Upcoming Event

peggy, how about a smoked sausage sandwich. dont remember if your trailer has a deep fryer, if it does drop some wings, pull, dip in sauce or srinkle with some rub, hold in cs, not bbq but people like wings. good luck, paul

Hi Peggy.

I have been mulling this over in my mind. You are in a tough spot.

I think I would first get the name and number of the other BBQ Vendor. Then I would place a call and feel them out as to how you can work to each make the most of the event. Some vendors are really nice and others can be total jerks. Sorry to say that, but it is true. You will both benefit from a mutual agreement if one can be made. At very least you need to size up the competition, known or unbeknownst to them! Do some undercover work if you have to, but get some information on the competition.

Maybe if you are really lucky, the other vendor will be making sloppy joe BBQ's !

With only two vendors for meal type foods, I would try to come up with a low end and a high end food offering, It would drive me nuts not knowing what the competition was going to serve up and what pricing range they were at. I like to go in with a range of pricing that will work for me, but keep it under my hat until I have to show my hand. If I am on local territory I keep to my standard pricing.

On the gate ... I think 25% is high. Especially if last year there was no food. Unless the people know that food will be available, heavy advertising from the event sponsers, you may have people that feed before they come. Buns are the thing that will plague you. Left over butts and brisket can be frozen, but those buns are hard to save. But, the buns are relatively cheap as far as loss goes. We pay about .11 per bun. I would rather have too many than not enough buns though. No matter what you do, it is a crap shoot. Carry plenty of butts and they will want brisket or have plenty of brisket and they will want butt. 'It is a Murphy's Law thing I am sure. Last day of Flambeau-Rama, all we had left after we sold out of brisket was butts and that was very early in the day, they still bought pulled pork and the sales were so easy to deal with. I had a big sign out that said Pulled Pork Only and they still asked for brisket, bought the pork. But there was grumbling. We carry racks of thirty on the buns. They stack nicely, I can stack them near my utility table and work from the racks. At first twenty racks high is a bit tricky to deal with, but they go down fast. Once the racks get too low I use the old racks to raise the height for working by putting them at the bottom. Our bread guy delivers right to the events and takes the old racks away and leaves new early in the morning. Still, I had to order and decide on the amount of buns two weeks in advance of the event. A tricky proposition.

Anyway, good luck. I am sure you will get it all planned out and it will go well.

Take care!
Kate

Stick with what you know; this is not the time to experiment.

How many people are you serving at your flea market location on a weekend, can you use this as a guide for the new event? You guys are pro's at this game; go with your instincts.

John

Peg here is our two cents. This will be an exciting learning experience. We have a similar event each year. With 5 years behind us we have learned our capacity, for two people, is about 600 sandwichs for the two days. We plan now for 80 percent pulled pork and 20 percent pulled chicken. Both offered with q sauce, vinegar slaw topped with a long sandwich slice of a good refrigerated pickle. Events like this can get real hecktic or slammed. Therefore we keep it simple. Offer two sauces. One sweet for the chicken and the other a little vinegary such as Cattlemans Smoky for the pork. For our sweet sauce we just add 1/3 Masterpiece to Cattlemans. Wrapped in a red checked sandwich wrap. I would not do brisket unless it were being served chopped. Perhaps your brisket n bisquit might work for you. Either way I doubt if more than two entrees would work well. More than two leads to more opportunity to make mistakes, slows you down and creates chances for waste.

In case you opt for pulled chicken this is what we do. We get 40 lb cases of boneless thigh meat which we sprinkle with CS chicken rub, smoke for one hour in the 150, pull and bag in one gallon zip lock freezer bags chilled or frozen until needed.

We offer canned soft drinks, bottled water and 1 1/2 oz bagged potato chips.

Hope this helps a little as you plan and good luck. Let us know how it turns out. Jon Keep stokin and smokin.

thanks for all the input.
here is what we are going with (and the last time i looked i was still in charge of cooking,towing,maintanence and food costs but that will be solved at a later date)
12 each picnics 10 pound average
6 each full packer briskets 15 pound average.
i will give away ribs and chicken to our competitor. while this may on the face sound insane the location of this event is very near palm coast florida. this area has been flooded and continues to be flooded by new york and new jersey transplants and is the fastest growing area in the usa. that being the case (and based off of the customer base already built into the farmers market) i will give up the low end which is chicken to my competitor. as a nice aside i know from my part time job that ribs only amount to 10 to 15% of their total sales so he can have those also as the profit margin is truly low on ribs in this area.
this leaves brisket as our high profit area and thankfully there is no competition in this area unless you were to include sonny's bbq pulled brisket which i have heard referred to as looking like dog food but that is only the opinion of those that i have heard.
sides will only consist of a variation of mike mill's pit beans and slaw and those will be a buck a pop.
all meat will be cooked in the sm150's,and after cooking wrapped in film and foil and frozen. reheat times will be 225f for 2 hours and a hold temp of 165.
fec will be utilized during serving times set on smoke setting to generate a pleasing aroma but it will not be utilized for cooking production.
picnics will be taken to an internal temp of 180f prior to freezing. briskets will go to 165f prior to freezing. past experience has shown that for our customer base these are our optimal temps.
smoking medium will be bbqersdelight pecan pellets for fec (2/3rds oak and 1/3rd pecan) which is our signature flavor and has served us well.
we will offer our standard meat boxes to go
4 oz pork-4bucks
12 oz pork-8 bucks
4 oz brisket-6 bucks
12 oz brisket-10 bucks
these have been the backbone of our sales and to be honest if we run out each day 2 hours prior to closing i won't be mad.
again thanks for the input everyone!!!!!!
jack

Well, I guess I did a horrible front of the house mistake. But I sure am glad that Jack has a plan!

Thank you all for helping us figure.

We decided the brisket on a biscuit would be a lot of wasted time. First thing, the event opens at 10 a.m. each day so they've probably eaten breakfast by then.

One thing we've thought about is offering hot dogs if they don't get another meat-type food vendor so kids will have an attraction too. I just don't want a bunch of adults going for the hot dog and losing out on the bbq sales.

It will be a learning experience, all right.

I'm wanting to spy on the competition also, Kate! Great minds think alike, LOL.

Again, thank you all for the advice!

Peggy

Hey Jack & Peggy~

We do concessions at the local Flat Track races. The basic staple of our operation is BBQ sandwiches, no surprise there. A big ol' BBQ Pork or Brisket sandwich with "free" fries. What a great meal, and at $5.00 for pork and $6.00 for brisket, it's a great deal too.

Of course, we always offer things that families can feed small children....like dollar hot dogs. Problem is, at least in this venue, a lot of the adults buy 'em too, instead of a BBQ Sando. Now, our cost on the dog is about 25% of the selling price, so the food cost is right where we want it, but the profit ain't much on it. You gotta sell a lot of dogs to make much money at all, compared with say a sando or ribs and chicken. Even though our margin is less on chicken and ribs, the actual profit (dollars in my till) stacks up quicker.

One night we sold all 160 dogs we brought: "Sorry folks, no hot dogs....we gots chicken and ribs, though. Best you've ever had. Rib tips, too. Yum. What? never had rib tips? Well, you're missin' out. Here, try this. Good, huh? Two orders? You bet. Comin' right up."

We sold a lot of chicken and ribs that night.

Hi Peggy!

In my opinion, there are a couple ways to look at running the dogs. First, you will always have some people that will never pay for the more expensive sandwiches and will search out a cheaper food to fill up on. Then you have the ones that could go either way. These guys would be the ones you might lose the better $'s to. And then you have the ones that go for what they really want at any cost. I especially like this last group of people.

Now, on the first group, we can call them thrifty people and not offend anyone, well, aren't you better to take their $$'s than lose them to someone else? It is much like the Italian sodas, water and regular sodas we sell, only 1 to 2 dollars, but at the end of the day every dollar I put in the cash drawer is to my benefit. Not really much work for the money, but it plumps my bottom line up to a very nice degree.

The second group is a bit of an enigma. Some will buy dogs some will buy bbq.

The third group I have noticed tend to be older (not usually teens) but even this does not always hold true. I had a kid about 12 years old that bought 6 pulled pork sandwiches in the course of 3 days. Ya just never know! But the ones that like you and are not afraid of spending a penny are my favorites. Bottom line to me is to put every bit of that disposable income the people are carrying around in my cash drawer! However I get it done, that is what works for me.

What we have decided to do in our restaurant is to offer a childrens menu. Three dollars for each item. Under 12 only. Same pork and brisket sandwich, but much smaller. Dinner roll size, little fries, they can buy a drink to go with it. The hot dog will be the third item. Most of the kids sandwiches that go out at the trailer get cut in half for kids. IF you wanted to, a bag or two of the small dinner rolls for kids would be easy enough to manage. But, then again, cutting them is an option too. So, each works out, whatever you decide to do.

I think you HAVE TO do some background work on this other vendor! What you don't know could really hurt you.

I am rootin' for you!

Take care!

Kate

Kate,

I agree with you in general, but not for the special event situation Jack and Peggy are facing.

The ideal situation at any special event is that the demand for your product exceeds your supply or capacity to serve. So at the end of the 2 days, they may not serve quite as many customers, but they will make a lot more money not serving hot dogs. You may not be able to upsell the low budget person, but hopefully there is a high budget person just waiting to take his place. Their most scarce resource will be their time.

I wouldn't sell hot dogs, but if I did, it would be as an $1 or $2 add-on item only to an adult sandwich or meal. Only then might it be incremental revenue. For those customers that demand a hot dog only, that will be $3 please.

Hi.

Well, I played that demand for my product being greater than my supply in August at our first big event. Three days in a row we sold out of product. There are several ways to look at this too. The first one is that if I had x amount more of product I could make x amount of dollars more. That is assuming that I could have stored as much product as I needed, which I could not. Since venues are very specific most of the time about what your menu consists of, I could not have sold hot dogs or many other items that could be cooked and sold easily. Second is if you are in demand and you don't have product to put out people are disappointed, On hometown turf this is not good. Being popular is nice, but the third time you tell someone that you are sold out they get irritated. Third, and we experienced this, is that people can get rather hostile. Disappointed is one thing, hostile can become disturbing.

If at three in the afternoon I am sold out and am sitting idle, I would be more than happy to sell anything that the people will buy. I have my rig there, payed all the fees and I might as well have something to sell as not. It is a very bad feeling, at least for me, to sit and watch other vendors selling when I have nothing to put out there. The other vendors were quite happy to see us sold out.

Peggy and Jack's event is a rather unique one. Two main meal type vendors that are selling the same or at least assumed same type of fare. No hot dog vendors or other end alternatives. Peggy and Jack are serving very fine BBQ but if the competition comes in serving very good BBQ also at a lower price, who knows what will happen. IF the event is the type that required an entrance fee each day, then the customer may pick one or the other of the BBQ vendors and not be coming back to try the other the next day. On the other hand, if the event is free to enter they may have multiple times to entice people to eat their BBQ. We noticed this effect between the county fair and the town festivals. The town event was free admission and we had daily visits from a large contingent, whereas the fair required a daily entrance and the incidence of repeats were lower, not nonexistant, but lower. People that were there daily knew where to come for good BBQ and that was a great thing. On the plus side for one timers, we set up weekly in the same town and we have made steady customers of the majority of these people.

I mentioned this to Peggy and it is an example of what I was meaning ... The vendor next to us had two big fancy bubble gum machines out front. 25 cents a gumball, large gumballs, but he was filling those up regularly. 25 cents doesn't seem like much, but he told Patrick that the money he made from the gumballs always paid for his fuel costs to and from events. He was several hours away from the event and had an RV and a truck and trailer. These were very profitable for him. If I can sell cheesecake on a stick or key lime pie on a stick I will do it if it adds to my bottom line. I just don't see the same type of person buying hot dogs as BBQ. If you have the money in your pocket and like BBQ you are not going to opt for a hot dog. Not unless you just really like hot dogs.

I am not saying that they should sell hot dogs. I certainly wouldn't sell them at a dollar a crack either if I were. What I am saying is this, there are going to be people that will not want to pay for a good sandwich at a higher price and they will seek out the nachos, corn on the cob or the french fry guy that will undoubtly be there. There will be people that want a smaller item to eat. There will be people that will look at both vendors and make a decision as to where to buy based on a variety of reasons. It might just come down to appeal of the rig, if they can get the whole family food in one spot, or just dumb luck. The thing is, until it is over and done with, you never know what the end result is going to be. Peggy and Jack might get a better location and end up with the lions share of customers. There are a lot of things that will come into play at this event, things that no one can foretell.

I was just thinking... I sold BBQ at events where hot dogs, hamburgers, gyros, cheese steak sandwiches and even prime rib sandwiches were sold, yet we sold more than our fair share of BBQ to the public. Still, I watched time after time one parent coming to get a couple of sandwiches at our place and the other next door getting a burger or dog for the kids. Sometimes I made the drink sales sometimes the other vendors got the drink sales. I could speculate that I would have picked up more sales if I had something that the whole group could have bought and the drinks to go along with them. I could not sell hot dogs or burgers etc. I am held to my food listed in the entrance agreement. Generally, we do not attend events where duplicates are allowed. It is just the way they work it here. But, if I could have sold dogs and fed those kids it would have been a great thing. But, my suggestion was ... at least offer a smaller child sized sandwich if you feel you want to appeal to the little people. I have a 7 year old daughter that will take brisket over a hot dog any day. She can only eat a small sandwich and I make her mini sandwiches out of the dinner rolls. Perfect size for her.

And I have to stand on the point that if a guy has the money in his pocket to buy a BBQ sandwich he will do so over a hot dog every time, if he likes BBQ better than the hot dog.

Colonel Sanders said feed the poor and become rich ... feed the rich and become poor. Worked for him. Only let us not forget the poor guy with six kids and skinny wallet! I'd just like to feed everybody!

And, just to make this interesting ... I used to worry that bisket on a biscuit would hurt my profits if I allowed them to be sold after 11 am. But, I found that many people LOVED the little biscuit with the much smaller portion of brisket on it, and they would order 2 to 4 of them at a time. I actually make more money on this little item in the end than the sandwich.

We all live in different parts of the country and experience different markets. I think you have to remember that some things work for one area and not others. Basically, if Peggy and Jack knew that they had BBQ sewn up at this venue and other vendors had all the other bases covered I think this would be a whole different ball game.

I know Peggy and Jack will do well at this event. I know they will learn some very interesting things too. The thing that I found most interesting after we finish an event is how great you feel about the feedback you get from your customers. It is a huge rush! So many people saying nice things about your food. Masses. I just can't imagine the funnel cake vendors or the chicken nuggets vendors getting a charge out of hearing how people loved their product. I just don't think it happens much. But great BBQ, people do love to talk about it~!

Peggy and Jack, have a roaring great time and a successful and enjoyable event. I know you will do it in your own inimitable style!

You will be in my thoughts, you know what I will be doing that weekend.

Kate

Kate makes some relly good points.
And while I never aim to be a hot-dog vendor (I'm not) I do want to give the people what they want. And like one of Kate's points hinted at, we want to feed the whole family, and make it easier for us to be their choice of where to eat.

We did a big car show earlier in the year, and the previous year we had a bit of a run-in with one of the locals who owns a popular restaurant in that town. We had agreed to sell pulled pork sandwiches, and were told that we were the only ones doing so. When we arrived we found the local guy setting up right across from us, selling, guess what? Pork Sandwiches! I let the event coordinator know in no uncertain terms that this was unacceptable. Actually that was a really mild version of what was said. So the other guy ends up selling turkey legs instead and we sold hundreds of pork sandwiches..."brown bag special? For another buck you can get chips and a coke...."

The next year, sure enough, Local Joe already had requested Pulled Pork....so we took a chance and sold Chicken and Ribs. Weren't at all sure how that would go over. And we were set up right across the way from him again....well, I did not count his money but our customers were lined up and buying chicken, ribs, and rib tips from lunch through dinner, and it looked to me like we got the lion's share. Two ribs and a nice smoked chicken thigh on a bed of fresh-cut fries, $6.00. I am outside the trailer, pulling ribs and tips out of the 'cooker' and cutting them up right there in front of 'em. Believe me, that sells to the folks in line or passing by.

Oh, we sold about 160 hot dogs that day too, and over 200 lbs of potatoes. Tired but happy and a little bit richer.

Cold beer never tasted so good.

rootsman,
i am with you on the dogs but since i am back of house my vote has been overridden. this of course is fine since that is the way we have set up our business.
there is a plus side to the dogs. the fec100 will now have a job other than filling the air with smoke so the pellets will have a dual purpose (well triple really since i fire my sm150's with them also).
kinsman and kate,
what peg has left out is the weirdness of my onsite schedule.
this event is open from 10am to 6pm on saturday and 10am to 4pm on sunday. the event manager does not want anyone on site after those hours. while peg did get a variance for overnight cooking she also got a copy of the email from a county representive which pretty much indicated if i closed my eyes while cooking overnite the hammer would drop. to be on the really safe side i came up with the afore posted cooking and reheat schedule. that schedule of course precluded the use of the fec100 since it is unable to hold a hold temp and therefore is of little use to me other than perfuming the air for sales in this venue. therefore the dogs do make sense. the only thing being offered with them is choice of ketchup or mustard as we are only shooting for kids sales or an add on to adult sales (thanks peg!!!)
thankfully i have plenty of notes for reheats both from my part time job and for the sm150's specifically.
the reheats will take place at our commo kitchen. thnakfully i overcame my snobbery about the 150's vs the fec. once again these units are our backbone due to the precise temp controls and in the case of our commo kitchen the small footprint and the optional hood system.
kinsman,
as far as ribs goes i just can't risk it due to the local market here. at my other job they only amount to about 15% of total sales and the margin on them is around 10%. as much as i would like to make a flyer at them i can't justify it (best reason i can give is it is like having a 4 or a 9 as the point number on a craps table. the math don't match the risk).
chicken however i am still thinking about especially in view of running the fec at 180. in view of the temps swing that unit takes it would hold the water for the dogs at a true simmer. more importantly than that it would hold precooked chicken at about the right temp if i use the techniques that i use at thebbq joint in the southern prides. that one i am still thinking on. peg has a killer recipe that works and a leg is ez to carry. we still have about 10 pounds of legs at the commo. these legs were 49 cents a pound and look like small turkey legs so that is do-able from that aspect.
again thanks guys!!!!!!!!!
will keep ya posted
jack

Thank you all for your input.
We found out the day before the event that the other bbq vendor had cancelled. It might have had something to do with the state inspector being on site the morning of the festival. I think having an inspector at festivals and bbq competitions is a good idea because Jack and I work really hard to keep our place in line with the state as mobile food vendors. I'm sure all of you who have restaurants do the same.

We had just done an inspection the day before the event. We were sited for not having a Heimlich Maneuver poster. Easily remedied. But all of you in Florida need to know that the state is looking for that right now and also they are checking your log for your commissary visits. You must move your trailer at least every 8 days. Also, make sure you have a copy of 509 on board.

We didn't do hot dogs. I called the organizer and found out they had that covered.

We underestimated the amount that we would sell. We made up the amount of sales we missed during my recovery from the dumb old foot surgery.

We sold out of coleslaw during the first hour of the first day. Out of beans during the second hour. Out of pork and brisket by 2 pm. the first day. Ran out of $1.00 bills. Other vendors had the same problem. It has something to do with people using the ATM before they go to a festival. Apparently, they can only get $20.00 bills from an ATM.

The second day, we listed pulled pork and sliced brisket sandwiches at $5.00 apiece. That reduced the $1.00 bill problem. We sold out by 3:00 p.m.

Jack used a technique to cook flats that cadillac had sent him in order to come up with enough brisket. Luckily we had enough sauce and bread.

Thanks, Cadillac.
The brisket was very tasty!
Peggy

Peggy,

Glad it went well. Thanks for the heads-up on inspections. I've got a heimlich chart as a Word document I can email you that passed inspection. No need to waste money on an official chart.