see if I could use the garage. [/qb]

It was my impression that theHealth Dept was the agency vetoing the garage idea. If you live in a strictly residential neighborhood, a catering kitchen may be a non-conforming use. You can't do any harm checking again though...good luck. Maybe you should bring along some of Andi's Kippered Salmon

Woodburner: You have no idea how realistic that show was to our way of life! Even the cow tossing, which reminds me, this years Pumpkin Toss should be thought about. Last year we built a catapult with a counterweight which was fine. We got to toss, but not compete, because our catapult was on wheels. Dang! Forgot that rule. This year, though...

The D.E.C. (Dept. Of EnvironMENTAL Convicts) handles food service establishments up here. They are a loose group with little funding. They tried to cut out food service inspections, but the public said a loud NO.

Blazin'

You've got some great replies in here, and these are some pros, so if you have more questions, I'd reply here and not in the open forum. You posted the original question, but haven't replied to these posts. Do you have specific questions?