Please Read: Young man trying to get advice on opening a small BBQ place.

Corey;
YOU have to do your homework. You'll get alot of good advice(and some not so good) on this board and from others, but at the end of the day, it's your money and your business. Running a small business is hard and the restaurant business regardless of size is very hard.

You really need to write up a business plan, find someone good with numbers and come up with the projections.
1. Sales
2. Expenses
3. Profit
4. Menu
5. Start up capital.
6. Health Codes

Check out small business workshops, Chamber of Commerce, local University and resource that could help you realize your dream.
The last thing you want to do is buy some equipment, start serving food and find that you're in over your head.

Three key assets are. Lawyer, accountant and banker. If these guys are good, they'll provide solid advice. Travel to other BBQ operations, attend some competitions and talk with the guys/gals that are running BBQ operations, most are very willing to help you out.

Just my .02, since you did ask.
Good Luck and make sure you buy a Cookshack product!!!!

Everything that JCohen said.
Plus while you are planning your own place get hired at the BBQ place in your town, work you way up if you need to, it would be good humbling work. And you will see first hand what running a BBQ place is like from the inside. You'll learn a lot about the business you want to start. There may be a very valid reason this place makes only sandwiches IN YOUR TOWN.

I went thru 16 months of Chef School at the California Culinary Academy in San Francisco back in '92-'93. The toughest class was the month long restaurant management course. We had to lay out and cost out our dream restaurant, down to the last table, fork, glass, napkin, stove, robo coup, and include wages, insurance, and all the other expenses. Factor food costs per menu item. Based on the premise we would have 50 covers at lunch and 100 at night would we break even or even make a penny. Really a very rough world doing this. In the San Francisco area 9 out of 10 restaurants fold in their first year, usually the owners run up their credit card balances at the end trying to keep their place open long enough for them to get their first break.

It's a brutal world. It's a dream many have. Take my advice, go work in that one lone BBQ place in your town, you might find restaurant work is not for you. Many do. As I was taught over and over by great chefs: if you think you're going to make money doing this you're wrong - you better LOVE what you're doing, that is where you get your satisfaction. Successful and rich restaurant owners are like famous musicians or movie stars: for every one that makes the big time there are thousands that never did...

Just being brutally honest with you. Good Luck

As a fine dining restaurant chef/owner, you've received EXCELLENT advice from these fine folks above.

Knowledge, skill, location, and sufficient capitalization are key to any food service business. Start-up costs are the tip of the iceberg. You asked for a round-about figure, which is impossible to determine at this point. Your menu will determine equipment costs. You will have build-out costs for your mini barn. In this regard, satisfying heath codes will be key. An option to a fixed location would be a food truck concept, or a vending trailer "attached" to a piece of land providing the necessary utilities (water, electricity, sewer). A ballpark figure for a food truck/trailer could easily run $100,000...and possibly much more for a "bricks & mortar" building.

Next comes working capital needed to pay the cost of food, supplies, labor, rent, utilities, taxes and loan obligations. As BigMike well points out, under-capitalized businesses run the risk of failure to a much higher degree vs well capitalized businesses.

The fact that you're 25; without any former business experience poses a HUGE obstacle in terms of borrowing money. You might qualify for S.B.A. loans, or local/state economical development assistance but you will need to provide a considerable amount of funding on your own to satisfy any lending institution.

I greatly admire your enthusiasm and vision. All things (well, most) are possible. You'll find a wealth of knowledge at your disposal from the forum members here. Do your homework, develop a business plan, follow the advice from jcohen and BigMike. This won't happen overnight but once you have the needed tools and resources in hand, you'll be better apt to decide if going ahead is the right thing to do. If it is, let us know...we'll do what we can to guide you forward.

Best of luck!

Great advice from the experienced cooks above.I used to do site work for restaurants,as well as other commercial.Also wrote the business plan.

Had lots of "2-3 college friends that always loved the bbq joint out on the corner of a farm,where the family worked it one meal a day and closed when they ran out of food."

They bought the sweet tea,bag of chips,large pork sandwich with slice of onion[grown on the farm],pickle chips[made by granny] for about $3 total.

Now,they wish to lease the large lot on the bypass,between Holiday Inn and McDonalds at the four way stoplight.

Problem was they needed to sell the same sandwich plate for $65.

I'm sure some of the guys can pass on the old tip of how to make $1 million cash in the restaurant business. Start with $2 million cash.

Like they said-get good, professional advice and pay attention to it.

Good luck.

Wow really appreciate all the feedback!! Couldn't ask for much more advice. I have a lot of homework I see. Thank you ALL for the great advice.

Excellent advice from all the above experienced businessmen.
I am a former business owner, one thing you may or may have not thought about. If one guy in a town is selling pie, he has 100 percent of the business, if two are selling pie or what ever the product may be, then each can only count on less than 50 percent of the business, due to churn, unhappy customers a bad experience and the like. Big Mike gave very good advice regarding garnering a job at the bbq joint, secondly after some education in that business you may decide that a possible purchase could be negotiated along with a no compete agreement.
Lawyers CPA's a must unless you are one or both, I was luck and had a double degree lawyer, with a minor as a bean counter, I still had to have a CPA. I have had a lot of bumps and knocks along the way, the big problem is my youth is gone, so is most of the family was it worth it? I still wonder...
Don't miss seeing the forest for the trees....
Start up price is a minor thing, in this world education in key

From the school of learning the hard way:

May I ask what you do for a living up to now.
Also have you ever done restaurant work ??
I loved cooking, but I sat on my can all my life using my brains at a computer. I did church potlucks once a month with a couple italian guys. I really love to cook, it's a real passion. But it is brutally hard work that really doesn't pay. No matter what great skills you have it's entry level work (when you've made 50k a year $9.00 an hour is peanuts). So try working in a restaurant even if it's on your days off. Oh you have a day job ???
Keep it !!
You may find you hate working in a restaurant.
It's nothing personal, it's just what it is.

This may be the best thread I've ever seen here.

So to take it off topic if for no other reason than to applaud BigMikeinNJ for this:

"But it is brutally hard work that really doesn't pay. No matter what great skills you have it's entry level work"

I have a godson graduating from a very expensive culinary school next month that was told this exact same thing by your's truly almost three years ago. But my advice to wait six months and go to the local community college was ignored and even ridiculed by his parents who told me they wanted to see him on the road to independence. Now, with almost $35k in student debt and making $10 an hour, he's never leaving home. Sometimes it sucks to be right.

Back on topic, I've been intrigued by the idea of a micro restaurant for a long time. Haven't figured out a way to make it work yet, but I still think about it on cold, dark nights.

Here's a picture of Saucy's BBQ in Virginia. I don't know the regs in VA very well, but in NC he'd have to have a triple sink, a double bowl "prep sink", and a hand sink to start. Then you'd need some refrigeration, a smoker and a fryer at least, and a hood and extinguisher system. Then you'd need 2 handicap accessible restrooms, at least a 1200 gallon grease trap, and probably paved parking too, depending on locale. All that to open a restaurant contained in a 20'x8' shipping container which you could buy for about $2000. Do the math. It ain't cheap. And in NC, the requirements for starting a food truck end up costing about as much as opening a brick and mortar place.

ToddG:

Tell those parents: you asked me to be his Godfather, yes ?? Do you know what they say about Life: Life is so hard you need two fathers. Yet you ignored and riddiculed my advice. Maybe NEXT TIME you'll listen to me. Suckas...

Well you'll have to tone it down a lot, but it is sadly something that people have to learn themselves the hard way. My niece wanted to be a baker, nobody asked me for advice even though 15 years ago they saw me go thru the same cycle. My niece wanted to open her own bakery, even though she had worked in a couple of them. She even hoped my Mom (an elderly rich woman) would somehow give her what it took financially to open and operate her dream place. Well, a year after doing Baking School she got a straight job and kept it... LOL

Glad my Mom is smart enough to see a gold digger when she's got one near her.

Corey - I'll throw a few cents into the ring. First off, please read, then read again, all that was written by others above. They are speaking from experience, and are providing wise council for you. Next thing, certainly don't let anything be such a discouragement that you want to 'throw in the towel' before you start. The best part of getting experienced advice is that it enables you to change your plans ahead of time, rather than learn from the 'school of hard knocks'. And also, you will get your hard knocks. BigMike said it well "But it is brutally hard work that really doesn't pay. No matter what great skills you have it's entry level work"

Now, to provide some encouragement - first, you likely want to jump into this to serve up some great BBQ to the world. That's a worthy reason, just be sure to understand that it may be more affordable to feed everyone for free from your backyard, rather than from a small restaurant. Count your costs. When you startup, keep your dreams alive, and by that I mean this. It's hard work, lots of it, repetitive, and not wothout pain. The reason I say to keep your dreams alive, is because sometimes that's all you are gonna have. Your dreams and growing into new things are the mother of invention that can breed success. Keep in mind that success doesn't neccesarily equate to tons of money. Something else to be very aware of is the catering and bulk serving. In my world, catering spells out the future more than the restaurant alone does. In some regard, if my restaurant can make enough to just keep it's doors open, then it's the catering that is the real jump ahead. You'll learn to greatly appreciate catering (either on site or people pick up bulk), because it is a 'known' vs. an 'unknown' amount of product/money. Another thought is to be on firm ground with yourself, in terms of what you expect. Here's a crazy place to start. No matter how tight your business plan looks, and how well ahead you've planned, do NOT plan on making any money to speak of for quite a while. In my case, however, I will say that I was quite blessed when I opened my restaurant, and from day 1, the costs were covered and the restaurant made a little money. How did I pull this off ? I still work 50+ hours in my career job through the week, and opened restaurant Friday/Saturday/Sunday to start, with a wife who can do the work of 2 people, 2 teenage kids working, along with a few of their friends to step in as dishwashers for nearly free, and my willingness to not have a day or night off for 6 months. (I was a little off there . . .gonna be longer). Now that were in motion, I would say things are going 'well'. We're doing more catering (catering catering catering), developing our food lineup for weekdays (no heavy BBQ during weekdays, more smoked meats/sandwiches), and planning for the day when my wife can draw a little paycheck. To help with perspective, I'll offer this. We have been very well received in our community, and we have some incredible reviews and wonderful awesome supportive customers that no one could ask better of. From when we first opened, our public has been asking when are we going to be open weekdays ? Again, a matter of planning and a few good employees. I do want to offer the following, and others may have mentioned it. If your able to work, and do the restaurant on the side, or get some help, then you may find it more do-able than needing to rely on business to pay yourself. As a final thought, consistency makes money. No matter what it is. If you offer a lineup up of 50 different dishes, or only sell a single food, like ribs, be sure to get your game down with it. Don't make changes without counting all the affect on how you cook it, serve it, deal with it. My dream would be just bulk preparing of BBQ meats, where they lineup at the door and I sell out by 11:00 every Saturday morning. Well, thats not reality. My wife makes all hand prepped side dishes from scratch. The largest response I've ever had from my customer base was when I posed the question 'what do you all think about a mass-effectsort of BBQ, where we do bulks BBQ meats only on weekends'. It was a resounding 'NO'. So, we are staying with the traditionl foods with side dishes. Apparently my dream didn't line up with my customers dreams. :-) And as always, remember that failing to plan is planning to fail (I've fallen victim to that old saying more than once). God Bless and best wishes slinging your 'Q'. Just try not to rely on 'luck'.
Rick

Hello, I started a bbq business using a 24 ft. trailer. Has a back porch where my fec120 sits. It meets all state code. Some people ask "why not a restaurant?" My thinking is, if it is not profitable I can always sell the trailer. I can also do fairs and festivals and cater on site. My only food experience was working at fast food places and a school cafeteria. It will take a while to build following but don't get discouraged.

WOW! Have you got your 2 cents worth yet??? As you can see, everyone seems to share your dream. Here in KC a BBQ joint opens every week and two close the same week. Restaurant biz is the toughest biz on the planet. BBQ restaurant is tougher than THAT!

I ran the numbers a thousand times over the period of 14 years. They never worked! So I opened a BBQ joint any way 'cause simple math couldn't be right. It was! Be VERY cautious and double every cost and half every profit when you do your calculations.

If mobile vending is an option, look into it! I spent every dollar I made on my food truck to keep the doors open to the restaurant. Now I put all that money in the bank!

I suggest you start off talking to some friends, local businesses, churches, etc. and book some catering gigs. They pay good money and sometimes are easier to pull off on the DL to test the water before dumping your entire life fortune into a brick and mortar.

Jeff, Master of Meat
KC BBQ Truck
www.kcbbqtruck.com

KCBQ - I read your website, and I like your wit and humor !
Are you aware your menu has 'Diet Water' on it, right after 'coke' ? Heh.

I agree with most of what you say in your post, but for some, brick and mortar works out well. In my area (northeast PA), our codes are tough, and I basically need a restaurant to operate out of. That being said, it's also the launch site for catering and bulk pickup/delivery, which is definitely the winner. So in our case, having a combo of catering/bulk and brick and mortar is working. Believe me, there are moments where havng the restaurant is painful, and the idea of consolidating down to a vehicle is appealing. However, we have great customers, and our base is ever-growing. One thing that keeps me going (mentally) is our customers who on many occasion have said "don't let anything happen to this place, this town needs good food". Heh, I then tell them to "eat more BBQ then". It's been a challenge on many fronts, as I'm surrounded by Fridays, Applebees, Five Guys, McD's, Bking, Boston Mkt, and literally EVERY major chain restaurant known to mankind - in an area which statistically has the highest number of restaurants per capita than anywhere. Not sure if the area still holds the national record, but i did at one time. So needless to say, I can't out 'advertise' the big boys, and I rely heavily on word of mouth and catering to get the word out (which is working out). It's crazy in our 7 mile corridor of traffic - where 30,000 vehicles pass by our doors daily. Trick is, getting them to stop. There are many success stories and many failure stories in this area, traffic passing by doesn't mean much if they are on their way elsewhere. It's amazing how many people still walk in and say "I didn't even know you guys were here". I enjoy hearing that, because it means a "new customer".

Anyway, just throwing another 2 cents into the mix. Good luck all, and for those contemplating jumping into the restaurant and/or catering business, be sure to read the posts by some of the more experienced ad wiser council on this forum. And be sure you are prepared to give more than 100% of your effort. I think all can agree that it WILL take more than your currently capable of - so those that survic are able to adapt and perservere.

quote:

Originally posted by KCBBQTruck:
WOW! Have you got your 2 cents worth yet??? As you can see, everyone seems to share your dream. Here in KC a BBQ joint opens every week and two close the same week. Restaurant biz is the toughest biz on the planet. BBQ restaurant is tougher than THAT!

I ran the numbers a thousand times over the period of 14 years. They never worked! So I opened a BBQ joint any way 'cause simple math couldn't be right. It was! Be VERY cautious and double every cost and half every profit when you do your calculations.

If mobile vending is an option, look into it! I spent every dollar I made on my food truck to keep the doors open to the restaurant. Now I put all that money in the bank!

I suggest you start off talking to some friends, local businesses, churches, etc. and book some catering gigs. They pay good money and sometimes are easier to pull off on the DL to test the water before dumping your entire life fortune into a brick and mortar.

Jeff, Master of Meat
KC BBQ Truck
www.kcbbqtruck.com