Wague/ Kobe Brisket?

Can be done quicker,and lower internal.Can have a different-not always pleasant mouth feel.Can overcook from carryover heat ,while resting.

Cook some along side your regular packer and see if better -or worse.Maybe, your earlier loss was on account of the judges' table,or maybe the guy cooked well that day.Taste a few others,if you get the chance.

Have tasted several,and have tasted a bunch of folks that have beaten the Am.Kobes.

Just a couple thoughts.

Thanks, the timing is the part I am worried about. Also, I have never tasted one. I bet the texture is different as well. I really want consistancy, meaning as close to the same from comp to comp. I bet that is what everyone wants when it gets right down to it.

We have been serving Kobe and Local NC Wagyu beef in my restaurant for quite a while now.
We have never smoked it, but I will give you any pointers I can offer from experience.

The high fat/marbling content of the beef is what makes it so special. I have had this fat break down and melt at room temp. When we make Kobe burgers, we hand patty them and the fat melt from the heat of our hands.
It seems to me that slow and low cooking of this beef would be a skill. I wonder with a Brisket, if a hi-temp sear on the outside is the way to go to keep from losing all of the fat and juices when smoking?

Something to consider also is your rub. Less is more with Kobe. We use a light salt and pepper...thats it. Over seasoning ruins the taste of the meat.
We would hate to see this not work out for you with such a pricey cut of beef.

Chris Hart of IQUE held a competition class last month where he cooked a National Choice brisket and a Snake River Farms Wagyu brisket. Both were trimmed and injected. The Wagyu was smoked on a Jambo pit at 275. After trimming it weighed about 14 lbs. He foiled it at 170 and pulled it at 200. It was held in a Cambro for 2-3 hrs.

The National brisket was prepped the same way (both were injected) and was cooked at 250 in a Backwoods smoker. Foil and hold were the same.
The trimmed weight was 15 lbs.

The Wagyu finished 2.5 hrs ahead of the National. While the National brisket was great, the Wagyu was phenomenal...tender, very moist and very flavorful.

Yes, Wagyu/Kobe is expensive (2x more) but you owe it to yourself to try it at least once to savor the difference.

At the Royal this year I had a really good invitational team thats a very good customer come up and we compared my choice to his wagyu. You couldn't tell the differance. All I'll say is if you do things right ( there's more to brisket then just cooking it) You can achieve that type of product. I will say this that if you want to skip some of the process and go right to cooking without much to do then only $ is what it takes. Someone knowing what they are doing with a CAB or a choice is not out of the ball game by a long shot. The numbers I'm hearing these folks are paying are more like 4X more by the time they ship it in.

I'm in the "don't think it's worth the extra cost" camp. Sure it works for some, but is it really worth the extra $$$. Trust me, I think many judges wouldn't know how to judge it if it's the real stuff. I think it's like CAB a few years ago, there's a LOT of marketing going on right now.

But hey, go for it and see. Take pictures and let us know.

It depends on where you live, I think. Here in the Northeast (where iQue is from), generic Choice brisket is $3 a pound, and SRF Wagyu is $5.50 from a distributor. It's more expensive than Choice, but not anything close to 4X more.

iQue won the '09 Jack, I don't think shortcuts are what they had in mind.

I think Waygu gives you a little bit of an edge, but it's not magic. You can lose with Wagyu and win with Choice for sure.

Yes I have done pretty good with the Choice Briskets. The guy that beat me that weekend in brisket got a 180 at the Jack this year. He does them all the time from what I hear. I'll try one this winter but I'm not going to give up on the "Choice" just yet. Thanks for the feed-back folks.

Randy,
In my opinion there is no comparison between a Choice and a Wagyu/Kobe brisket. Now those with more competition, practice and experience with briskets than me might be able to cook a Choice that could compete with a Wagyu/Kobe brisket, but the first Wagyu/Kobe I cooked I was amazed at the taste, tenderness and moistness of the meat and there was no comparison to a Choice.

JMTCW!

I've done real well with Choice briskets in competition and last year had 6 top 5 finishes. I know that I went up against Wagyu briskets in a few of these comps and scored better. Most of these briskets I used weren't even aged, bought at Sam's the day befor the competition! I'm not saying that Wagyu isn't a good choice, but in my opinion not worth 3 times the cost.

^^^^What Trucky seez!

It's the cook not the piece of meat!

Well. Meat selection has something to do with it. Why do we avoid "select" briskets when we can? Agree that a good cook will produce better results than an average cook, but if Wagu were only a buck/lb more than choice, I think you'd see more of it in competition.

Bought a Kobe from Sam's online is was $6 a pound for a 14lb one tax and shipping included. Cand FedEx 2 day frozen solid.

I haven't cooked it yet.

This is an added note to myself and anyone who cares.
I have used SRF Briskets, Straub, Greg Norman Wagyu as well as Sam’s Club Choice to Shamrock Sterling Silver Choice each with their own merits but as I graph the results I have scored better with Sam’s Choice and Shamrock Sterling Silver. Go Figure. One of the big differences is I can hand pick my Choice and Prime Briskets which are fresh and not frozen allowing me to age them. Quality aged meat has a much fuller flavor I can’t achieve with the Wagyu I have used and I actually think the extra fat in Wagyu is a love or hate with Judges. For the cost difference I can’t warrant the costs of the Wagyu when I have had some great finishes with Aged Choice and Upper Choice. We did 15 contests last year with 10 top 10 finishes all using Aged Choice or Upper Choice and the two times I used Snake River we placed 11th of 30 and 22nd of 37.

Years ago, when a lot of us were secretly using real CAB, it had a very beefy taste. In people's choice, I would give it to people and MANY people didn't like it, they said it tasted "different"

Judges are people.

I think that's the reason Wagyu/Kobe is hit or miss. I can taste it every time, but I'm used to it. I think some people would taste it and not like it because it doesn't taste like the beef they are used to.

TRUE STORY....I judged a contest last year that was short a few judges, so we had a guy doing double duty. Well, before we even started, we were visiting and commenting to him to make sure to get us some good entries, because it was one of them wet and windy night/day. Right out of his mouth came, I hope I can get you a Waguyu, cause they are the best eating.

I thought to myself, what a poor excuse for a judge, someone that came in with predetermined thoughts on products.

I'd bet that he couldn't taste the difference, probably one of those judges hanging out in forums.

I pride my self on "judging as presented" but I've pretty much quit competing because too many judges don't seem to have consistent standards. That's based on my scores as well as almost 30 times as a judge.

Agreed. Don't know how you'll ever be able to get a consistent pool when some was taught to start at 6 and go up or down, some was taught to start at 9 and go down, and now they don't even get a starting point as long as they are within 2 of the table. Don't seem anyone is interested in a comprehensive training program, oh well!

It truly is a competition of not the BEST que, but que that doesn't offend anyone.

Well we have been through this before.

I do cook Wagyu's for comps. But I also do one regular CAB at the same time. I always have done two pieces at the same time. Just in case. We always try them both before turn in. And we have always chosen the Wagyu.

It hasn't been said on this tread, but there is a smaller window on temp in the Wagyu. That is what I feel. I think the fat does melt easier, and can be over done quickly.

I have not won yet, beut have taken a second and third with Wagyu against wagyu's. And twice it included Mike Davis, and Extreme Raosters.

RandyE

quote:

Originally posted by cal:
Don't know how you'll ever be able to get a consistent pool when some was taught to start at 6 and go up or down, some was taught to start at 9 and go down.

IMHO whoever suggests nonsence such as that should be drummed out of anything having to do with judging KCBS.

The only pronouncement I've ever heard from a KCBS contest rep is "a score of 4 or less should be accompanied by a comment card, explaining to the team why such a low number was scored."

I hear you MaxQ, but when judges are all taught different in class,then what do you do?

Entries are scored on a scale of "9" to "1". Each entry should be considered a "9" to start, then graded down if needed. "9" is the highest and "1" is reserved for disqualification. Your Table Captain will help you in the event you or others wish to score an entry as a "1". Do not use zeros. There are no zeros.
************************************************
Judges have been told the scoring system is from 9 (Excellent) to
2 (Bad). All whole numbers between two and nine may be used to score an entry. 6 is the
starting point.


There is two ways judges were taught at different time periods and I think you know how you were taught!

OK, I know this thread is vearing off course but...
KCBS members just voted in a new board of directors...those who bothered to vote, anyway.
Perhaps it's time for KCBS members to become more vocal about judging criterion standardization.

Chris Balcer
CBJ 57149

quote:

Originally posted by MaxQ:
...
Perhaps it's time for KCBS members to become more vocal about judging criterion standardization.

...

You're correct. We're stealing the thread.

If you want to talk political about KCBS and what's wrong and why it hasn't changed and likely will never change, start a new thread.

Since we are in the comp forum,I guess all the detail is warranted.

My $0.02 is that the rest of the backyard cooks should stay away from us.

Assuming that the folks here have cooked more than a few briskets,over a period of time.

Ya'll have worked your way thru the cutters,norolls,selects we could find and tried to compare them as we learned.

Eventually ,found the sources of better packers,and since you learned to cook the bad ones,your end results got better.

Like Smokin' says,high end
meats from sponsers can have a different mouthfeel,as well as taste.

Yep,sometimes a good brisket finds a bad table and does terrible.
FL BBQ Assoc,you can tell the tables you hit and the tables that score high,or low.

Yep,we see the rise of the "super judges".

Over the last decade plus, the three sanctioning organizations have all had changes in scoring.

All of us cooks complain constantly.Usually with good cause. As we know,when a team gets hot and teaches a class,their"hot/new" meat makes the rounds.

The one thing that has been constant is that the good cooks still manage to be consistent and seek their own level.

Do they all cook differently for the judges than they do at home?Probably.

Just a couple thoughts,so the casual reader knows the comp team may be chasing a couple hundreths of a point and they and their guests are the best judges over their product.

Last thought on the election is how few cooks go on the board and how short a time they stay.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom:
Last thought on the election is how few cooks go on the board and how short a time they stay.

Steve Farrin (I Smell Smoke) ran and won a board chair. He rrepresens a lot of cooks who are less than thrilled as per certain aspects of KCBS. We'll see.

Yep,steve has come to many contests all over the country,cooked with many of us,and borrowed the equipment while there.

Has put on practice cooks and done a lot to build comps all over New England.
At the least, he isn't shy about voicing opinions and has done the time at good contests to know how they should be.

Since this thread is about Wagyu's and judging, I just have got to ask. Is it not harder to take a choice brisket and use one's culinary skills to turn it into a fork tender piece of meat that a fine cook took precautions against it drying out. In which he was able to blend spices into a very tasteful bark?, if so, then why wouldn't a judge score it higher?

I'd say that a choice (even select) brisket can indeed win over a wagyu or prime brisket on any given Saturday when cooked masterfully..

Oh, and as far as cooks on the board, Steve Farrin and Jeff Stith are cooks who just got elected. I am a cook, as is Paul Kirk (cooks Lenexa) and Mike Lake (though he mostly reps). 3 board members who are mainly cooks is a huge change on the board. Only having 5 reps on the board is a huge change on the board. When I got elected 2 years ago, there were 10 reps on the board.

I cook straight flats from Sams, pick them up day before contest. I tried waygu, and was good but.. I think the flavor is so different it throws judges off. Price, someone said 5.50, but dont forget the 35.00-45.00 shipping cost there. We cooked choice brisket all last year and finished 14th in the country (The Q Factor) Going back this year to cook under Ques Your Daddy again for 2012. Its not the cut of meat that matters most, its the cook and flavor profile.