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10 replies

This is your brain on BBQ...hellllllp

FM Former Member
Greetings everyone...
This is going to be long, hope you have the patience to go through it all. I wouldn't if I were you!
From poking the forums it seems that some of you are true pros and we'd love to learn from your mistakes Razzer

After long research all over the web, looking through the cookshack forums extensively, we're seriously considering a FEC500 to be the heart of a new bbq restaurant here in California. We're new to the restaurant industry, but have an incredible chef and an incredible location that together we feel cannot lose, and could use all the advice we can get!

I apologize in advance for my serious ignorance, I'm still learning. Here goes:


Smoker Size: The capacity of the location we're looking at is roughly 220 people, and we expect to be very busy, 75k people live within a 3 miles radius and the traffic count is 25k cars per day. We hope to serve 500 plates a day? We expect ribs, chicken, and tri tip or brisket to be the foundation of the menu, and would like to put the FEC to use with other misc things like corn on the cobb, pies, turkey legs, pizzas, etc. At first I was thinking of the FEC300, and adding another down the road, but now think the 500 might be a better choice for how little the cost diff. between the two is. Does the 500 sound about right?

Ventilation:
There is currently no ventilation in the building, so the downside is cost, but the upside is we don' have to pay labor and we have total control over style/size/capacity/efficiency etc.

What type of machine the FEC500 will be classified as in California? Fire Marshall Bill will be out to get us!

There are no pics of the cookshack hoods available, so we're trying to get an idea of the setups available to vent the FEC500. Any info/literature/pic you can tell/send me on vent items would be great.

I saw somewhere that cookshack has a study available showing it does not produce much grease?

Whats the best option to vent a FEC? It's own hood into the master vent system or it's own hood/duct all the way out of the building? As I understand it we don't want too much negative pressure pulling from the FEC since it may disturb the smoking process?

Other equipment? What are the basics you use for a good bbq operation(besides the smoker)? Dishwasher advice? Best way to hold cooked food? Flat grill? Fridge/freezer capacity?

Misc
Ribs: We're thinking pork... spare ribs instead of baby back for the best bang for the buck...?

There's a small capacity grease trap now installed, any info on what capacity we should upgrade to?

We plan on using US Foods as the main source of meat etc... any thoughts here?

There's 4 of us, from what I understand we should form a corporation vs. an LLC?

We'd like a good price on a new FEC300 or 500..who has good prices/service?

The lease is very high, we hope to hit a 15% net profit after all expenses?

We'd like a good price on a new FEC300 or 500..who has good prices/service

These are the major things on my mind at the moment...I know there's about a 1000 other categories I missed. Again, I'll take ANY advice I can get!
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FM Former Member
You might want to consider two of the smaller FEC's vs one large unit. If your one large unit broke down you'd be screwed. Redundancy helps.

Your dishwasher will be determined by the number of racks you need to process in an hour, and also by your health department. You might get a good lease through US Foods since they'll be supplying your chemicals. Good luck with US Foods.

Your health department will have thoughts they will share with you whether you like it or not regarding the grease trap. Smiler

You thinking spare ribs is good as long as your customers think the same. Give the people what they want.

If I were you, and this is based some on what seems to be a limited amount of experience on your part, I would consider the commercial CS smokers pretty throughly. I think they offer greater ease of use, lower cost of operation vs the FEC. Then I would supplement them with a traditional convection oven for baked items.

Lastly I would suggest Cookshack for their excellent prices and service.
FM Former Member
Lots of questions.

First, read through this forum. There is MORE free help than you can read in a day

Two, call CS up and talk with John. Sure he's a "sales" guy, but he's helped lots of people with this and in fact, he'll know if there is someone in CA using a 500/750 in a restaurant.

BEFORE you ventilate, check with the FD & HD, THEY will categorize your smoker, not CS. Good news it's UL/NSF listed so it passes that mark (many smokers don't)

I think you need to plan out capacity and temps you'll need. How long will you be open, what will you serve (will lunch be different from dinner) more sandwiches or plates?

You start talking pizza's or corn, they like higher temps. If you're cooking brisket for 12 hours, you won't be able to cook pizza at that temp. The FE can easily do that temp range.

Do YOU have any experience with smoking or the chef? I don't mean to ask, but just want to know so I can advise you the right way.

You might want to get the unit ahead of time and practice your recipes/methods.

Ask away, I'm sure you have more questions, we'll help if we can.
FM Former Member
SmokinOkie:
I understand the FD and HD is going to be who categorizes the FEC.. that's what I was asking, if anyone knows what they will classify it as here in CA, not cookshack. I think this will be a huge factor in how we ventilate..whether into the main vent system or not.
We hope to get the FEC 3-4 months before opening doors so we have lots of time to play with it beforehand. I have NO experience smoking, that's the chefs dept.
We probably will not do a lot of brisket because of the long smoking time needed.
FM Former Member
Don't let the time scare you from brisket, I'd say let the market tell you. If you do it, and do it well, it might be THE thing that makes you better (hard for some Q places to do it).

For California, I'd call for Stuart or John. They do this all the time and might have the quickest answer. John doesn't come to the forum and Stuart does rarely.

It might be more a locality kind of thing, just call the Fire Dept, they're usually the sticklers on the vent hood (grease, etc).

And don't call the "chef" a "chef" if he's doing Q Big Grin He's a Pit Master (although if he's trained as a chef, he'll want to be a chef, but I don't want a chef cooking MY Q) LOL
FM Former Member
My suggestion to think about two(or three) smokers was intended to adress the cooking time difference between cuts of meat, and also the different levels of demand.

Imagine loading 1 smoker with pork shoulders at 8pm. The CS will cook and hold those until you arrive the next morning at 8am, ready to pull. This smoker can now be used for reheats to start the lunch service.

Second smoker was partially loaded at 8pm with brisket. The next morning at 8am, you throw in your ribs for a ~5 hour cook. Both should be done about the same time. You can reload with ribs and have them out by 8pm if needed to meet demand.

Third smoker is loaded with sausage, meatloaf, bologna, chicken at 8am which should be ready for lunch. You had this smoker open overnight for additional capacity if it's needed, daily or on a seasonal basis.

You can do all of this on an FEC but it will require more monitoring and a lot of swapping out of product possibly. And you don't have the redundancy. Two SM160's and a single SM260 would cost about $15,500, while the FEC500 is $13,500. In theory you'd have about the same capacity either way. The FEC might also force you to have someone in the restaurant overnight for monitoring, adding to the long term cost. You should ask about that aspect when you talk to CS.

Theres a lot going on at 8am in your place. You should maybe go in at 6am tomorrow.
FM Former Member
quote:
Originally posted by Todd G.:
..... The FEC might also force you to have someone in the restaurant overnight for monitoring, adding to the long term cost. You should ask about that aspect when you talk to CS.


If an FEC requires overnight monitoring because of mechanical or functional issues, then I would get a Southern Pride or Ole Hickory. If the issue is temperature logging and monitoring, then you can purchase a temperature/data logger to do that.
FM Former Member
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Bugg:
quote:
Originally posted by Todd G.:
..... The FEC might also force you to have someone in the restaurant overnight for monitoring, adding to the long term cost. You should ask about that aspect when you talk to CS.


If an FEC requires overnight monitoring because of mechanical or functional issues, then I would get a Southern Pride or Ole Hickory. If the issue is temperature logging and monitoring, then you can purchase a temperature/data logger to do that.


Some areas require physical monitoring of any open flame device, even a traditional pit. But I was thinking of the possibility of feed failures. Though rare I'm sure, any pellet based smoker is bound to have them from time to time. You won't find a better pellet burner than an FEC, but nobody is perfect.

Additionally, coming in to a restaurant in the AM to find a data log that does nothing more than tell you that last night you generated 500# of waste because a voltage spike/power outage/thermostat failure etc occured causing the smoker to shut down is a bad feeling. Not having enough product to open that day just makes it worse. It's not common admittedly, but having a janitor type doing clean up on cook nights until 2-4am is not altogether a bad idea. And the brand of smoker dosen't make much of a difference, it just changes the things which are most likely, depending on fuel.
Last edited by Former Member
FM Former Member
The potential is always there, but the question would be when/how often.

I think it's more an issue of what you're comfortable with. Tending, not tending. Since CS sells them to restaurants, I think a lot of owners have voted with their money and bought them, so they don't seem to have an issue.

Can a pellet jam? Sure. But in a 500 there are 2 burners and a 750 there are three so a jam would hit one. And if you know the issues with that, there are ways to prevent it. I've NEVER had a jam in my FE in 4+ years and its the same auger.

I guarantee that they don't have someone tending them all night in the FE's that have been in use in restaurants.

But to suggest an OH or SP is a better option for overnight needs a little more detail as they are electronic and have gears and can just as easily break down when not watched, so I'm not sure of the corrallary of because it has to be monitored overnight, go with something else.

Oh, and I would add they are gas assist if you want to run it all night or you'll have to be there to load logs in for fuel.

See there's no perfect answer.
FM Former Member
quote:
Originally posted by SmokinOkie:

But to suggest an OH or SP is a better option for overnight needs a little more detail as they are electronic and have gears and can just as easily break down when not watched, so I'm not sure of the corrallary of because it has to be monitored overnight, go with something else.

Oh, and I would add they are gas assist if you want to run it all night or you'll have to be there to load logs in for fuel.

See there's no perfect answer.


<snork> Chains and gears breaking on an Ole Hickory? Sure...when albino bats fly outta my butt. Smiler Besides, the gears and chain only affect the ability of the racks to rotate. If they don't rotate, the meat still cooks. As to fuel, a load of logs on a good bed of coals lasts a good 10 hours. And if the logs should burn down, which has not happened to me, yet, the burner would kick on at the set temp and keep things cooking. I like my CS, but I wouldn't give up my OH for it. I've never felt so much as a nervous twitch about leaving my OH to do its own thing overnight.

My previous post was simple speculation on why someone would feel the need to overnight with a CS. If it was because of a lack of confidence in the cooker, then they might want to explore other options. I sure wouldn't pay staff to overnight with my pit. I would rather cook the bbq during the day and pack it away for the next days' use. I've never done it that way, but that would happen before I pay someone to babysit my pit.
Last edited by Former Member

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