Convince me that I need to consider a COOKSHACK for commercial operations.

Heavey G~
This being your 1st post...welcome aboard.

Let me say this, and I mean no disresepct to you in any way: my participation in this forum and my role as co-moderator of "Pros Only" is of my choosing; I am not compensated by Cookshack. As a chef-owner of a 90 seat fine dining restaurant, I bought a Smokette in order to introduce some barbeque into my menu. My satisfaction with the product lead me to buy another for myself. Next I bought a 150 for the restaurant due to demand for product. Long story short, it's worked for me.

Questions:
How much product do you expect to sell daily?
What are you comparing the 150 to?
You mentioned "rotisserie"...do you wish to have it visible to customers, i.e., is the rotisserie an end-game towards product marketing?

I doubt I've "convinced" you of anything, but your post was a bit sketchy. Kindly elaborate and I'll try to respond.

I've cooked on both Cookshack and Southern Pride smokers (if that was the other you were referring to). Both units will turn out a good though different final product. The Cookshacks use much less wood than the Southern Pride units, but you will still get a deep smoky flavor. You will not get a "smoke ring" in the meat with a Cookshack under normal circumstances, though. Cook times will always vary, but I find that both types of smokers will cook meat in about the same time on average. I also find very similar numbers in terms of shrinkage between the two.

When our company did our most recent restaurant, we had two choices for our main cooker. We could use 2 Cookshack model 350s, or one Southern Pride 700. We went with the Southern Pride because that situation fit our particular restaurant best. We have two other operations that use the big Cookshacks with great success.

Another consideration is menu planning. We offer a smoked chicken breast, and smoking chicken breasts on the Southern Pride at the same time as other meats isn't really feasible with the rotissire(SP?). We liked Cookshack from our previous experience, so to solve the chicken problem, we purchased a Cookshack model 75 to do chicken in its own cooker. It also serves as a little extra warming cabinet space should the need arise.

As you mentioned price in your post, don't forget to figure in the extras you may need, such as hoods, control accessories, etc. I believe the cook and hold digital controller is standard on the commercial Cookshacks, but it was a pay extra option on our Southern Pride. Your particular operation and your local fire codes will probably dictate what you will need as far as ventilation, but keep in mind that these items can get expensive also.

One last thing to consider... if your post really WAS about the Southern Pride, you should also check out Old (or Ole) Hickory smokers. I have not cooked with one of these units, but they are of a similar design to the Southern Pride. I also think that Cookshack is a distributor for Old Hickory. One call to Cookshack may get you information on both.

Even though we do use a competitior's product for some of our cooking, I don't hestiate to recommend the Cookshacks. Their after sale support in terms of customer service and tech support is excellent. I can't speak to Southern Pride's as I haven't had to contact them yet, but I'll be happy to post the results when I do. Good luck to you, and feel free to e-mail me with any questions.

TOPCHEF ,
Thank you very much for the warm welcome ! You are a gentleman and I take great value in your advise. Sorry for the lack of information in my post. I will try to clarify and answer the questions you have asked. As to how much I expect to sell daily , too be totally honest with you sir , I have thought about it quite a bit and am in the process of putting a business plan together that will of course include this. one other question I probably need to clear up is my intentions concerning the size restaurant I intend to open. Basically I was thinking of a small Mom & Pop kinda place , approximatly seating for around 20 , capitalizing on catering. Menue including : Pork Butt , Pork Ribs , Beef Brisket , Turkey Breast , Pork Tenderloin and Chicken including all the approiate sides. AS too what I was comparing the 150 to , It was a Southern Pride unit a model 280 and a model 500. As to rotisserie question I was also refering to the S.P. units. I sure dont want to overkill and spend unessary funds on a unit that is too big for my purpose. I still somewhat feel between a rock and a hard place. I am sure others on the forum can relate and benefit from our discussion. Once again Thank you for the response , your advise is greatly appreciated.

BQ MATT ,
Thanks for the reply ! I really appreciate the information you have shared. As you can see in my reply to Topchef I was referring to the Southern Pride Smokers. I am glad that I have an oppertunity to talk to someone that has both units. I respect your honesty concerning your knowledge with both units , it has a great learning tool for me.I see as I get more involved in this jorney there are many options relative to what equipment I will need. I will continue researching and learning as I go. I can aready tell that people such as you and others on this forum do really care and will bend over backwards to help The " novist , small operator such as myself " for this sir , I offer you my sincere THANKS !

HEAVEY G

I'm not in a position to compare the Cookshack against the competition, but I have been putting together a biz plan on starting a BBQ restarant like you. I thought I was gonna get laid off this Spring, but no such luck yet...

I've decided if I ever really start this venture, that I'd start out with one-150, and if demand is there, add another 150. Even though two 150's don't equal a 250 in capacity, they do provide more flexibility.

I'm not sure what your situation is, but I hope your working on the numbers in your biz plan. 20 seats seems kind of small to make much money, unless you can do a lots of take-out and catering. Based upon my research, average margins are 5% to 10%. Thus, you gotta move some product, sell booze, or have ultra-low expenses in order to make a go of it.

Best of luck with your venture. I'll send you a line if my dream ever gets moving.

quote:

Originally posted by mainelydave:
[qb]HEAVEY G

Based upon my research, average margins are 5% to 10%. [/qb]

According to the National Restaurant Association 2002 "Restaurant Industry Operations Report" the national average for "income before income taxes" was 6% for full service restaurants, 5% for limited service restaurants. My guess is that those numbers will shrink in 2003.

Eeks!

I had seen 10% given out for "fast food" establishments, but the info was a few years old.

Thanks for the update Topchef.

Check out the National Resraurant Assoc for some great info: http://www.restaurant.org/

Most of the published report can be purchased thru this site tho you'll also find a lot of free info.

At the NBBQA show, there were a NUMBER of people who all wanted to start a restaurant.

My recommendation. Do just what you're doing, do some research. What's the market in your area, etc.

And what's your background in Q? If you haven't done any catering, you might think about that first. There's more money to be made in Catering than a Restaurant -- according to my catering friends that used to own restaurnats.

The reason I ask about Q experience is to develop your menu and that will also help determine the smoker. Quantity varies by unit.

You've got some great replies in here, so never worry about not telling us. After all, we knew it was either a Southern Pride or an Ole Hickory as "the other unit"

Good luck!

Smokin'

Howdy Smokin ,

Thanks for the reply! appreciate the advise ! Concerning my background in Q , My family has been in Q for as long as I remember. My uncle owned a BBQ Joint for many years. Also my father and grandfather was involved. I grew up in it and learned the " old ways " from them. However their way is very labor intensive. being from the old school they beleive there is only one kind of pork BBQ , thats the pit cooked , over the oak and hickory coals , set up all night with that thing , eastern N.C. Q. Dont get me wrong I Love it also. My intensions were to find a machine to get me close to what they have cooked for many years. Its going to be a real challange. Yes I have been involved a lot through the years with catering , and yes you are right - thats where the money is. However getting into the catering business requires a comm. kitchen setup. I really dont like the idea of a " shared kitchen " concept. So basically thats the main reason for the justification of starting the restaurant. As for the menu , its 95 % complete on paper. Thanks for all the time and conversation. keep them comments comming , you may be eatin with me one day !!!
Heavy G

Quite a background there. Be happy to help, lots of ways to go with your ideas so ask away.

We're a friendly bunch and like you said, never know when we're in your neck of the woods.

I haven't done a Carolina BBQ trip in a while, and there's certainly a lot of options.

Good luck!

Smokin'

Brand new to this, so please be patient! We, too are planning a small BBQ place here in Northeast Ohio. We checked into the Southern Pride & Old Hickory Pits. Liked them both, but leaned towards the Old Hickory. Problem was cost, space, and was it "over-kill" for what are needs are. This Building used to be a Drive-up Rootbeer Stand. It has seating inside for about 30 people & some picnic tables outside for nice weather. Sits up on a hill on a mail highway. We would really want to encourage Carry-out w/emphasis on Family & Party Packs. We plan on serving Pulled Pork & Brisket Sandwiches, Ribs & Chicken. After attending the Restaurant Show in Columbus, Ohio, a few weeks ago & seeing the Cookshack Smokers we're pretty well convinced it's the way to go. Point is... Would one of each - 150 & 200 - be over kil or not enough?? So much to think about! We'd appreciate any input/help that can be had out there!

Build a business plan. Begin with number of seats x turnover = meals per day. You mentioned 4 menu items in your post. Assuming they sold equally, how much of each would you need to prepare to satify your "meals per day" number? That gives you a rough starting point as to how much cooking capacity you'll need. If you're still in doubt, remember you can always add another smoker.

Your "meals per day" figure also provides you the beginnings of a profit & loss statement. Your P&L then becomes the basis of a cash-flow statement.

Sales
- cost of goods (food & beverage)
= Gross profit
- Expenses
= Net income/cash-flow

Work that formula out for one month and extend on to a year. The month end net income/cash-flow number gets carried over to the top of the next months column.

I'm painting some very broad strokes here...let me know if you need help dialing it all in.

Thanks for your input. Will pass along to the 'gang.' I'm SURE we'll have lots more questions in the days ahead.

Hi All! Just reading post. I have a BBQ joint here in Iowa. I bought a CS 150 over 2 years ago. Mind you I had limited experience with outdoor wood smokers, but read and learned alot. I took right off with the 150. My place www.yankeebluebbq.com seats 60 and we have a large carryout business. I do not cater, but do special events like an upcoming concert. I do spares only as far as ribs go. They go directly from cooler-trimming-rub and in smoker. I put in 16 racks at a time....put at 250 and cook for 3.5 hours and they come out perfect everytime!! I fill wood box with green hickory and they get very smokey (of course CS do not get smoke ring). I do make an artificial smokering in ribs and pork by putting a charcoal briquette in box with wood. I smoke my ribs (4.5 downs) to the point of tender but eating off of rib bone. I finish rib by pacing on sheet with a little sauce and placing in my pizza oven (since I don't have a grill....works great. People have said I have the best ribs they ever had and sell for miles around so I must be doing something right. Cookshacks are wonderful and I recommend them to anyone. How can you fail with the ez electronics it has?? Nice thing is you dont have to be outside working at getting temperature set on wood smoker.....iccckkkk. I set it and go home....perfect every time!!

And...there you have it! Another happy fan.

Welcome to the Cookshack forum, Alan!

Topchef,
I am new to the forum and have started reading some of the old stuff like in Feb 26 2003. I am thinking of starting up a B.B Q business but saw the figures you gave on the 5 and 6% before taxes to Heavy G and it sort of scared me.Can anyone make it on that kind of margin? I have ordered from an individual a 150 C.S and am planning on opening a driveup window only BBQ.Brisket,sausage,hotlinks,beans potato salad etc.No seating.Going to try to handle it by myself.The rent is $175.00 monthly plus utilities.I am located in a pretty busy location,but have no idea what I will sell per day.I guess there is no way to know until you get into it or can you?Tell me something to build back my confidence I can make this work.This is in Hereford,Texas population of about 17,000
Thanks,
Ronny

ronny, dont let them figures scare you any.
as long as you have good 'Q' you should do just fine. i think those percentages are a little painted. after all, they include all kinds of deductions..... my restaurant yields 50-55 percent take home! i have a neat formula that works great. figure your expenses for one month. divide by number of days you will be open. next, figure your average food cost. this part requires alot of input. usually 30-35 percent, but i run 40 (probably cause i eat too much). so, take your daily sales, take out food cost percent, take out daily expense figure. the rest is profit. keep in mind, advertising, repairs, and other extras will have to be paid from the profits. so, if your monthly expenses(utilities,rent,insurance...) are 2400 per month, and you are open 6 days a week, then you need 100 a day for this part.
say your sales one day is 200, food cost will be 80, yeilding you a whopping 20 dollars for your hard days work. yea, it happens. but then there are days when your sales are 1,000. those days you would take home 500! maybe this method will work for you, maybe not. works for me. its alot better than working for the man,,,,,

Sorry Ronny, I didn't intend to scare you, or anyone else with those percentages but they are an median average for independent restaurants across the USA.

As was stated in the post above, those figures are subject to the type pf operation you have, or develop. For instance, labor costs run anywhere from 25% to 50%. If you're planning to do it all, or most of it, obviously your labor cost percentage will drop. Same hold true for other fixed and varible costs.

Let me put it another way..."prime cost" is the sum total of food and labor cost. If you can keep those at 60% or below of sales, chances are you'll be profitable at the end of the year.

Rather than rely on abstract figures and percentages, develop a business plan. Work out a 12 month estimate of what you consider your potential sales and costs to be. Build it out as you would a monthly profit & loss statement. If there's a profit and the end of month 1, carry it over to month 2. This way you'll also develop a "cash-flow" chart which will predict the likelihood of the success of your business. Banks will insist on you doing this if you plan to borrow money. It really isn't all that difficult a task if you have a menu concept, and know what the cost of food is.

Lastly, always reserve some extra cash for those slow times and unexpected emergencies. Most food service operations that go under, do so in the first 12 months, namely because insufficient funds were set aside to weather the down times.

Good luck!

This is off the topic a bit but I noticed topchef mentioned using a Smokette for his restaurant. I didn't think the "residential" cookshacks could be used commercially. can somebody address this? thanks.

sherpa,

I will try to address the issue of residental smokers in commerical applications. In most areas, fire marshalls and health inspectors want to see to things for commerical use, 1 is a commerical UL sticker on the equipment the other is an NSF sticker. Our commerical equipment carries both of those listings.

Some times inspectors will go ahead and approve a piece of equipment that does not have these marks, but it is pretty unusual.

Hope that helps.

Sherpa,

My first smoker unit was a Smokette, simply because my operation doesn't rely a lot on BBQ. Once I got to using the Smokette I was so pleased with the results, I decided to add Babyback ribs to my Pub Menu... which took off like a rocket. One thing led to another and I had Texas Brisket and Babybacks on the menu. It soon became evident that a larger smoker was in order so I purchased a Model 150, which is used quite a bit, and has performed flawlessly.

Who knows, perhaps one of these days I'll throw in the towel on fine dining and open up a nice lil Q joint

one more point.... no such thing as overkill. it should be worded as "room for expansion" as your business grows your equipment needs will expand too. upgrading can be costly so start with upgraded stuff. just like the highways. if they would make them bigger to start with, they wouldnt be back in a year expanding them. you will want enough room to smoke a case of each item you offer at a time. just my nickel......

HeavyG
I have been reading some of the old posts on this forum and wondered if you did follow thru and open your restaurant. If so what cooker did your get and since you are in my neck of the woods would appreciate your comments on smokering. I am going back in the BBQ business after 5 year absence and am considering a CS or SP elecric cooker

Herman

Lil Red Smokeshack,

I too am curious if you opened your restaurant. You are just a short ride from Cleveland, I'd love to come down for some Q.
David

HERMAN ,

Thanks for the reply. To answer your questions , no I have not opened my place yet , have had some set backs , however I am still in the market. Would enjoy talking to you on your venture via private e-mail ( no offence guys ). I have not really decided which cooker I am going with but I have found that it really depends on what product and what quantity you want to provide. You are in the right place to get all the information you will need. These guys on this forum really know what they are talking about and are some of the most honest and nicest people in the industry. Learn from their mistakes , take Capt Pete for example , this guy really deserves all of out respect , I have kept up with him for weeks now and his example of a true die hard , doing it right B B Q er has impressed me. You may want to contact him , I know he will help you just as all the family here on the cook shack forum . Also I would recommend you take a hard look at the Cookshack / Fast Eddie unit. If I can help , please contact me , will be glad to meet you somewhere and talk Q .
Thanks and God Bless , Heavy G