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64 replies

Fix for charcoal making AmeriQue

FM Former Member
As mentioned by TaktEZ in another thread,
Charcoal is produced by starving wood of oxygen/air after it has barely ignited, keeping it from burning.

Thus, charcoal maintains the flavor capabilities of its wood variety, because it never has truely ignited enought to produce the smoke enhancing flavor we so desire.

In brief, if a smoker (AmeriQue) is making charcoal, it ain't smokn'.

Because of the design of the AQ and its woodbox , it does not ignite the wood enough in the begining and with the close tolerance of the programing in the controler board, in some cases it will only make charcoal.

Smoke is hotter and thus lighter than air . It rises, right? Simply put, it is a gas, but we will keep this simple. The woodbox with holes only in the bottom and with its tight fitting lid, does not allow the lighter smoke to rise (no place to get out) or fall into the cooler (but hot) air that is attempting to rise in to the box above by the heat generated by the element. Due to a lack of ignition in the wood (no gas/smoke), pressures in the wood box never become great enough to force smoke down and out of the holes in the bottom of the woodbox. In addition, we have hot air generated by the constant pulsing on/off of the heat element trying to rise through the holes in the bottom of the woodbox...Houston(or was that Ponca City), we have a problem...we are vapor locked in the forward woodbox bay (over the element passes) and now have no oxygen entering the woodbox to support ignition of the wood enough to produce smoke. Thus we make charcoal.

We also have no convection (hot air rising, cooler air entering) passing through the woodbox because of the situation mentioned above and don't forget one also has to factor in barometric pressure into the mess.

Remedy for the AQ?

Holes high as possible in the sides and front of the woodbox. For mine, I drilled two, ½ inch holes in the front of the woodbox near the peak and one on each side ¾ of the way back. This will require cobalt drill bits to drill the stainless (drill press recommended).
If you are reluctant to drill the woodbox, as a test, one can prop the lid open a slight bit with a bolt or something to allow a slight gap in the lid to allow for convection.

After arriving at the above remedy, I checked the woodbox on my 055 and sure enough, a gap at the rear of the woodbox, enought to allow for the flow of air to continue ignition and produce smoke.

Finally I have smoke lasting more than 45 min. in my AQ. In a test with the modification mentioned I had smoke for over 3 hrs. using a pan of water for "load". Finally I have achieved ash after 3 months.

Hopefully CS will acknowledge the fix on future AQ woodboxes.

I sincerely hope this helps those suffering the charcoal problem associated with the AQ. Remember, if your making charcoal, you are not smoking...only cooking.
If you want pics of my mod to the AQ woodbox, let me know and I will post same.
Rob
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FM Former Member
Thanks Rob,

And Donna, check my original post on this titled "AmeriQue Making Charcoal" below.

Rob, I believe you are right, the AmeriQue needs more oxygen and this would eliminate fast cooking which is not my favorite for beef. I would like to see a picture of your fix before I lock the housing into the drill press.

Smokemullet
FM Former Member
smokemullet, I have been working on this problem since I got my AQ almost 3 months ago and I read your post and had already done the modification and had not had time to properly test a couple of times before posting my results.

Just did a Turkey breast today (first meat in 6 wks, been testing trying to get smoke and not charcoal) and again had smoke/smoke smell almost throughout the cook. Now we are smoking...this is a first. Wood was reduced to mostly to ash. Did bump the temp up to 275˚ after first 2 hrs. to crisp the skin.

Holes drilled in front and sides the side holes did not show up too good.



This last pic of the shinny new woodbox is the one I received last week (along with a heat element) as a fix. I already knew to keep the wood forward over the element passes (bends).
Only modification to this box was the rear sectioning to restrict placing wood to the rear.
A good idea for the newbees. But still the same old original design, read my opening post if you haven't yet. I have not yet installed the new heat element. FWIW ohms reading 16.6 on new elemnent and 16.3 on original element. Not alot of difference here, but the new element should produce higher heat with its higher resistance. I did my test with the old element and modified woodbox to prove my point.

It would now be my recomendation to CS to have fewer holes or none below the woodbox floor in the sides which would consentrate/reflect more heat up and the holes placed in the areas as I have done.

Hope this helps, so far working for me,
Rob
FM Former Member
Cusnvin,

No! Order it soon, for they are selling fast enough they are on perpetual backorder. These little modifications are just part of the fun. Just like it was when racing boats a few (the truth - many, many ) years ago, always tinkering and always trying to improve the performance. The CS 55 I owned was the best smoker/BBQer I ever owned and even with some modifications going on, the AmeriQue is even better. Wink

Smokemullet
T taktezTo err is human, to smoke is divine.
quote:
FWIW ohms reading 16.6 on new elemnent and 16.3 on original element. Not alot of difference here, but the new element should produce higher heat with its higher resistance.

Rob, that's an incorrect assumption. At a fixed voltage, as resistance increases the current flow decreases. Since BTU output is directly proportional to wattage and wattage is a function of current squared, as the resistance increases the current and therefore the wattage decreases. In your case the decrease would be 15.954 watts or 1.81 per-cent. No big deal. It'll just take slightly longer to reach set temp but it will reach set temp because the digital temp control determines that.
FM Former Member
quote:
Rob, that's an incorrect assumption. At a fixed voltage, as resistance increases the current flow decreases. Since BTU output is directly proportional to wattage and wattage is a function of current squared, as the resistance increases the current and therefore the wattage decreases.


Thanks, been a while since I worked with wattage/resistance and should have refreshed further. I did ask at CS what the readings should be, but came up with...blank. Hopefully smoke still rises, though. So in accordance to your statemnet, I was just sent an element rated at 750 watts, but only produces 734.6938 watts @ 120 volts of power ohm/wattage/voltage/amp calculator. This is 2% difference from the rated wattage.
In any event my modification worked with the old heat element (746 watts @ 120v,see above) and the modified original woodbox...I now have quite adequate smoke.

My AQ is now smoking with 4 simple holes in the woodbox, which is a first for it. If you have read any of my previous posts about my problem you can see that it was not smoking, but only making charcoal. Where were you? Anyway, thanks for the correction. Hopefully my link will help others, which is all I have been trying to do.
Did 6 slabs of ribs and a turkey breast over the holiday weekend and both were smoked and cooked to perfection. Had smoke/smell through out the cook, which before I only had a stealth smoker...
Thanks again,
Rob
Last edited by Former Member
electrotechelectrotechMember
As you can see from the strings we have a few customers that are having problems getting there AmeriQue to generate smoke. The culprit seems to be that the wood gets slid to the back of the woodbox added to some vent issues. We are redesigning the woodbox to solve this problem. If you are one of the few AmeriQue owners experiencing these problems please give me a call at 1 800 423-0698.
FM Former Member
I spoke with electro tech (tony) at Cookshack this afternoon and they have re-designed the woodbox. However, it will not be available to ship out until ten days from today as they have one of their machines down that makes the smokeboxes.

So, we get to patiently wait...or fix it ourselves thanks to the good insight by Magic Dragon. Cookshack is not going to replace or change out the elements.

I am still asking myself if Cookshack ever cooked anything in the Amerique before sending them out the door??? "Ponca, we have a problem".
FM Former Member
Fullthrottle has said it, nuff said.

Order the AmeriQue or any other CS product, CS people are the best to deal with and they are there for you. And don't forget the return policy if you don't like it...they have admirably stood behind mine even after 3 months, leaving me with that option.

Still a dedicated CS owner and remaining same.
Rob
FM Former Member
First smoke using the AmeriQue fix

I want to thank Rob and Tony with the fix for the AmeriQue making charcoal, but decided that four ½ inch holes may be too much air moving into the fire box. Anyway! I only had one cobalt drill bit and it is 3/8 inch and could add as many holes and needed. Using the drill press, I bored four holes, two per side, none on the front of the box. The first hole on each side was measured two inches from the front and the other two holes were measured six inches from the front - leaving the new air intake movement mostly toward the front of the box. The information below reveals that is all the holes needed to get a perfect smoke.

I have been using more wood in the AmeriQue than in the CS55 and used three blocks of hickory, weighing near eight ounces. In the CS55 I would have used four to five ounces for a 12-14 pound brisket. In addition to the brisket, we had a pot of pre-cooked pinto beans with all kinds of goodies mixed in. The smoker was set at 220 degrees, the 12.75 lb brisket was placed near the top and probe inserted. The bean pot was placed two shelfs under the brisket.

The new air holes worked better than expected with the smoke rising 18 inches above each exhaust hole on the top of the smoker. The beans were removed after two hours and they were found to be too smoky, but were palatable. The temperature was reduced to 200 degrees and the brisket removed at 192 degrees internal to the meat after 20 hours total cook time. The brisket was identical to the beans, very good eating, but almost black and a strong smoke flavor. Now, we like a heavy smoke, but not this much.

An inspection of the three blocks of wood revealed a perfect ash, with just a little leftover burnt particles of wood. I can now go back to the normal amounts of wood that was used in the CS55 and the good brisket, cooked today, will become perfectly smoked brisket next time. Wink

Smokemullet
FM Former Member
Glad to hear it worked for you too, hope others post their results also. What exactly is Tony recommending as a fix these days?
I almost used 3/8's, but thought what the heck, we need air. I do not feel that ½" holes were too much though, worked for me. Maybe all one needs are 2 holes, each side, rather than ones in the front. I will try this on the replacement woodbox I received.
I am using the same amount of wood that I would use in the 055, pretty much what CS recommends.
Remember to test this, all one needs to do is prop the lid open a bit with a bolt or something.
I need to call, since I have not spoken with anyone at CS since my modification post and starting this thread. I have been talking mostly with Stewart and don't want to become a pest, he is a busy man...great about sending parts, but I was seriously looking for a fix.
Rob
FM Former Member
Rob,

I talked with Tony and they are replacing the original fire box with one that closes off the rear area and they have placed three ½ holes down the right side. His reason for just the right side was because they wanted to avoid the hinges on the left side. I felt it needed air on both sides and placed two 3/8 inch holes on both sides and avoided the hinges on the left side with no trouble. The four 3/8 inch holes will give about the same amount of air as Cookshack's three ½ holes.

I got plenty of smoke with this modification and can now use the same amount of wood blocks as with the CS55. Before the modification I need about 33 to 50 percent more wood for the same amount of smoke, depending on what type wood was used. The ash left over is identical to the CS55, now. Big Grin

Smokemullet
FM Former Member
so, does this mean that all new amerique smokers will be coming with the new and improved smokebox design (reason I ask is I ordered on awhile back and should be here in a couple weeks). Of course I am hoping that it has the new box.....what can I look for to make sure I have the new one (when I do get it)? Thanks for the help!

Shaun
FM Former Member
smokemullet,

If I'm reading Magic Dragon Be Smokin's posts correctlt the new Cookshack smoke box only prevents you from putting wood in the back 2/3 of the box. I'm already putting my wood up front but still getting only partial burn.

I plan to call tomorrow about the issue but the new box shown may not solve the problem?? Does the new box shown w/o a new element ensure complete wood burn?
FM Former Member
Hi DaveN,
The new woodbox will have the back closed off to prevent one from putting wood at the rear of the box, probably like or similar to the pic I posted previously.
The real fix is the box needs vent holes above the floor of the woodbox, in the sides. The new box in the pic I posted does not have the vent holes. I used my old box as a test to prove the point that vents inside the burn chamber, above the floor holes, were necessary to produce smoke in the AQ.

If only getting a partial burn, no smoke and with very little or no ash (charcoal) as myself and others were, then you need to do the hole modification explained at the begining of this thread. It has been determined by smokemullet after talking to Tony at Cookshack that only holes in the sides are needed. In my opening post and later the pics show that I also placed 2 holes in the front also...no harm, I was experimenting and my hole placement gives me good smoke now, throughout a 4 hour cook/smoke and it is not burning the wood too much (ie. flash fire at begining of cook).

If you want to try it and/or not wait for a replacement, just prop the lid up so it almost bumps the deflector over the lid and do a test cook with your drip pan ¾ full of water to simulate load. You will like the results.
Rob
Last edited by Former Member
FM Former Member
DaveN,

Rob received a new box before they made the final modification at Cookshack. The new one will be blocked off and have three 1/2 holes on the right side wall, where the wood is placed in the box. The holes will be horizontal and about level with the wood.

I don't need the divider either as it is easy to place the wood in the first third of the box, but as Ron found out - you need the holes for air and I found that four 3/8 inch holes, two per side in the first third of the box, does the job perfectly.

smokemullet
FM Former Member
I think I would not make further modifications beyond what the folks at Cookshack make to the new woodboxes. If you get too much air, you could simply be causing a fire in the woodbox and cause soot. Soot does not make a good tasting smoked meat product. The object is to get a slow smolder. As long as the wood is smoldering slowly, it makes no difference if it all burns to ash. If it does not all burn to ash, but does smolder and produce smoke without catching fire, use less next time.

Just my opinion, and we all know about those.

Cool
FM Former Member
GLH,

You may be right about any extra air just letting the wood flame instead of turning to an ember. After checking the difference of four 3/8 inch holes and three 1/2 inch holes with pi, there is about 14% more air entering with the four 3/8 inch holes over the three 1/2 holes. Thinking it over after your post, I should have tried just two 3/8 inch holes with a whole brisket and if that didn't work go to three and then four if needed. I don't want all ash, for in the 55 it left a little charred wood and about three quarters ash - it smoked a perfect cook each time.

Tomorrow, I will weld up two of the holes and smoke another brisket. The company we had over Saturday, ate all of the brisket and this will give me an excuse to smoke another for us. In fact one of the children, a ten year old boy, was a vegetarian and he tasted the end pieces while I was slicing it and at the table he ate more of the brisket than anyone else. Cookshack, you have another convert in the making.

Thanks for the input and if two holes works, I will contact Tony and CS with a report.

Smokemullet
FM Former Member
The size and number of holes is insignificant to a point in the woodbox due to the limits dictated by the .580 hole in the bottom and two vent holes in the top of the cooking/smoking chamber...limits everything in between. It is the location of the holes in the sides above the woodbox floor that make the difference, which allows the wood to smoke/burn. Original design provided no way for smoke to exit the woodbox other than a loose fitting lid...mine was very tight and done so with quality to assure that. Duhh...
It is the "choking"of the entire cooking chamber that dictates this with its three holes. The wood box in the AQ design needed to be vented above the floor to make combustion happen to produce ingition enough to produce smoke.
smokemullet proved this by using 3/8 holes as opposed to my ½" holes. But if you read my previous posts, I am not flashing the wood...getting 80% ash in 4 hrs. (smoking is done by then in most cases @ 225˚)
CS, I rest assured has tested this...for now I will stick to my four ½" holes and could not be happier with the results.
Rob
Last edited by Former Member
FM Former Member
I have no doubt enough air is getting into the unit via the bottom drip hole and the 2 top smoke holes, otherwise, Cookshack would have modified those instead of the woodbox. Anywho, I would go with Cookshack's woodbox modification. I am also positive Cookshack did extensive testing with the Amerique before they ever sold the first 1.

Just my opinion, and we all know about those.

Cool
FM Former Member
Amerique arrived yesterday. First results are not good at all. See pictures for results. The smokebox is the original design I guess, I put the smokebox in correctly, so that the heating element is inside the unit. It smoked for about 20 minutes during the first hour, and that was it. I did what I had read, and put a bolt in the lid to keep it open, set it for 4 hours and went to bed. This morning, pretty much the same, it charred the other side of the wood. I know some holes are supposed to help, but this seems extreme.

Here is the unit loaded with 6oz of the supplied hickory, about to be powered up (of course I closed the lid and pushed the smoke box back into the unit)

Then, after 4 hours at 200 deg as per instructions for seasoning, opened the smoke box and saw this
http://static.flickr.com/55/187220227_a00035e881.jpg
Turned the wood over to show how much had burned
http://static.flickr.com/62/187220215_bb58bc6622.jpg
FM Former Member
Just tested it at 220 (did 200 the first 2 times). The wood on the right side had about 1/4 to 1/2 inch of ash on bottom, left one was just a little more charred. When I get home Ill get the drill out and try some 3/8 inch holes that were described here to improve the oxygen flow.
FM Former Member
quote:
Originally posted by SmokeItAll:
Just tested it at 220 (did 200 the first 2 times). The wood on the right side had about 1/4 to 1/2 inch of ash on bottom, left one was just a little more charred. When I get home Ill get the drill out and try some 3/8 inch holes that were described here to improve the oxygen flow.


BEFORE you go drilling, give CS a call. The drilling is NOT part of CS recommended fix and it very well could be a fire problem (which they need to know) or it could be something else (which they need to help solve).

Have you verified the internal temp with a secondary thermometer?

If you're having problems with a smoker, especially one just delivered, give CS a call. They WANT the feedback directly as they don't routinely monitor the forum (Donna comes in, Stuart some times) but their policy is to work the issues direct with the customers, but not via the internet.
FM Former Member
quote:
BEFORE you go drilling, give CS a call. It very well could be a fire problem (which they need to know) or it could be something else (which they need to help solve).

Have you verified the internal temp with a secondary thermometer?


Thanks, I will call them to see what gives, and also put in an external probe, didnt think about that.
FM Former Member
Called CS, new re-designed smokebox on the way. So might as well drill the holes. It was explained that it is a combination of factors, depending on geographical location, humidity/temperature, etc. Also said the problem might be that the wood is going "past it's smolder state" too fast, not sure what that means.
FM Former Member
I have asked Stuart Powell, Cookshack's CEO, to address this topic personally. When it comes to explaining this the kind of problem, he's The Man.

To put this in some perspective: We have not let you down yet, and we won't let you down now. Until you are satisfied, we are not satisfied!
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