Thanks. Dave
I have a question on foiling, I have seen it mentioned here and being new to this I am not sure I grasp the concept. Can someone please clue me in here.
Thanks. Dave
Thanks. Dave
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I'm with you Dave. Seems to be alot of foiling going on here. I am waiting for a answer on that as well. 
my 20-second comment on that is that some folks seem to cook their Q for a while then put the meat in foil, and continue cooking. for the life of me, I don't get that. Might as well stick it in the house oven and steam the meat. I do, however, firmly believe in cooking your meat (ribs, butts, briskets) without foil til done (whatever you consider done to be), then wrapping those items tightly in foil to hold for at least 30 minutes -- or as much as quite a few hours -- before serving. Once the smoking is done, the foiling and holding (often in a cooler, to help maintain heat for a long period), will help to tenderize the meat further. This even works for me with whole chickens that I do on the Weber. does that help??
The movie about the dog show. That was the best movie I have seen. I can't remember the name, come on people help me out here. Was it "Best in show" I think a little of that is going on here.
I love this forum!
I love this forum!
I tried foiling some baby back ribs with a little apple juice for the first time and I didn't like. You couldn't pick up the ribs with out the meat falling off the bone.
There are a few topics that "sometimes" creates some pretty heated discussions on other forums, and Foiling is one of them.
Here, we're all one big happy family.
For the new members, don't forget, you can do a search on "foil" and you'll bring up some interesting reading.
Ah, Foiling. Woodburner described the process.
I don't normally use it. Sometimes I do (for really large smokes and holding).
Mostly I don't and there is a time to use a crutch and a time not to and that's about as wishy washy as I can get
Some see it as a crutch, why put something in a smoker and then cover it up, hiding any more smoke (the outside of the meat can still get smokey, but the smoke won't penetrate any more than it has once it reaches 140). If you trap moisture (by wrapping in foil) then you can describe it as "steaming" because the temp of steam is 212 and you're smoking above that.
Others, including Championship Teams, swear by it. Although....most of those that do use it, take the items out of the foil near the end and cover it with a mop/sauce.
Let the discussions begin.
Here, we're all one big happy family.
For the new members, don't forget, you can do a search on "foil" and you'll bring up some interesting reading.
Ah, Foiling. Woodburner described the process.
I don't normally use it. Sometimes I do (for really large smokes and holding).
Mostly I don't and there is a time to use a crutch and a time not to and that's about as wishy washy as I can get
Some see it as a crutch, why put something in a smoker and then cover it up, hiding any more smoke (the outside of the meat can still get smokey, but the smoke won't penetrate any more than it has once it reaches 140). If you trap moisture (by wrapping in foil) then you can describe it as "steaming" because the temp of steam is 212 and you're smoking above that.
Others, including Championship Teams, swear by it. Although....most of those that do use it, take the items out of the foil near the end and cover it with a mop/sauce.
Let the discussions begin.
I guess I better take a shot at this one....
First of all, foiling is a very personal thing! There is NO right way or wrong way to cook ribs, foiling is just another technique.
I learned my rib techniques from cooking on the MIM circuit. Most every team uses foil on that circuit(many also use foil on the KCBS circuit). They are the single best ribs I have ever tasted in my life. Since learning this, I have gone on to win several ribbons in cooking ribs...all of them foiled.
Now, many will say that they are not interested in competition and that is fine. However, I think competing can give you some very good input on how your food stacks up against other cooks. So far, foiled ribs seems to be stacking up very nicely.
Here is what I decided long ago, especially when serving ribs to guests.....
99% of the general public likes the rib meat to fall off the bone. Right or wrong, that's how they like it.
I want to serve my guests what they like. I am NOT here to educate them on how a rib SHOULD taste...that would be a waste of time. So, they get falling off the bone ribs.
Foiling will achieve this fall off the bone tenderness they desire. I agree that you are steaming your meat, but it is one of the surest ways to get tender AND moist ribs.
You have to experiment to get your timing down. Many complain of rib meat falling off before serving...too much time in the foil, cut back. Some say the meat is mushy, again, too much time in the foil.
I know exactly how long to foil mine and I have never, ever had the meat fall off or the meat turn mushy or lose any flavor or not have a great bark from foiling.
Keep in mind, the foiling is done AFTER the smoke has been applied, so any analogy to oven cooking is unfair. Also, most of us finish the ribs UNWRAPPED which help to firm them up and you get some fresh smoke flavor.
Finally, I will also admit that foiling is a HUGE pain!! I recently did a party where I had to cook 16 racks of ribs and all I could think about was how much time it was going to take to wrap those damn things!
Qing is an art and the foiling part is sure evidence of this. I have shared my exact technique with many and I still get a few folks who have terrible results.
Anyway, just some input from a successful "foiler".
In the end, whatever YOU like is the best Q!
First of all, foiling is a very personal thing! There is NO right way or wrong way to cook ribs, foiling is just another technique.
I learned my rib techniques from cooking on the MIM circuit. Most every team uses foil on that circuit(many also use foil on the KCBS circuit). They are the single best ribs I have ever tasted in my life. Since learning this, I have gone on to win several ribbons in cooking ribs...all of them foiled.
Now, many will say that they are not interested in competition and that is fine. However, I think competing can give you some very good input on how your food stacks up against other cooks. So far, foiled ribs seems to be stacking up very nicely.
Here is what I decided long ago, especially when serving ribs to guests.....
99% of the general public likes the rib meat to fall off the bone. Right or wrong, that's how they like it.
I want to serve my guests what they like. I am NOT here to educate them on how a rib SHOULD taste...that would be a waste of time. So, they get falling off the bone ribs.
Foiling will achieve this fall off the bone tenderness they desire. I agree that you are steaming your meat, but it is one of the surest ways to get tender AND moist ribs.
You have to experiment to get your timing down. Many complain of rib meat falling off before serving...too much time in the foil, cut back. Some say the meat is mushy, again, too much time in the foil.
I know exactly how long to foil mine and I have never, ever had the meat fall off or the meat turn mushy or lose any flavor or not have a great bark from foiling.
Keep in mind, the foiling is done AFTER the smoke has been applied, so any analogy to oven cooking is unfair. Also, most of us finish the ribs UNWRAPPED which help to firm them up and you get some fresh smoke flavor.
Finally, I will also admit that foiling is a HUGE pain!! I recently did a party where I had to cook 16 racks of ribs and all I could think about was how much time it was going to take to wrap those damn things!
Qing is an art and the foiling part is sure evidence of this. I have shared my exact technique with many and I still get a few folks who have terrible results.
Anyway, just some input from a successful "foiler".
In the end, whatever YOU like is the best Q!
IMHO the critical part of Smokin' and Stogie's posts are experimentation,careful observation,and detailed note taking.
Neither of them is a once a month slab cook and don't mind adjustments.
Foil and liquids require more observation and judgements.
The CS can get you edible,almost by walking away and leaving it.
MIM ,like Stogie refers to,likes the ribs to almost fall off the bone-at least pull cleanly.
KCBS and FBA will like the ribs to bite cleanly off the bone.
The same cook may foil at MIM and not at KCBS or Fl BBQ ASSOC.
Neither of them is a once a month slab cook and don't mind adjustments.
Foil and liquids require more observation and judgements.
The CS can get you edible,almost by walking away and leaving it.
MIM ,like Stogie refers to,likes the ribs to almost fall off the bone-at least pull cleanly.
KCBS and FBA will like the ribs to bite cleanly off the bone.
The same cook may foil at MIM and not at KCBS or Fl BBQ ASSOC.
I agree I let them stay a little to long in the foil.I was in a hurry when writing the first post so I didn't mean to sound like I was aginst it. I am testing new ideas that I read on this forum.I have just put sauce on the rib and foiled them and they came out good.I wonder why this is such a hot topic?I'm here to learn and discuss BQ and learn new tricks.
Stogie, well, well put. I'll quote you on your "State-of-the-Foil" address. Now didn't you post your "method" here someplace before? You talked about foil, but now how to do it
Foil is a preference, just like Hot or Mild, CS or Non-CS. Whatever trips your trigger.
No one will find someone else's techniques to work perfect for them. I always say take the advice in, KEEP GOOD NOTES, and go from there.
And of course, do LOTS of Q'in and the practice will show.
Foil is a preference, just like Hot or Mild, CS or Non-CS. Whatever trips your trigger.
No one will find someone else's techniques to work perfect for them. I always say take the advice in, KEEP GOOD NOTES, and go from there.
And of course, do LOTS of Q'in and the practice will show.
quote:Originally posted by Stogie:
[qb] I have shared my exact technique with many and I still get a few folks who have terrible results.
[/qb]
Stogie - would you mind "sharing" one more time? Or, pointing me to a link - assuming one exists.
Much oblidged!
What I am asking about mainly is, is this something that would help with a lean roast, like a pork tenderloin or a beef eye. I enjoy making these and slicing for sandwiches for work. My objective is to keep them flavorful and moist until they are done. Does anyone inject roasts before smoking?
Incidently I like my ribs with the meat stuck on so you have to work for it, makes them seem so much better.
Thanks for all the advice, if I keep reading and asking questions I might get pretty good at this.
Dave
Incidently I like my ribs with the meat stuck on so you have to work for it, makes them seem so much better.
Thanks for all the advice, if I keep reading and asking questions I might get pretty good at this.
Dave
Top Chef.......
Glad to share, but beware, I get many questions when folks try to duplicate this! Also, these are directions for using my WSM.
I use BB's from Sam's which weigh around 2 1/4 - 2 1/2 pounds..that is very important, as weight will be a major factor when it comes to cooking times!
The night before, rub with your favorite..I make a homemade cherry rub. Then I slather with cherry yogurt.....this gives me flavor.....that is all I am seeking in this stuff. You can use your own favorite flavored yogurt. Wrap and let sit overnight.
I then apply more rub just prior to placing in the smoker. I do not let them warm up to room temp, but put them directly in the smoker. I use a WSM and put the ribs on as soon as the fire has started....this may explain my longer than normal cooking times.
I then cook for 3 hours at a temp of EXACTLY 225�. I will mop after the first hour or hour and a half. Just some cherry juice and oil..2/3 cherry, 1/3 oil.
I then remove the slabs from the smoker and place on large sheets of foil....1 slab per foil sheet. I then sprinkle with more rub and then mop, but not too heavily. Wrap as tightly as you can and place back in the smoker. Cook for 2 1/2 more hours...do not open the foil pouch!
After 2 1/2 hours I take out of the foil and add salt(my rub is pretty much sweet with very little salt, so use your own judgement on this step) then sauce and put back into smoker for 30 minutes. All this is done at 225�.
Like I said, I get many questions on this and I think it is because every smoker cooks differently...even the WSM will be different from region to region.
Please ask for any clarifications!
Good Luck!
Glad to share, but beware, I get many questions when folks try to duplicate this! Also, these are directions for using my WSM.
I use BB's from Sam's which weigh around 2 1/4 - 2 1/2 pounds..that is very important, as weight will be a major factor when it comes to cooking times!
The night before, rub with your favorite..I make a homemade cherry rub. Then I slather with cherry yogurt.....this gives me flavor.....that is all I am seeking in this stuff. You can use your own favorite flavored yogurt. Wrap and let sit overnight.
I then apply more rub just prior to placing in the smoker. I do not let them warm up to room temp, but put them directly in the smoker. I use a WSM and put the ribs on as soon as the fire has started....this may explain my longer than normal cooking times.
I then cook for 3 hours at a temp of EXACTLY 225�. I will mop after the first hour or hour and a half. Just some cherry juice and oil..2/3 cherry, 1/3 oil.
I then remove the slabs from the smoker and place on large sheets of foil....1 slab per foil sheet. I then sprinkle with more rub and then mop, but not too heavily. Wrap as tightly as you can and place back in the smoker. Cook for 2 1/2 more hours...do not open the foil pouch!
After 2 1/2 hours I take out of the foil and add salt(my rub is pretty much sweet with very little salt, so use your own judgement on this step) then sauce and put back into smoker for 30 minutes. All this is done at 225�.
Like I said, I get many questions on this and I think it is because every smoker cooks differently...even the WSM will be different from region to region.
Please ask for any clarifications!
Good Luck!
Mornin',shtrdave.
I usually grill pork tenderloin,but I also like it injected with a Cajun marinade,cook with a little apple at 225� to an internal of 140�.Foil it and let it rest.
If you are talking about eye of round,I inject sometimes for a different flavor.
I like oak and some pecan,cook between 225�-250� to an internal of 125�.
Foil and cooler it for a couple of hours,slice thin across the grain and serve with the au jus in the foil.
Goes good with some "horsey" sauce or horseradish and a big dill pickle.
I usually grill pork tenderloin,but I also like it injected with a Cajun marinade,cook with a little apple at 225� to an internal of 140�.Foil it and let it rest.
If you are talking about eye of round,I inject sometimes for a different flavor.
I like oak and some pecan,cook between 225�-250� to an internal of 125�.
Foil and cooler it for a couple of hours,slice thin across the grain and serve with the au jus in the foil.
Goes good with some "horsey" sauce or horseradish and a big dill pickle.
shtrdave
On the roast I just injected a prime rib roast w/bone and it came out great. I would be careful about to lean cuts of meat. I would brine or inject it if it was lean and cook it just barely done to little rare even if it was pork.It will contnue to cook after you pull it.
On the roast I just injected a prime rib roast w/bone and it came out great. I would be careful about to lean cuts of meat. I would brine or inject it if it was lean and cook it just barely done to little rare even if it was pork.It will contnue to cook after you pull it.
quote:Originally posted by shtrdave:
[qb]My objective is to keep them flavorful and moist until they are done. Does anyone inject roasts before smoking?Dave[/qb]
The basic problem when something dries out is overcooking OR not having enough "something" to keep it moist. For fatty meats, obviously the fat helps keep it moist. For pork loin, it's too lean and you can get a moist product, but you have to not overcook it to do that. You can inject moisture or even brine it, but it's real easy to overcook. It can be done. For the roasts, the same key, if there isn't enough marbling to keep it moist, something has to help; marinade, injections, bastes, etc.
I'd say most on the forum have mentioned before they like to grill loins because they really don't take the smoke well, but, other disagree.
See, no easy answer.
My suggestion. Do a loin, brine or marinade it overnight, smoke, but don't go over 150 or so (it will continue to cook after you take it out and reach about 155) see how that is and then adjust as needed. You might have to baste frequently. If you're smoking, what smoker are you using? A Cookshack?
Happy to help.
Smokin'
Stogie,
Wanted to post a special reply to you. So, Yogurt huh? First we had the Magic Mayo secret...now we have Yogurt.
Appreciate the concept, I'll give it a try sometime.
Smokin'
Wanted to post a special reply to you. So, Yogurt huh? First we had the Magic Mayo secret...now we have Yogurt.
Appreciate the concept, I'll give it a try sometime.
Smokin'
Hey Smokin'!!
I figure it is the end of the season so I might as well tell all! Between the cherry rub and the cherry yogurt, you will get a very strong cherry flavor if you taste them BEFORE applying the sauce. I like to eat and serve them this way at home for guests or myself, but for competition, I still like to sauce them.
Another thing we discovered this year...a rather simple concept.....we started salting our meat before presenting! Sweet flavors seem to be winners...hence our rubs are sweet with very little salt in them. So, a simple light shaking of some salt helped improve the taste dramatically.
Quite a concept, eh?? Adding salt to get some flavor! Sheesh!
Seems like these little things can be the difference between winning and losing.
I figure it is the end of the season so I might as well tell all! Between the cherry rub and the cherry yogurt, you will get a very strong cherry flavor if you taste them BEFORE applying the sauce. I like to eat and serve them this way at home for guests or myself, but for competition, I still like to sauce them.
Another thing we discovered this year...a rather simple concept.....we started salting our meat before presenting! Sweet flavors seem to be winners...hence our rubs are sweet with very little salt in them. So, a simple light shaking of some salt helped improve the taste dramatically.
Quite a concept, eh?? Adding salt to get some flavor! Sheesh!
Seems like these little things can be the difference between winning and losing.
Yes I am using a CS Smokette. I think after reading the posts I have a lot of ideas to try now.
Let me throw one more thing out, I know some people that do indirect rotiserie (SP) cooking with about a 10 foot spit, they will do 4 or 5 turkeys a chuck of beef and maybe a fresh ham or two at a time, it is quite a bit of work, as they put a stick of butter and some veggies in the turkeys and then wrap each with about 2lbs. of bacon, and then cook for about 5-6 hours.
My question is would a bacon wrap like they do on the turkeys be beneficial in smoking a cut of meat, also I seen in the Sausage Maker catalog something called a Larding needle, for putting the bacon or fat into thelean cuts of meat. It is difficult to find nicely marbled of fatty cut of meat in my area, although I haven't tried a butcher shop yet.
Thanks for all the input.
Dave
Let me throw one more thing out, I know some people that do indirect rotiserie (SP) cooking with about a 10 foot spit, they will do 4 or 5 turkeys a chuck of beef and maybe a fresh ham or two at a time, it is quite a bit of work, as they put a stick of butter and some veggies in the turkeys and then wrap each with about 2lbs. of bacon, and then cook for about 5-6 hours.
My question is would a bacon wrap like they do on the turkeys be beneficial in smoking a cut of meat, also I seen in the Sausage Maker catalog something called a Larding needle, for putting the bacon or fat into thelean cuts of meat. It is difficult to find nicely marbled of fatty cut of meat in my area, although I haven't tried a butcher shop yet.
Thanks for all the input.
Dave
Mornin',shtrdave.
IMHO none of the three products you mentioned would benefit much by all that bacon.
Sometimes wrapping a duck,dove or quail breast with a couple strips can help.
Some wild pig,if it is particularly lean.
Now brining those turkey's does help with moisture and speeds up the cook a little.
I think you will find that your CS takes care of many of the dryness problems,if you watch your internal temps. and don't overcook.
You should be able to go to any supermarket,that is promoting country style ribs that week, and ask the meat manager to sell you a couple of pork butts.
He'll usually have cases of them in 2 packs.
Try your super Wallyworlds for packer trim briskets.
Hope this helps some.
IMHO none of the three products you mentioned would benefit much by all that bacon.
Sometimes wrapping a duck,dove or quail breast with a couple strips can help.
Some wild pig,if it is particularly lean.
Now brining those turkey's does help with moisture and speeds up the cook a little.
I think you will find that your CS takes care of many of the dryness problems,if you watch your internal temps. and don't overcook.
You should be able to go to any supermarket,that is promoting country style ribs that week, and ask the meat manager to sell you a couple of pork butts.
He'll usually have cases of them in 2 packs.
Try your super Wallyworlds for packer trim briskets.
Hope this helps some.
I'm not tring to be smart here but wouldn't it be easier just to buy meat that all ready has the fat in it.I have found that like a pork loin that the meat is so dense that its hard to balance from being to dry .
Thanks for the info Stogie, always looking for new ideas.
Interesting Sweet / Salty concept. Hadn't thought about that, but I can see why it would work. After all, it's not about turning out what tastes good you to but what tastes good to the JUDGES! HAHAHA
shtrdave: I've know many that do the bacon trick. And it's a trick, trying to keep the bird moist while all that other stuff is going on. Brining is more reliable, but the bacon flavor is good. Don't think I like the butter inside the bird like that, try some good spices instead. And any sort of covering on the bird (like bacon) will prevent the smoke from penetrating to some extent...but you'll have some good crunchy smoked bacon.
Ricky,
Well, I think that after some point, people get tired of the fatty cuts and they want to try something different. Pork loins are available are pretty cheap some many try to smoke them. But you're right, fatty is best.
Interesting Sweet / Salty concept. Hadn't thought about that, but I can see why it would work. After all, it's not about turning out what tastes good you to but what tastes good to the JUDGES! HAHAHA
shtrdave: I've know many that do the bacon trick. And it's a trick, trying to keep the bird moist while all that other stuff is going on. Brining is more reliable, but the bacon flavor is good. Don't think I like the butter inside the bird like that, try some good spices instead. And any sort of covering on the bird (like bacon) will prevent the smoke from penetrating to some extent...but you'll have some good crunchy smoked bacon.
Ricky,
Well, I think that after some point, people get tired of the fatty cuts and they want to try something different. Pork loins are available are pretty cheap some many try to smoke them. But you're right, fatty is best.