question to all those who own a trailer.

bbqnj,
We use the SM150 to hold. We also have a steam table in our trailer tech, but don't use it much.
Our state inspector said as long as you hold everything at a safe temperature, it would be ok. We don't cook anything at a commissary kitchen. We do everything in the trailer, we have a SM150 and a FEC100. We use the comissary for water and waste water disposal. The inspector said anything that was prepared in our trailer was okay. We could deliver using our truck and a cambro, as long as the temperature was safe.
Do you have a way to move the meat from the comissary safely to your trailer? Keep it at a cold temperature or a hot temperature for the amount of time to get it to the safe temp in the trailer?
The SM150 works great as a holding unit, and it cooks real well too.
Good luck. Don't sell stuff you wouldn't eat.
Peggy

Hi Peggy, Thanks for your reply. I didnt even think about having the cookshack serve as a holding oven. Here i am on ebay looking at prices for them alto-shaam models. They are pretty pricey just to hold the food. I havent really yet decided on what my menu will be. I am tossed up between going bbq or going kabobs. My plan was to cook all the meat products at the commisary in an fec. cool the meat in the fridge and transport them to the trailer in a cooler, reheat them slowly in the oven, and when it comes to serving, toss it on the grill, finish with sauce. The same can go with kabobs. hmmm.

There are pictures on this forum of a guy in south Florida with a licensed zinc shack on wheels that holds everything in Cambros. That would be my approach. If necessary stick a few heated gel packs in there.

I've got a SYBBQ stick burner, so I hold my food in the 3 food wells, in the large grill with a small fire and in the warming box above the smoker.

I worked with our county Dept. of Health to get our trailer into compliance.

We live in one of the larger townships in the county with 300 households and 800 residents, so we have no Dept of Health at that level. I am our township's chairman, and we seem to spend most of our time and budget on keeping our 30 miles of roads graveled, graded and cleared of snow.

Establish a good working relationship with your Dept. of Health, and get used to abiding by alot of government rules.

Good luck! Roger

bbqnj,
to see our trailer tech rig pics just hit search while you are in pros. type in rig pics we hope. pics will come up.
while we do have a 3 well steam table in the rig we use the sm150 to hold food while things are going in the fec.
you can make a full size disposable aluminum pan fit into the 150 by bending up the edges and it will fit perfectly.
before you spend money on an alto sham look into seeing if cookshack has any reconditioned sm150's. the cost will be less than new and they carry a warranty just the same as new.
to date we have never used our steam table but it is there just in case.
by the way for electrics we are running two honda eu3000is. only thing that can't run is the a/c but it is a waste anyway as the a/c just goes up the hood. hindsite is always 20/20 but man when i think of the bucks i could have saved lol.
hope it helps some
jack
ps. nice part about the fec and 150 combo is versatility
pps. i think you will find alex alverez at trailer tech really ez to deal with. he came up with the idea to eleminate the under counter reefer and freezer and changed over to an upright 22cu ft artic air reefer and 7 cu ft artic air freezer. by the way we are towing our 8 x 18 with a dodge 1500. even in high winds it doesn't sway or ossiclet(heck cant spell means goes into a tank slapper) but be aware you are running into hurricane season and that can cause delays like what happened to us. all in all i am very well pleased with their product
ppps. ok bear with me it has been a long hard day. our rig is listed with the state as an "mfd" mobile food dispensary. means we can cook anything anytime anywhere. if we had gotten a cartering rating then all food would have had to be prepared at a commissary kitchen. the only thing we need the commissary for is potable water and grey water dump and food storage if needed. perhaps you state offers a similar rating. might be worth while to look into
ok last thing i promise!!!! i saw the grill thing. get with your fire department. you may be required to add a fire suppressor into your hood system. since we have no grill or fryer we were not required to add this but for even a 5 foot hood the cost is in the thousands. and this is the last add on i promise

Here's a link to the photos:

Greyhound Rig

smokin
thanks for the quick link
sure is funny seeing 2 year old pics
weird part is the stainless steel still is as shiny as those but then again as i am sure you found out with your rig pride in ownership is everything. well that plus peggy with her uzi
bbqnj
hope it gives you some ideas
jack

Smokin,
Thanks for the quick link. That's so bleak looking now. We have our signage. We have the logo outside on the trailer. We got signs made up that say "BBQ TODAY" also with the logo. I place my little chicken that was made by a great forum member in the window. We put out a little camp table and 2 chairs. We got a black board (dry erase with wild colors)to list menu items. We attach it to the trailer using industrial strength velcro, available at Staples, and remove it before towing.
We're learning all along, and thank you all for all the help!
Peggy

"eleminate the under counter reefer and freezer and changed over to an upright 22cu ft artic air reefer and 7 cu ft artic air freezer."

What was the rationale behind upright vs under the counter? More bang for your buck? Space considerations?

freebird,
since mine was a custom unit i knew i would no way no how ever have a fryer. as a chef i could figure out expansion and possible growth (as our rig sets now we could do 1000 covers per day if needed). i added the steam table and the chilled table just for that expansion. alex, being the good designer that he is, suggested that i go with the upright reefer and the larger freezer based off of my drawings to him (that is the nice part about running an engineering dept for 14 years. making scale working drawings is no big deal for me) by placing the fec and sm over the left side wheels and deleting the grill and fryers it opened up the space for the reefers. an added benefit is towing stability as the weight of these units counterbalances the potable and greywater tanks which are directly across from them on the right hand side under the triple and hand sinks.
that in a nutshell is how we arrived at our design and also explains why i am so well pleased with trailer tech. by me being a chef for years coupled with the engineering background before that and alex's ability to design trailers (his neatest one to me is the one with the brick pizza oven in it) it was very smooth and he even custom fabbed the rear mounts of the fec for the wheel wells. his and our only snag was 4 hurricanes 2 years ago but we got it after hurricane 3 and 2 days before number 4 so i think they still did a great job.
jack
but i still didn't look far enough ahead to delete the a/c

mnhogfarmer is so right! Your inspector can keep you informed on the latest rules, especially if you're just starting out. Try to keep a good relationship there. The inspector is my best teacher and I've even gotten to look forward to inspections. I always feel like I've gotten what I consider a $200 seminar! This is the state inspector in Florida.
Peggy

Just a couple of points after reading this thread.

Shaams are easy to get used at VERY reasonable prices. Look on Ebay.

When I was looking at refrigeration and asking a lot of people about different brands, there were a lot of different opinions, as one might expect. However, there were more negative comments about Arctic Air than all others put together. I express no opinion on whether the brand is good or bad, as I have no experience. Just passing on what I heard.

So far Arctic Air is working real well for us and it's plugged in and plugged out all the time. In a trailer the current is shut off and then back on, so I feel it's pretty hard on an appliance.
But I do think it's a good idea to check out different brands.
Peggy

I have the 22' Arctic Air fridge, and it is a dandy. Priced right, high quality, and NSF approved. Those big pans that look like commercial browny sheet pans fit in them perfectly to keep it clean inside.

When you set up your rig remember; It's your competion that will be watching you, determined to catch you, turn you in, or worse, ruin your reputation.

Good luck! Roger

mnhogfarmer,
hey thanks for jogging my memory. current price on either a 22 cu ft upright reefer or freezer from artic air is right at 995 now. but what really jogged me was the part about your competitors. what has been a really good point for us (both in sales and inspections) is everything we have is nsf approved right down to the smokers. even though florida is a not an nsf required state it gives our inspectors and more importantly our customers peace of mind that we went the extra mile on equipment by ensuring everything is nsf approved. and you are right we had a good one where someone tried to ruin our reputation. the inspector sent just happened to be the lady that approved our preconstruction drawings. even though we were busy we invited her in and gave her full run. the 1st thing she did was open the doors under the hand and triple sinks. she started laughing and told the lady who ran the market "there was no doubt in my mind that jack would have the only mobile rig where the floors UNDER the sinks are polished and the plumbing fixtures are dust free on the bottoms!!!"
needless to say that ended that little episode (mainly because i could never get the competors name that did this act. i believe the legal term is tortuitist enfringement upon a contract and slander at the least)
by the way even though we fall under juristiction of the dept of business and professional requlation we have allowed a dept of agriculture inspector to look us over and then they appologized when they found out our dpbr rating. never hurts to let any inspector look you over as i am quite sure they talk to one another and to be honest we are just proud of our rig and our product.
jack
ps. before i forget i love your hedly lamar quote

quote:

Originally posted by bbqnj:
[qb] it looks like i may be starting my bbq business sooner as i thought. my township is not as strict as i thought. i guess it depends on who you ask on a particular day. them state folks are funny like that.
[/qb]

Hi!

This may be a non-issue, but the quote above concerns me just a bit. You are going to want to make sure you are in full compliance with all local codes, regardless of whom you speak with on a particular day.

The problem is that some government officials are more strict than others. Also, some regulations can be interpereted in multiple ways. Personally, I would look to exceed any regs you can. That way, if the inspector that says "such and such is OK" gets fired or quits, you are still in the clear if you get a really strict inspector.

The dollar costs of not covering your butt in a mobile foodservice situation could be huge. If it's mobile, I'm guessing you will be relying on just 2-4 days a week to make your profit. If you have $500 into food costs for an individual day, and an inspector forces you to toss the meat, your sunk for more than just that day.

I don't want to discourage you, but you should be able to cover your butt regardless of who is watching over you.

Just my 2 cents..

Matt

As for the Artic Air part of this thread, I have an Arctic Air freezer. They are cheap and ugly. And... I haven't had a single problem with mine yet! I generally think you get what you pay for, but so far, I've gotten way more than I paid for from my Artic Air freezer.

YMMV

Matt

Turning in your competition:

We sell buthered and packaged pork and chicken that we raise on our farm, at several Farmers Markets within a 75 mile radius of our farm.

Our meat is USDA inspected at the plant where it is butchered. It can be sold across state lines, anywhere, because it has the USDA "bug" (circle) on our label, along with the plant code number.

Another vendor from out-of-state, brought his meat over into our state, that was not USDA inspected; it was State Inspected; meaning it can be sold only in the state it was butchered and inspected in.

He was turned in, BECAUSE---

With state funds being decreased, the Dept. of Ag inspectors that do spot checks at the Markets were understaffed, and he hadn't been caught in years.

If a vendor (caterer too?) sells a product that is out of compliance, his liability insurance may be NULL and VOID. The Farmers Market could now be made liable, and we are members of the market, thus making us liable for his shoddy compliance.

As PC and Matt have eluded to in their posts, I would go above and beyond, something may otherwise go unchecked.

Good luck! Roger

As for the "township not being too strict", each area interprets the laws differently. I have owned several auto body shops through the years.
What was "OK" in one city, might not be "OK" in another. Case in point. the fire departments all use the same rule book, but interrupt the rules differently. Some areas would allow extension cords to be used. Another fire dept, would look at the same rule and tell me that the extensions were "NOT" allowed. Same rules, different person interpreting them. Better to be ready for any city you want to cook in. Better not have to be shut down with a whole bunch of cooked food.

mnhogfarmer,
you bring up a good point about usda. not many people know that meat that does not cross state lines does not have to be usda inspected. but i follow the advice our family attorney gave us which is "the resonable rule of law". so by following his advice i just never buy products that are not usda. if it makes his job ez it makes my life ez. on our turn in thing from what we have been able to track down the person who made the complaint did so after the market manager refused his request to vend. kind of a jealously thing we think.
fast freddie,
good point on the extension cords. the state of florida does not permit these in any food establishment wiether mobile or stationary

hi everyone, thanks for all the informative replies. what i meant about the 'not so strict'part of my post was that i found out the neighboring town(literally across the street from my house since i live right on the border),i can store a trailer and be allowed to have it as my commisary just as long as it passes all laws and regulations etc...where as the county i live on, the commisary has to be a fixed establishment etc...

question to greyhounds, your trailer looks awesome. does the ventilation hood really suck up all the inside air? is it possible to have a wood fired grill in place of the stoves?


thanks.

bbqnj,
thanks. hope the pics will help you.
as far as the hood goes yes it does suck and suck hard i might add. last summer when the ambient air temp outside was 90 degrees with the hood going i was very comfortable and to be honest even during the day with heat indexes of 110 it was very livable.
the hood dimensions if remember right are 5 foot long x 3 feet in width x 2 feet deep which is 30 cubic feet. the distance from the front edge of the hood to the edge of the a/c 24" and that outlet is centered in the 5 foor direction. therefore any a/c air comes out,goes to the hood and is ejected at a high rate of speed. the total cubic feet volumn of the trailer is 936 so the hood represents about 3-4% of the total volumn and it is moving air.(maybe a better way to view just how much air it can move is this. the bbq joint i work at part time has a kitchen 12 foot by 25 foot and the hood is only one foot longer than the one in my rig. that hood handles a 6 burner stove,table top gas grill and a small 1500 pound capacity southern pride smoker)
as far as the wood fired grill goes if you can dream it trailer tech can build it but now insurance and fire suppressor systems might be a whole new ball game. at the very least where we live for sure you will have to get a suppressor in your hood in addition to one or perhaps two drop line direct nozzles directly over the grill. from my memory of setting up a new restraurant when i was chefing we were also required to have an insulated non-flammable wall panel in place and a 3 foot set back from the wall to the nearest part of the grill and it was gas fired. that question is best answered by your fire marshall. but i know if trailer tech can put brick pizza ovens in rigs a wood grill would be cake for them.
by the way sure wished i was under your commisary rules!!!!! those are great and i know they help you considerably. when we are inspected we have to tow the rig 30 miles to our commisary so not having to do that alone will save you time and money
hope it helps some
get with your fire marshall
jack
ps. you will likely hear the terms NFPA 80 and NFPA 101 in reqards to a wood fired grill or smoker. i used to have those regs memorized when i was running an engineering dept as the two do conflict at times and then in cases they conflict with ul ratings. 80 was primarily fire safety from the stand point of structure and 101 was primarily to do with life safety.

Hey Jack, what was that about a brick oven????
I am building one in my yard this spring...but a mobile one? Inquiring minds......

bbqnj,
Just get everything in writing in regards to anything being approved, with the signature of the person who gives you approval.

Kinsman,
The wood=fired pizza oven was mounted in a trailer-tech. We had to wait for our unit because of delays on the pizza mobile not to mention the multi-hurricanes that season!

hey everyone, thanks for all the replies. your suggestions are very well appriciated.

hey kinsman, what plans are you usng for your brick oven? there is a awesome group in yahoo called brickovens, plenty of knowledgable folks over there in brick oven building. i also plan on building one in a few weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by Kinsman:
[qb] Hey Jack, what was that about a brick oven????
I am building one in my yard this spring...but a mobile one? Inquiring minds...... [/qb]

Yeah, I had to wait on mine on account of bad storms too.

On the original question, I use a steam table to hold foods, at least for now. I have a fryer and had to install a type K fire suppression system in the hood. My own county did not require this but other counties do and I want to be prepared to satisfy the pickiest of inspectors, so I can go anywhere.

I have been looking at a Pompeii-style oven. FornoBravo dot com has a forum too. I will check out the Yahoo forums, I need all the help I can get!

Basically I will build the base and the cladding of stone because...well, I live in the Rocky mountains, and my home sits on ten and a half acres, ten of which are solid granite. So for me to use block or brick would be a waste of money, and kinda like totin' sand to the beach. The actual oven will be firebrick; the dome will be circular and about four feet inside diameter.

Kinsman,
Do you tow all this stone around in your trailer?
Did trailer tech have to put in a super reinforced floor?
What size truck do you use to tow all this?
Peggy

It was somebody else who saw a TT with brick oven...but it sure got me thinkin'!

No way, Peggy...this monster is going to be in my yard. You guys come on up and have a slice this summer! We can go fishin' for trout, the homebrew is on me, and we can set up pickin' and grinnin' half the night!

BBQNJ- I am going to build something like the Pompeii Oven from forno Bravo.

will you be using this primarily for pizza? if for bread, you may want to add some boatloads of insulation or something.

check out traditionaloven dot come. i orderd his cd and donated him some money. i got the cd in a few days. it has like 100 pictures of his brick oven. the yahoo group is called brick oven. there is a famous brick oven builder on the forum named alan scott. he has book out called brick oven builder or something like that. you can find plenty of brick oven projects over there.

quote:

Originally posted by Kinsman:
[qb] It was somebody else who saw a TT with brick oven...but it sure got me thinkin'!

No way, Peggy...this monster is going to be in my yard. You guys come on up and have a slice this summer! We can go fishin' for trout, the homebrew is on me, and we can set up pickin' and grinnin' half the night!

BBQNJ- I am going to build something like the Pompeii Oven from forno Bravo. [/qb]

can i come too????
jack
ps. had to ask. her truck is the tow truck for the rig. i am strong but gessz give me a break cause i don't know where to find a harness maker with enough leather to make me a towing strap. although i would make a cool pic kinda like fiddler on the roof

Kinsman,
I've never been to Montana or trout fished. It sounds so much like a good thing! If Jack hitches up his harness now, we might be there sometime in August.
What a nice invitation!
And we did use the steam tables a few times. It was very hard to regulate the temperature as I remember. So now it's used more as a shelf for me to put bread loaves and sauce. I also use the table as a handy place for my menu list, pricing, inventory lists, etc.
Peggy