Enhancing Bark Flavor on PB and Brisket?

Do you use dry mustard and Hungarian paprika in your rubs ?

Please say the smoker you're using?

If your having a problem with flavors. Iwould go with Cookshacks Brisket rub. It will stay around till the end.

I think maybe I picked up that you have an AQ from the profile,but it always helps to post what you are cooking on.

Like Randy,another fine cook,offered-CS brisket rub has won more championships that you can count.Pork might be slightly different in your tweaking.

One thing you mentioned is some good cooks will add some rub later in the cook.Also,rubs should be fresh.

You mention "liberal " use of rub.What do you consider liberal?Many pork cooks feel pork needs salt to drive flavor and in the South they like some sweet.
Most of our good judges on here will suggest that winning entries usually have some sweet up front and just a little late heat to follow.Do you inject,as it is difficult to get any flavors deep into big meats.

Most cooks feel that the CS traditional cookers are already too moist to benefit from mopping,altho some may spray at the mid point of the cook-if they rotate,or flip the big meats.


Long cooks may break down any fresh herbs/delicate spices ,but shouldn't hurt most others.You cook longer than I do,but that's just me.

Foil is used not just for speed,but to add another flavor "layer/profile".Many good cooks will work this into their technique.Some may finish cooking with foil containing flavors and others may add some flavorful liquid to foil and cambro the big meats for a couple hrs.

What wood and how much are you using?

If you are cooking a comp,take some of your product to a couple cooks you respect and ask them what it needs.

Maybe this will start you thinking while the experienced cooks on here add some more good ideas.

Thank you for the responses.
I smoke on an Amerique. No competitions. Backyard only.

Yes on the Hungarian Paprika. Dry mustard: yes, but not sure of amount.

Rubs I have used include Williams Rib tickler (for PB), wild willys wonderful rub, smokin guns rub, a sweeter homemade rub called Sweet Sensation (has some sweeter flavors and cinammon in it, for pork), and one or two others I can't think of right now. All have paprika. I tend to favor rubs where salt is NOT the first ingredient as our family doesn't care for heavy salt flavor. We would love to have the sweet and heat mentioned by Tom.

Liberal means a thick coating. No injections, but internal flavor has been pretty good, looking for more flavor in the bark. I use Smokins vinegar based finishing sauce which I believe adds great flavor to the internal meat.

Wood: For PB usually use 1 chunk cherry (or other fruit such as peach) and 1 chunk hickory. For brisket, typically 1 chunk hickory, 1 oak. Amount of smokiness in the meat has seemed about right.

Thanks!

I think Tom may have had a point on the slow cooking. Too me, it seems that the longer the cook the more time it has for the spices to meld/dilute into the product. The smaller the spices the quicker it happens.

Might try spices that have more size to them or turn up the smoker temps a little.

With your rub, you could try modifying the rub slightly by adding 25% montreal steak seasoning to it. So your final proportion will be 75% your rub, 25% montreal steak seasoning. I've done this with Brisket to 'keep the flavor' on it. It's a hearty mix that add's a little kick to meat.

quote:

Originally posted by Soleman:
Thank you for the responses.
I smoke on an Amerique. No competitions. Backyard only.

Yes on the Hungarian Paprika. Dry mustard: yes, but not sure of amount.

Rubs I have used include Williams Rib tickler (for PB), wild willys wonderful rub, smokin guns rub, a sweeter homemade rub called Sweet Sensation (has some sweeter flavors and cinammon in it, for pork), and one or two others I can't think of right now. All have paprika. I tend to favor rubs where salt is NOT the first ingredient as our family doesn't care for heavy salt flavor. We would love to have the sweet and heat mentioned by Tom.

Liberal means a thick coating. No injections, but internal flavor has been pretty good, looking for more flavor in the bark. I use Smokins vinegar based finishing sauce which I believe adds great flavor to the internal meat.

Wood: For PB usually use 1 chunk cherry (or other fruit such as peach) and 1 chunk hickory. For brisket, typically 1 chunk hickory, 1 oak. Amount of smokiness in the meat has seemed about right.

Thanks!

The central issue is that ALL rubs will cook out depending on the length of the cook. That's why the Montreal Fix above is a good/bad idea (depending on your flavors). It has larger sized spices, but the pepper will tend to overwhelm some of the rubs you listed.

The challenge is to find out what rubs do this with what meats and what duration.

Easy way to fix is to add some at the end to "freshen up" the taste.

I cooked two 7.5# PBs in my 025 over the weekend. One of my guests was born and raised in Georgia and another guest was born and raised in the Carolinas, a third was from Kansas. All three said the PBs I made were the best they ever tasted.

Here's what I did: I mixed maple sugar (or you could use light brown sugar) with a combination of some homemade rub and lots of DennyMike's Sublime Swine rub. I coated the PBs with a thin layer of French's yellow mustard and put the rub on very heavily (much heavier than you would think is needed) rubbing it into every crevice I could find in the PBs. I learned this trick from a Pitmaster at a good BBQ restaurant a year ago. He worked his way through school working with a Pitmaster at a local BBQ joint in his college town.

I wrapped the PBs with plastic wrap and let them sit in the fridge for eight hours.

Into the cold 025 they go at 225*, one on the top grill to the left (fat side up) and one on the bottom grill to the right (fat side down to protect it from the heat). I use six ounces of wood when cooking PBs or briskets.

After the IT of the PBs hits 140 (usually in about three to four hours) I drop the temp to my desired finish temp of 195 and leave them there for eight hours.

After eight hours at 195* then the PBs are usually in the 165* range (plateau time).

I then crank the heat to 250* and begin the evaporation process. Often the IT of the PBs will DECREASE while the evaporation process is happening.

At no time do I open the door of the smoker until I test for done-ness towards the end of the cook.

When the PBs hit 175* or so they will quickly make their way to the desired finished temperature and the IT must be watched closely to avoid overcooking.

At 190 (or so) I test the PBs for done-ness with a wooden skewer. When I can run the PBs through easily with the skewer, the PBs are done. I wrap them with foil and a towel and into the cooler they go until it is time for service.

I get lots of flavorful bark.

I do my briskets the same way. People rave about my PBs and briskets (and ribs, too).

This method was arrived at for my convenience and peace of mind. I put the PBs in around suppertime the day before company is coming. I let the PBs smoke at 225 until bedtime then drop the temp to 190 while I am asleep. After breakfast I bump the temp up to 250. The PBs usually come out around 3pm and go into the cooler. We remove the PBs from the cooler, pull them, and serve guests around 6:30-7:00 pm. The PBs are still almost too hot to handle even after all that time in the FTC.

This is what works for me. Your mileage may vary.

Good luck. And if you try my method, let me know how it worked for you.

MAINEiac

PS-And I ALWAYS apply Smokin's finsihing sauce to my PBs. Gotta give credit where credit is due.

MAINEiac.

Hey, if it's working, don't change it, that's some good compliments your getting there.

Just curious, why the higher temp first? Me? I'd just start it at the lower temp allowing for more penetration. I'm sure you tried it that way, was there a reason why not?

Bark is such a subjective thing, varies a lot with duration and humidity and amount, lots of variations

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinOkie:
MAINEiac.

Hey, if it's working, don't change it, that's some good compliments your getting there.

Just curious, why the higher temp first? Me? I'd just start it at the lower temp allowing for more penetration. I'm sure you tried it that way, was there a reason why not?

Bark is such a subjective thing, varies a lot with duration and humidity and amount, lots of variations

Smokin,

I have not tried it that way. Next time I do a PB for just Mrs. SmokinMAINEiac and myself I'll try that way to see how it works.

I gotta say it again Smokin, your finishing sauce has got me more compliments on my pulled pork than I can count. Folks, if you haven't tried it yet, you really should.

Smokin Okie's Pulled Pork Baste & Serving Sauce

(makes about 5 cups)


4 cups apple juice
1/2 cup Worcestershire sauce
4 tablespoons cider vinegar
2 tablespoon dry mustard
4 tablespoon brown sugar
3 bay leaf
6 cloves of garlic
2 teaspoon ground ginger
1 teaspoon cayenne (I sometimes use Hungarian Paprika)
1/2 teaspoon ground cloves (the secret ingredient)



Heat all of the ingredients in a nonreactive pan (the acid in the vinegar will react with some pans be careful) Bring it to a boil, reduce and simmer for 15 min.

MAINEiac

Glad you like it. Thanks for posting it again, always good to bring up the classics

Nice job MAINEiac. It's great when folks look forward to your barbecues and love your pulled pork.

I rarely do pulled pork without Smokin's Finishing Sauce. Plenty of other sauces as sides in squeeze bottles (appropriately labeled) for those that want it while building their sandwiches. Also, a squeeze bottle of the Finishing Sauce that gets used the most by my guests.

I get a lot of compliments for the Finishing Sauce (the bottle is appropriately labeled "Smokin Okie's Finishing Sauce"). We also like Smokin's Vinegar Based Mop. The extra vinegar adds some "pop" to the pulled pork.

A great amount of good tips from all the good cooks on here,but now where do you go.

I'm no expert,but I have cooked with a bunch of folks that are.

If you have seen any of my posts,you see that I pitch using the K.I.S.S. principle.
Smokin' for many years has said start simple,take good notes and change one thing at a time-so you know which change works.

Since we are talking bark,let's leave the rest alone.

I'd check your therms for accurate and then check the spot where you are actually cooking.

I'd set that spot to run between 235º-250º.

If you have CS Brisket handy,I'd use it on the beef and SmokinGuns on the pork.I'd try pork first,since it is easiest to focus on.

I'd mix a 12 oz bottle of the rub with about four oz sugar in the raw ,pack as much as will hold on that piece of meat and let it set in the refrig while you are getting the cooker and all else ready.

I'd try a nut wood. At least a fist size of hickory or pecan.

After an hr,or so,it should be wet,so pack the remaining rub mixture on it.

Stick your therm in and cook until it gets close to 195º and then look at it for done.If not done,cook another 30-45 mins until closer to 200º.If ready,pull it out and let it set in foil and towel for a couple hrs.Now pull it.

A packer should work about the same way with either rub mix.

If it doesn't suit you,you and the forum can speculate where to go next.

Just my $0.02
Hope this helps a little.

Okay, thanks guys. I should be doing some briskets here in the next couple of weeks. I will report back and let you know how it goes

Follow up on the above:
Have done some experimenting with your suggestions and what seems to have helped this issue is:

1) Adding more rub mid cook. If I put the meat on at night, I will add a new layer of rub upon waking up in the morning. I apply it to the meat right on the rack of the smoker.

2)Increasing the smoker temps during the second half of the cook, to help the meat get done faster. From your comments, I assume this keeps the spices from diluting as much since cooking time is now shorter.

My most recent packer brisket had a great bark, both in texture and flavor. The bonus was that it cooked in about 3 hours less time than usual, due to me increasing the temp during the 2nd half of the cook.

Thanks to everyone for suggestions.