Problems with Rubs..frustrated

Two issues.

1. Foil. When you wrap the outer layer WILL loosen up. Can't solve that unless you don't wrap

2. Humidity. One issue could be the high humidity in the smoker not "setting" the rub.

Couple of solutions.

1. Open the door and let humidity out. YES it will increase cooking times, but it will help set the rub.

2. Finish whatever on a grill to crisp up the outside. But don't do it so long that you burn or overcook it.

Thanks Russ, I understand but lemme ask ya. When I pull the ribs, brisket etc the spice rub seems dry on top if I grilled it I am afrayed The spices will burn. It seems like the spice rub just lays on top.

Could it be too much salt, I can not seem to get them to melt if you will, should I use more sugar, are more slather? The last batch of ribs I used a commercial rub to try and get better results,,,no luck. Any more thoughts

Is there enough sugar????????

GeiyserQ since I used a commerical rub on the ribs. I guess that should be ok. The Brisket rub from the forum here has no sugar in the rub. There was oj,coke in the marinade, Then the sugar, both brown and honey was in the finish. But the spice rub was already dry on top when I foiled. I really can not figger it out. I did open the cooker with the brisket because it was steaming too much in my opinon.

Should the rub be like a paste? When I used the mustard slather I then added the rub. Let is sit for two hours then re dusted with the rub and into the smokette.

The flavor, texture was ok, appearance leave alot to be desired. I am befuddled

Scott,

I have never, repeat never, got a a good finish when I used prepared mustard. Also, I am not sure it ever gave the product a better flavor than just using a dry rub. If you use the mustard for a holding surface for the dry rub, try olive oil instead.

I use Kansas City dry rub for ribs. A homemade dry rub for brisket, a Two greyhound's recipe from this site and just salt and black pepper for fish. It is rare when my company asks for BBQ sauce.

smokemullet

What rub did you use?

I know there are some folks that swear by mustard slathers,but personally I'd save it for hotdogs and bologna sandwiches.

Foiling will take the rub away,as said above.

A light even coat of rub with sugar,1/2 hr before going into a 250º cooker,should get you started.

Like smokin' says,open the door and let some moisture out.

You can also add some rub,later in the cook,or just before serving-Memphis style.

I'd do away with the mustard slather. I use it on butts, but not ribs on my smokette. Here's a link to some pics I did of some ribs a long time ago. The post with the recipe is on this forum - somewhere!!!! lol. Might have to do a search. I think these look pretty yummy!

http://homepage.mac.com/copyconn/PhotoAlbum20.html

Thanks,
C'Nooga

Guys thanks for the input. I used simple yellow mustard mixed 50/50 with honey. Never used mustard on anything before. Cept bloney sammiches. I thought I would try it on the baby backs. Still same problem.

Tom, Smokin, you are right I opened the door a few times, hell my temp probe went haywire, went to 160 inside of 60 mins. I think from all the moisture on the braided wire. But lemme ask ya if the humidity inside is high how come the rub looks dry when ready to come off the smoker.

I dunno I am still searching for the elusive brisket, this time my spices were like a layer of yuck and I over cooked trying to compensate for a wacko thermo.My ribs while delish and tender etc do NOT have that competition look. Eye candy means alot.

Could it be the smokette. I have just started using foil on the base inside. Yep punched a hole Before I just cleaned with lemon juice and a scaper. Trying to save some time.

Any additional thoughts, Oh by the way I used a rub called "Wolf Rub" buddie of mine makes/markets it.

Frayed,

To get that "competition look" I think you're referring to you'll need to put on a finishing glaze right before you take them off the cooker. Some do it one hour before, others 30 minutes before, sometimes just when you take them off. Most ribs do look pretty darn dry if you don't glaze them.

Here's a pretty simple glaze you put on AS SOON AS you take them out of the cooker. It works pretty well....I kind of like to tweak it a little though.

http://www.dannysbbq.com/recipes.asp?rid=9

Take care,
C'Nooga

Frayed knot,I'm no brisket expert,but I recommend keeping it simple to most folks.

I realize there are a few folks here tossing around a recipe with lots of marinade,etc.

The tradional CS cooks so moist,that most folks don't foil.

Put a good heavy coat of a quality commercial rub,like Cookshack's Brisket rub,some turbinado sugar and let it cook-until done.

One guy with Cookshacks, that we have posting here,also was gracious enough to give this technique.

Darcy's Indirect Cooked Brisket

Welp..okie dokie guys I have read both threads and will try em exacctly as described.

IF any competeing cooks out there want to email me their winning recipe and directions I would sure appreciate it. Will trade a winning chili recipe! I do not have any intention of competeing on the "Q" circut So I am safe. I will keep your recipe as close to the vest as I would expect my chili recipe.

Any takers email frayedknot29576@aol.com

Thanks for all the advice guys.

Well we don't like to trade via email we prefer to share.

The problem with my competition ribs are they're on the FE, not the Electrics.

But 275 is the base temp, simple rub and a lot of care.

Sometimes, I this isn't pointed at anyone, people tend to overcomplicate things.

When they get out of wack, and don't work, cut out the variations and go simple.

I can get pretty great ribs with a simple rub and smoke. Sauce on the place. Adding slathers, and bastes and multiple layers or rub and soaks of one variety or another...each ONE of those can have a different impact.

You asked a couple of times and not sure it got answered. To make a rub "crust" can be a complicated issue. Too much moisture and it won't dry out, and it won't stick. Too much humidity in the smoker might keep the rub from sticking.

Most rubs will not penetrate more than 1/4" of the meat. Can't state that as FACT, but simple science tells me so. But it can go deeper. Depends on meat type, the rub makeup, humidities...lots of things.

I would back off on the multiple steps, try some simple rubs and see how that works. When I cook my briskets, foiled or not, the rub never comes off, it's cooked into the meat, so I'm not sure the difference.

But HEY, if it was easy, everyone would be an expert. Half the fun is figuring out the little stuff.

We'll get you there.

Russ

I think to sum up what all the good folks on the forum have said is "Keep it simple" until you have reached one desired effect.

Shoot for and acheive one step at a time.

Take good notes (right Jack?).

Once you've got step one mastered, move on to the next. Mixing too many variables into the equation makes for complication and the inability to replicate results.

Just my $0.02 worth!

Thanks Wheelz, Smokin, Tom and everyone else. Tommorrow I am going back to the basics. "Smithfield Baby Baby Backs" Simple salt and peppa rub. Little apple wood and some finishing sauce. The sauce is from a forum member hope he likes the chili recipe. I made the sauce a little while ago and I hope it tastes as good on the ribs as my finger!
I will report back and let everyone know. I am not going to foil, simply cook we will see. AND YEP I AM TAKING NOTES..

Interestingly, I find ribs the most elusive. Brisket will be next. But I gotta get this right first. BTW the neighborhood loves my "Q" but I am not totally satisfied. Now there that speaks volumes doesn't it.

I have a buddy going to open a "Q" joint here in Myrtle Beach and I keep telling him Cookshack is the only way to go...I just gotta back it up.

Thanks guys for all the input.

I started smokin stuff about 30 years ago. Started with a Weber Kettle and kept working up to more elaborate and complicated gadgets until finally I said "enough". Sold the stick burner and got a Smokette just to simplify life. I've now had the Smokette for about 6 months and consider myself to be the master of simple. I skin the (St. Louis style) ribs, put on a medium to light coating of rub, chuck em in the smoker, set the temp to 225 and don't look at em for 4 hours. That's just about the time it takes em to get perfectly done in my smoker. They come out with a nice bark and good good flavor. I think the trick is to get a good balance of rub and spice so that no one flavor overpowers the other. Remember, ribs have a large surface area so it doesn't take much rub to flavor them.

Here's a rub recipe that I developed over the years and it has served me well. It only makes about a cupful just multiply it to make a bigger batch. One thing I think might be your problem is using too much rub. Whenever I tried really loading on the rub the ribs came out dry on the surface just like you said yours did.

4 tablespoons Paprika
2 tablespoons Salt
3 tablespoons Brown sugar
1 tablespoon Cumin
1 tablespoon Chili powder
1 tablespoon Black Pepper
3/4 teaspoon Cayenne pepper
1 tablespoon garlic powder
1 tablespoon onion powder
2 tablespoons dried oregano -- pulverized in a spice grinder
1/2 teaspoon dry mustard
1/4 teaspoon cinnamon


Mix thoroughly.

Use liberally on butt and sparingly on ribs.

Smithfield ribs may well be pumped with salt solution,so watch how much salt you put on them and how long you let it set.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom:
Smithfield ribs may well be pumped with salt solution,so watch how much salt you put on them and how long you let it set.

Some of their hams are.. although I don't know if it applies to all of their styles. Certainly their country hams are very salty.. on purpose.. so there might be a bunch of truth to your comment, Tom

Just read the labels on the Smithfield products. If they are "enhanced", it MUST be stated on the label somewhere.

I've seen them both ways now. Sam's had the enhanced, local grocery had non-enhanced.

i used danny's glaze yesterday, that c'nooga wrote about. i am trying to post pics, but its beyond me how to... any assitance? heres one try lets see what happens.
ok, i used my home-made smoker. smoked the ribs for four hours. hickory, a dab of mesquite, a double dab of apple. to danny's glaze i added about a half cup of honey, ablout a half cup of tomato based sauce, and upped the vinegar to half cup. i understand now, why you cannot pet the dog, or have a beer before glazing. you gotta have that glaze hot and ready, and put her on right away! works pretty darn good

cb.

Send me the photos and I'll edit them. Posting is easy, but it's not if you're not experienced with digital photo hosting, sorry.

Russ

thanks russ for all your help. i kinda got lucky, just hiting all the buttons, and poof!
my problem was not knowing where to start from.
never did find that pad and pencil..heehe
i had to throw in a pci of some butts, that i also glazed

How did you cook those? They look great and I know the first person that sees them will ask.

Don't you have your own style smoker, not a CS?

Smokin,

What ya think about the rack on the right? Put it in a box with some nice salad and give it an 8?

That's what I'm thinking.

C'Nooga

Well, finally here we go. Sorry about not posting before but been tied up with another hobby (restoring a civil war cannon).

But I think I am on the right track now. Here is a picture from some of the product I did this week.


Tom, yep you are right they were a little salty, and YES THEY WERE ENHANCED. I can correct that, thanks for the heads up. Nice bark great flavor. Just a little bit on the over done side, I was in a "discussion" with my sweetie!


They still had a wonderful flavor and were the right look! Don't you agree.



I cooked them on 225 for 5.5 hrs, a little long based on the above. One was simply salt and pepper and one was with a rub. Then in the last 30 mins slathered the sauce. They had a nice bark and great flavor with the sauce. This forum is amazing!

Thanks to all that helped and threw their .02 worth in and helped out with my dilemma...I am sure appreciative. AND YES going back to the basics and starting again IS the best way to correct a problem.

Thanks guys!!

quote:

I was in a "discussion" with my sweetie!

So...cooked 5 minutes too long?

They look pretty darn good to me.

frayed not., them ribs look mighty delicious.
ify wife would give me 5 minutes, maybe i could restore my old war cannon too.....heehee

ok, about my ribs. they were not, repeat not, done on a cs. i am considering a cs for my next restaurant, but first i gotta see some product.
my smoker is home-made, split face, two-sided, two burner w/wood, with two shelves on one side, one shelf on the other. top shelf will hold 8 racks of ribs, bottom racks will hold twelve butts each. the entire smoke would require a crane to move.
i had pics, somewhere....
now the ribs.... i rubbed down with honey, garlic salt, black pepper, and mcormics bbq rub.
let them set an hour, while the smoke got just right(after the initial smoke, and the wood was becoming coals..). then smoked at about 220 for several hours. turning left to right after one hour, fliping over after three, turning left to right after 3.5.
(all the turning due to un-even heat, and the learning curve comes into play)
then, i made the glaze. i altered danny's recipe a bit. i used half cup of vinegar, 1/3 cup mustard,1/3 cup honey, 1 cup brown sugar, 1/3 tomato based sauce. heat til simmering.
i brushed each rack as soon as they came out of smoker. let them set for pictures, them wrapped the pans with foil, and put them on top shelf for 35 min. this gives them a little more tenderness, without steaming too bad.
hmmmmmm

best thing was that the initial rub was throughly melted into the meat, probably due to the hot glaze. thats why i tried it on the butts too. same thing, the dry rub was no longer visible after applying the glaze.
the effects of the glaze on the flavor was not extreme, and that was good. i bet a good orange glaze would look even better....

Coffeebluff, Cookshack for the restaraunt. I gotta tell ya there is a restaraunt here at the beach (Myrtle Beach) and they have a 'shack and their product is very good. The fill it turn it on and go home for the night. I have a buddy trying to open a "Q" restaraunt and he is probably going to use a Cookshack, I have been pushing him that way big time. Something to be said for the set and forget when you got a million other things to worry about. By the way your product looks great. Thanks for the tips.

(SIDE NOTE) And yep the cannons we have, guarded Ft Sumter, during the Civil War. We "found" 22 of them mostly Columbiads, big guns, on the ocean floor. Very interesting seizeing the wreck, getting ownership etc. Got this one sold so gotta get it ready. It sat on the ocean floor for 150 yrs,was in desalination for 2 yrs and now it is hurry up..sheesh