Low CS temps

RNIT,

It's for others to explain the temp swing in a CS. However, I've cooked a lot of butt, both offset and direct. A 50 degree swing will not be noticed in the final product.

Once, in a flash rainstorm, My offset went from 240 or so down to about 125. The pelting rain was destroying the temp. My fire was all but out.

I over-compensated by thowing on two more logs, went inside, came back an hour later. The storm had stopped. The pit chamber was at close to 375. I dampered it, got it back down to around 225.

The butts were fine.

I know that doesn't directly address your question...other than, that might just be the way it is.

Most important of all: How was the food ?

Regards, Mike

quote:

Mike Rochman wrote, in part:
A 50 degree swing will not be noticed in the final product.

I wouldn't argue that point for a second, Mike. From what I've heard, butts are pretty much indestructable. However, other products are not. Many, particularly seafood, will be far more sensitive to fluctuations like that.

My concern is really a quality control issue. When I have a situation as described above I get both curious and concerned.

I know Q isn't rocket science. But, believe it or not, I am. (Or was - retired now) And the question of operating parameters and deviation from the norm is and I assume should be a significant issue.

To further heighten my concern, at one point, my large butt was 5 degrees hotter than the CS. This indicates to me that the question of the temperature control capabilities is, at minimum, a valid question.

If that didn't concern me enough, I decided to tweak the temperature control a bit and moved it to 250 (from 237). Shortly thereafter the internal temp (14 inches fom the air vent) recorded 262 degrees on one and 261 on two more I "dropped" in to double / triple check.

I'm wondering if there's a problem that is endemic or if it is unique to my unit. I suspect that it is unit specific. I assume, although I don't know, if this is considered within the CS operating specification.

quote:

I know that doesn't directly address your question...other than, that might just be the way it is.

I sure hope not, Mike. I loved smoked little necks and would never put them in an oven that was that erratic - they're too delicate and waaaaay too expensive down here.

Thanks for your interest and reply.

Ron

Ron, You make good points about temp swings with delicate foods. Sorry, I never gave that one a thought. Guess we'll have to wait for Stuart, Okie, or someone else who knows the specs of the unit, to comment.

Regards, Mike

Mike:

BTW, the butt (the first one) came out about an hour ago. The second is still in there at 199 as I write this and the CS is cooking along at 288 (on 3 calibrated Polders).

Why am I writing this? 'Cause I ate so darn much of the first one I can hardly move. The second can stay in there all night the way I feel right now.

It was, in a word, fantastic.

Hey, Smokin' if you're listenin' - I tried a batch of your Virgin Mustard sauce. Made a single batch 'cause, no matter what you said, I knew it would stink. Boy, was I wrong. Super stuff!

Ron

RNIT,

Now would I steer you wrong with a recipe? May sure you try the vinegar one too. It's really good when I pour it on Butt, but in a Food Saver freeze. When I reheat, yum yum!

As for temp variations. I warned you not to worry. Give your unit a couple of times. The heating element may take a time or two to settle down.

Do this. Do a couple of dry cooks and see how it comes out. You WILL have temp fluctuations and some may be large, but I wouldn't expect that large. Try some at different temps 200, 225, 250 and see what it maps every 45 min or so. Don't try to chase the temp.

Know this, no matter what, CS is a great company and they will help you figure it out. Their customer service is awesome and they'll help. Before, I've seen heating elements or thermocouples replaced, but give it a couple of dry cooks and see what the "average" temp is.

So, complaints? Hmmm, you ate your first butt and it was awesome!

You'll get there with your CS.

Smokin'

quote:

Smokin' wrote:
... Now would I steer you wrong with a recipe? May sure you try the vinegar one too ...

Actually, we made all three that you included in Pork Butt 101. The mustard was my favorite, my wife's was the basting sauce. Haven't tried the third one yet. Maybe tonight!

quote:

Smokin' wrote:
... As for temp variations. I warned you not to worry. Give your unit a couple of times. The heating element may take a time or two to settle down. ...

Actually, Smokin' this was the 4th smoke. It has now run over 34 hours in total.

quote:

Smokin' wrote:
... Try some at different temps 200, 225, 250 and see what it maps every 45 min or so. Don't try to chase the temp. ...

Actually, I did that yesterday and I still had temperature variations of as much as 40 degrees when set at 225. While not an electrician or electronics guru it appears that there's a "flat spot" on the heat control somewhere around 225. Turn it to 250 and see temps as high as 288. It simply seems unreasonable to me.

quote:

Smokin' wrote:
... Know this, no matter what, CS is a great company and they will help you figure it out. ...

Of that I have no doubt, Smokin'. I'm sure this will work itself out eventually - either naturally or with hardware intervention.

quote:

Smokin' wrote:
... but give it a couple of dry cooks and see what the "average" temp is. ...

"Average" temperature scares the heck out of me, Smokin'. Again, as I commented to Mike, pork butt is very forgiving while other more delicate foods, most particularly seafood, are most certainly not. For example, a temperature of 200 for smoking little necks is great - a swing to 250 is a quick way to wreck $50 worth of clams. At the same time, and while I don't claim to be a sanitarian, a drop of any duration below 180 when cooking clams or certain other shellfish could be downright dangerous.

I hope these questions are being taken in the spirit in which they are intended. There's really no need for the trumpet to sound the Rally 'round the CS flag, boys! march. It's probably an issue with one particular unit. But if it is a break-in issue, then the instrction manual is remiss in not mentioning the potential for this type of situation.

Having spent a considerable amount of time going through the archives and finding no indication that this is a common problem, I am comfortable in assuming it is unique to my unit and not a QC or design issue.

Now on to an explanation and resolution...

-Ron

quote:

DO COOKSHACK EMPLOYEES PARTICIPATE IN THE FORUM?

You bet! We try to answer your questions and occasionally offer special deals on Cookshack products. If you want to email us directly, we would love to hear from you.

Gee, I wish I had heard something back from CS folks on this issue. I opened this thread on the 30th. I understand there's a weekend involved but today has come and gone.

Is this not a legitimate question?

-Ron

Sorry I didn't get something put together on this post sooner. I started a couple of times and kept getting interupted.

All Cookshack Smokers and most smokers in general have temperature swings. On most items you cook it doesn't matter.

The Smokette and the Model 50 use pretty standard bulb and capilary style thermostats. These style thermostats are very relaible and hold up well in smokers. However, bulb and capilary style thermostats react a little slower than we would like.

Also, in the equation of temperature swings is the location of the probe and how much heat the woodbox retains. We have tried to minize these, however in the Smokette and Model 50 you will see temperature swings. The more food you have in the oven the less the swing will be. In an empty oven (worse case) with set point at 225 you will probably see temperature swings of +30 and -20 degrees. This will depend a bit on input voltage, humidity and ambient temperature.

I have cooked just about everything you might ever want to cook and have never found the temperature swings to be much of a problem. A good example of this is the restaurant chain Houston's, they use our Smokette to smoke their salmon. They smoke it at 160 degrees and never have any problems. It is a great product.

I have cooked scallops and crabs in a smokette at 150 degrees and the end product is always good. So, we don't beleive that it is a problem to worry about.

However, on the other side of this issue, about 5 years ago we decided to go through a bit of a design change in our larger smokers. In this change we designed our own controller. In the design of the controller, we added some techonology so the controller is looking at the rate of rise in temperature. This way we are able to slow it down a bit when we start to get close to set point. The controller then looks for the temperature to start to drop and then starts pulsing energy to the heating element to keep the unit from crashing way below set point. So, if you want a smoker that is has more accurate temperature controll, we would recommend the Model 75 or 150.

Bottom line however is that the Smokette and Model 50 work great for most people. And the cost of the electronic controller is more than a lot of people want to pay for a home use smoker.

Hope this makes sense, let me know if you have further questions...

Stuart

Stuart,
Thank you for concise explanation. That helped me understand how the different models are designed differently.

When you say controller, is that the same as thermostat or something different? I ask because I wondered if this controller could be physically mounted in a smokette? If so would you ever consider selling it as an option or upgrade for those who want to pay? If it would technically work, could you give an estimate on how much it would add to the price? Could it be installed by the owner or would it have to be installed before shipment at the factory (this would preclude you from completely pre-building the smokers which would be a problem).

I agree that I would not want to see Cookshack raise the price of the smokette by using higher-end expensive components but if they could be bought as options, I think it would be the best of both worlds. Thanks for listening.

John

quote:

Stuart wrote:
Also, in the equation of temperature swings is the location of the probe and how much heat the woodbox retains. We have tried to minize these, however in the Smokette and Model 50 you will see temperature swings. The more food you have in the oven the less the swing will be. In an empty oven (worse case) with set point at 225 you will probably see temperature swings of +30 and -20 degrees. This will depend a bit on input voltage, humidity and ambient temperature.

Thanks for the reply Stuart. My swings have been more than you mention but I'll just keep an eye on it. I have a line conditioner on my electrical system so the power is smooth (+/- .25v) and the tip of the probe was 14" from the vent.

Again, my concern is/was that the swings that I was seeing could be outside the norm.

We're doing clams, oysters, and lobster tomorrow. I'll let you know if we have difficulties although I am much more comfortable now than I was before your reply.

Smokin' - if you're listenin' NO! We're not going to use your virgin mustard sauce on the clams, oysters or the lobsters. Just butter! Tried to put a rub on the lobsters but tey just won't stand still long enough!

-Ron

Hey, Red.

In some instances, I see a rapid fluctuaing (+/-40F) temp that I would guess is due to moisture getting on the probe tip or perhaps cold eddies of air that are quickly working their way up and out the vent hole. Now, I know you are saying that cold air sinks, but a sufficient steady-state convection cell could overcome this buoyancy effect. (Just like bubbles sinking in a fresh glass of Guinness).

Anyway, my point is, have you tried covering the vent hole? I tried it before and I put a terrible wood stain on my 'stainless' steel top, but if I were to try this again I would use a nickle. Something just large enough to cover the hole, but not large enough to let the smoke interact with the smoker top.

Good luck.

quote:

Pete wrote:
but a sufficient steady-state convection cell could overcome this buoyancy effect.

Hey! You sound like you've been hanging around with Jim Corbin of Channel 12 or John Ghiorski(sp?) - maybe even Salty (no school - Foster - Gloucester!) Brine!

quote:

(Just like bubbles sinking in a fresh glass of Guinness).

Know them well! I've sunk with them many times myself!

quote:

have you tried covering the vent hole?

No, Pete. But it was dead calm, ambient was about 90 during most of the cook and relative humidity was around 75%. To verify my readings I added two additional probes - 1 left of center and 1 right of center, both at 14" vent to probe tip.

I think, in the final analysis, that what Stuart said has to be considered gospel. It's just the nature of the beast. It certainly doesn't seem to have affected the end product. (Just sampled some warm smoked Pt. Judith flounder. Yum!)

Thanks for the help.

Buddy for President! (Don't worry, guys, it's a Rhode Island thing! )

Ron