Thoughts on Pastrami

quote:

Originally posted by Pags:
Looks like it's straight out of a New York deli. Beautiful.

Thanks, Pags. The pic below is one following steaming and slicing.

Wow. Better yet. That looks like it's straight from a New York deli. I may have to try the steaming step again.

quote:

Originally posted by dls:
pulplip fiction - When I make pastrami, the majority of the time I use flats in the 7 lb range. On the few occasions when I've used whole packers they've been in the 13-15 lb range and will simply not fit in my smoker (08) without folding. I've separated the point and the flat following the brine and smoked them with the point on the top rack and the flat on a lower, monitoring the IT of each piece. Both pieces are cooked fat side down. It works fine

Below is a pic of a pastrami I made a while back following the smoke and overnight weighting. I steamed one piece and froze the other for later use.

Good luck.

That looks amazing. Two of mine are in the smoker now (5.5 hours so far). Like Todd informed, the temperature readings are "wonky" - but they are nearing 163 on average. Interesting to see how thick you slice it. Thanks for your help.

quote:

Originally posted by pulplip fiction:
That looks amazing. Two of mine are in the smoker now (5.5 hours so far). Like Todd informed, the temperature readings are "wonky" - but they are nearing 163 on average. Interesting to see how thick you slice it. Thanks for your help.

You're welcome.

Personally, I prefer it thinner, and my family does as well. However, we had guests, some of whom prefer it thicker, so I sliced a bit of both to keep everyone happy.

Sounds like you have things under control. Let us know how it works out.

quote:

Originally posted by Pags:
Wow. Better yet. That looks like it's straight from a New York deli. I may have to try the steaming step again.

Pags - To me, aside from seasoning, true pastrami consists of 3 steps. Curing/brining, smoking, and steaming. Without the steaming step, you have nothing more than smoked corn beef. Not a bad thing, but it's not pastrami. It makes a big difference. You definitely should try it.

I did try it and had bad results. Overcooked and the pastrami shredded instead of cleanly slicing. User error. I'll definitely give the steaming a go again.

That smoked corn beef sure does taste good and also quite a bit like pastrami. But to get that New York style, I need to steam.

I've got a pre corned beef in the freezer, so I should get to it soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Pags:
I did try it and had bad results. Overcooked and the pastrami shredded instead of cleanly slicing. User error. I'll definitely give the steaming a go again.

That smoked corn beef sure does taste good and also quite a bit like pastrami. But to get that New York style, I need to steam.

I've got a pre corned beef in the freezer, so I should get to it soon.

The corned beef you have should work well. Just remember to rinse/soak very well to remove the corning spices then dry it and apply the pastrami spices. Smoke it at 200° to an IT of 160°-165°. Cool and rest overnight with weights.

To steam, I put around 1" of boiling water in a roasting pan then put the brisket on a rack above the water in a pan, cover it all tightly with foil, and put it in an oven pre-heated to 275°. When the IT hits 155°-160° start testing the texture with a probe, skewer, or some similar device. If all seems good remove the meat from the oven or continue steaming/testing until you get the sliceable texture you're looking for. I would not let it go above 175°.

FWIW, I'm a believer that the use of the weights throughout the process aids a lot in producing a final product that slices nicely.

Thanks dls. I'm sure I overcooked my first steam attempt. Always use the weights.

The additional guidance should help. Again thx. Bookmarked.

For those who wants to make pastrami out of ccommerical cornbeef, Restraunt Depot has cornbeef briskets in 10 lb plus range on sale for $219/lb thru 3/17/13.

Sigh....

What's a restaurant depot

Next time I'm in there I'll let them know you need one in OKC

Old thread, but I guess this is where the question belongs: I just saw that my local Smith's market (Kroger) has corned beef brisket points for $2.99 per lb. I'd like to get a couple for later use making pastrami (by dls's method - works well for me). Anyone used points for pastrami, or is it too fatty? Thanks!

I just bought 3 large points to make tomorrow night's dinner. I'll have to buy more of what's left on Wednesday. I never thought of using points for pastrami. I don't know if it will be too fatty, but it may just be a matter of personal taste.

I am going to be giving some of these ideas a try soon. We will see if the pre-corned flats go on sale after St. Patrick's day. I love good Pastrami.

Glad to see you back on site Vicki, enjoyed you're trial and errors in the beginning of you're smoking experience. I been using points in making pastrami over last few years and have no problem with them cuz of low cost. Many of the pastrami sites recommend trimming the fat layer down to 1/4 inch other than that the majority consenus is fat is flavor. I usually soak my points overnite to get rid of most salt then apply pastrami rub and smoked to 160 deg and next day steam point for one hour and half. Then slice and enjoy.

G Que, sounds like dls's method that I use for flats. What temp do you look for when steaming? I try for 185 or so, to keep it sliceable. Have you noticed a difference in texture between flats and points when done? I've had great luck with flats but with points right now so cheap, I've got to try them.

Never really checked the temp, but I just stick a single chopstick thru it and it usually goes thru like butter after 1-1/2 hour.

quote:

Originally posted by Jay1924:
...Have you noticed a difference in texture between flats and points when done? ...

There is a difference for sure. The fat content is just that much higher. Depending on how much fat renders (it won't be as much as a flat) then you may find you prefer Point Pastrami over Flats.

We picked up a couple corned beef flats for tonight's dinner. I also bought a couple corned rounds to try lean pastrami down the road. Just had to try it to find out.

Thanks G Cue. That's so nice of you to say. I have been busy just chugging along. Smoking here and there. My three teenage kids got tired of the smoke for a while. I've got a lot of meat frozen that I need to make jerky with. I also have been meaning to make bacon. My new chicken coop has been keeping me busy and I'll be getting meat rabbits one day soon (if I get my way with hubby) so I'll be looking for some rabbit smoking techniques. I will be doing the three points I bought the traditional way today (boil), I know, I know, hold back the "crazy" comments. I will be trimming some of the fat. But I think it will be delish.

We had traditional corned beef, but I couldn't resist. I made a killer Reuben Sandwich. It was delicious...corned beef, saurkraut, thousand island, swiss cheese, great rye bread, pan grill with butter. The works.

We've got a lot of leftovers so I'll go traditonal corned beef sandwich tonight. I've got a great sweet horseradish mustard to go with it.

Life is good. Golfing first.

Hi Vicki.

We picked up a 16+ pound corned packer for St. Patrick's day. I divided it and saved the point for Pastrami. I also picked up 2 packages of what I thought was flat, but turned out to be cut so there was both point and flat on each piece. I had to split them down the fat line. I am going to rub these tonight, and vacuum pack them. They will go back in the fridge until tomorrow or the day after. We will see how things turn out.

I love pastrami. I've smoked a few pre-corned briskets before. They turned out well.

I wanted to make pastrami from some goose breasts. I followed this recipe to corn the breasts:
http://amazingribs.com/recipes...e_made_pastrami.html

The corned "beef" was great. By far the best goose that I have tried.

Ihave 4 more breasts resting with their rub on right now. I smoke them this evening or tomorrow. I wasn't going to steam because i didn't know how. But now I'll use the trademarked dls method...

I was wondering what temperature to smoke to... Goose is a lot leaner than beef brisket. I am afraid of drying it out. Right now, I am thinking of smoking to just 140...

Angler - I've used the dls method for steaming and it works well, but these days I just put the meat on a steamer basket in a covered dutch oven on the stove and steam over low heat to the temp I want.

As I said above, I am working on make Pastrami with pre-corned brisket. This has been a "Make Do" type process. I didn't have coriander seed for the rub, so I used ground coriander seed. I didn't have room in the fridge to lay the rubbed briskets out, so vacuum sealed them, stacked them in the fridge, and used 2 5 pound blocks of cheese (that will be smoked in a day or so). I used 3 oz. of hickory for the smoking. I did a 2 step smoke starting at 140 degrees, and then bumping it to 220 degrees. The total time in the smoker was 4 hours for the meat to hit 160 degrees internal. I was a little disappointed in the results. The bark didn't develop like I thought it would. I did a taste test and need to change the type of pepper I used. The pepper flavor was fairly strong, and there really wasn't a lot of smoke flavor. I did the vacuum seal, weight, fridge thing again. I didn't have anything big enough to do the steaming, and thought about this for awhile. I wanted to develop some bark, get a little more smoke, and do the steaming. The dim bulb came on. I loaded the smoker up, but another 1.5 Oz. of hickory in the box, and a pan of hot water on the bottom rack. Set the smoker at 275 degrees, and 9 hours later the pastrami hit 185 degrees. I now think I should have left it a little longer. The taste test after letting it rest for 15 minutes was basically salt and pepper. It was tender, but could have been a little more tender. The bark developed, and the smoke flavor was good. I should have soaked the pre-corned beef in water for several hours before I added the rub. This would have taken a lot of the "salty" out. I will adjust the seasoning. The SM045 worked great for doing the steaming. I think I might be on the right track here. I think the current pastrami would be good on a sandwich with smoked Swiss cheese, and slaw.

Mike, I have found that the pre-soaking (I do 24 hours, changing the water three times) makes a huge difference. Also, unfortunately, does the quality of the pre-corned brisket. I've had good luck with Morrell and with a couple of store brands, but others, not so much. It is definitely hit or miss; if you find a brand you like, stick with it.

Jay: We have a Cash and Carry here. I suspect it is like a restaurant Depot. I bought a whole corned brisket. I separated the point from the flat, and we did the flat for St. Pat's day. It was great and not salty like most of them. I used the point in the Pastrami, along with a couple of flats. I haven't cut into the point yet. It is a learning process, and I love learning new things.

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinOkie:

quote:

Originally posted by Jay1924:
...Have you noticed a difference in texture between flats and points when done? ...

There is a difference for sure. The fat content is just that much higher. Depending on how much fat renders (it won't be as much as a flat) then you may find you prefer Point Pastrami over Flats.

What about plate cut versus brisket? Is there a big difference? There's one Q joint here in StL who has a sandwich using plate cut pastrami, or should I say smoked corned beef, per dls's statement. In talking with the owner, he said he buys pre-corned plates, so I'd have to imagine I can get those also (through a restaurateur friend).

I've never seen plate sold as corned beef, although I have seen round sold as such, but have never used it. If you try plate, please let us know how it turns out!

Hi.

I live in Bangkok. I'm able to have shipped to me Prague Powder #1 to use in my cure. On my first pastrami I used Tood G.'s recipe which used Tenderquick, but as we can't get Tenderquick in Thailand I'm hoping that someone can tell me how to modify his recipe to use Prague Powder instead of Tenderquick.

Anyone? Thanks. Andy

I've used Meathead's recipe a few times:

Preparation time. 1 hour
Curing time. 5-7 days
Required ingredients

About 4 pounds of beef brisket
1 gallon distilled water
8 ounces Morton's Kosher Salt, by weight (about 7/8 cup)
2 teaspoons Prague powder #1

Optional ingredients
1 cup brown sugar, preferably dark
5 tablespoons pickling spices
4 cloves garlic, smashed or pressed

Making Home Made Corned Beef From Scratch

Close to Katz's Home Made Pastrami Recipe

Finally had a chance to make some pastrami over the weekend. I ended up making two, one pre-corned and one from a flat that I wet cured using the dls method posted earlier in the thread. Both were good, but the one I wet cured had a superior flavor. Enough of a difference that I doubt I will ever go the pre-corned method again. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by macnmotion:
I'm hoping that someone can tell me how to modify his recipe to use Prague Powder instead of Tenderquick.

If you look above in dls' post, when he refers to "pink salt," it's the same thing as prague powder.

quote:

If you look above in dls' post, when he refers to "pink salt," it's the same thing as prague powder.

OK great, should have realized that :-)

quote:

Originally posted by macnmotion:
OK great, should have realized that :-)

I replied before I saw your other pastrami thread/post. Very nicely documented! Looking at the pics of those sami's leaves my mouth watering! Kudos.

I ended up doing a pre-corned 3# and a 7# wet cured flat. The difference was night and day, even though they were smoked and steamed together. I had 12 people at my place who tasted, although only 4 of us had the pre-corned for lunch (not a speck left). Those that had both were all of the opinion that the flat that I corned was vastly superior.

The 8 that joined in for "dinner time" crowned me king of beef, so to speak, but that honor should be bestowed on dls, Todd G and everyone else who contributed. They all couldn't stop talking about it, and yesterday I got multiple requests on how to replicate what they ate. I shared this thread, so we'll see how it works for them. I'm betting it's easier in an FEC (or any pellet smoker) and when you're somewhat used to cooking briskets.

Best piece of meat I have ever made - and I have made some good chit...