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Hey guys,

Ok this may be a touchy subject and pardon me for writing a small book, but it's something I've wanted to ask for sometime now. I maybe from Portland and we here can be a liberal, tree huggin, tofu eatin crowd but with all the health concerns regarding preservitives why would anyone use tender quick or 'pink salt'/ sodium nitrate/nitrite in thier bbq?? Especially when it's gonna be eaten within 3-7 days from the cooking date?

I am very aware of the need to preserve the meat and I know it's a common practice that commercial bbq joints use it..it's to protect the consumer and increase shelf life. When I go out for bbq (which is rare cause I got my CS)I can pick up that artificial "too salty" flavor component right away and it's not just a one place...it's all over. Kinda like MSG in cheap Chinese food..it's totally not needed!! It tastes like crap!

Now I'm no health nut and I will NEVER preach here but I really don't want that stuff inside me. So I ask, why is it so important to use and why do I see it included so often with bbq recipes?? Proper brining will yield to 'tender' meat right? Proper cooking methods will also yield a desirable result, yes?

Several months ago I made my first attemp at making my own bacon...one of the things I wanted to do the moment I got the CS. I think commercial bacon is vile, it's commonly smoked with corn cobs or even worse just with liquid smoke.......YYYYUUUCCKKK!!! The good stuff is applewood smoked and usually very exoensive. So I made my own:
After some research I got a couple of small trimmed and meaty pork bellies, scored them, brined them in a soulution of water, apple juice, kosher salt, black pepper, and a few cloves. After 6 days I took out the bellies, dried them in front of a fan for an hour, then rubbed them lightly with light brown sugar. I then smoked them at the CS's lowest setting for about 6 or so hours over apple wood. The results were excellent for my first time, although a bit too sweet for my bacon pleasure so I'll just decrease the amount of sugar next itme. The bacon was rich and smokey and most important not full of chemicals.

My family and I finished off one belly within the first week. All the while I was inspecting the bacon to see if it was still good and there were no problems. I froze the other belly and ate it a month or so later and it actually tasted BETTER than the first...I guess the meat had time to 'settle' a bit or something...but the point is the meat was fine with out the use of preservatives. Cutting it while frozen also helped me get those really thin slices.

OK so shoot me, I'm long winded but I'm really curious...I would like to try to smoke a ham..not resmoke a commercially purchased ham but one I make from scratch..with something that big do I REALLY NEED to use that stuff?? I don't want to. I know there are like a 1000 recipes for ham here but my thoughts are to repeat what I did with the bacon..of course increasing brining and cooking times and temparatures.

Your thoughts, ideas, comments, concerns, apathy???

Smiler Smiler

lynnae
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Come on lynnae, tell us what you really think Big Grin

I'm with you, it's good to challenge conventional concepts, I'll just defer to some of the food scientists and let them help discuss the issue.

My thoughts.

I don't see it in BBQ receipes that much anymore (BBQ defined as cooking above 150 to 300) not grilling (above 350 or so). I do see it in older recipes that get reproduced and copied a lot (in fact a few in brining) but I don't use it at all. In brining, as long as I keep the brining meat cold (below 40) I don't use it at all.

Unless, and this is where you need to get to the meat preserving issues, is cold smoking.

The concept is if the meat is going to be in the danger zone (40 to 140) for any length of time, as it would in a cold smoke, then it needs to have something to reduce the issue of bacterial growth. Just cold smoke a ham without it and I'm certainly not going to eat it.

Eating it within 3 to 7 days won't kill the bugs, they're still there.
Hi there Smokin,

Happy Belated Birthday to you!! Nice to meet a fellow virgo!

Thanks for the response. Yes the bugs are there, no doubt about it, however, under proper refidgerated conditions and post-cooking/quick chilling procedures, the 5-7 day shelf life should keep the bacterial growth to a slow roar so the 'amount' of bugs consumed wouldn't be harmful to a healthy person. The danger zone range (internal food temperature for a certain time) goes for a maximum time window of four hours. After that the food MUST be rapidly cooled down, frozen (and reheated to 142* when eaten later) or eaten right away.

Ok I understand that using a preservative added to the cure/brine would aid in controlling the bacterial growth within the cooking and post storage process BUT, and correct me if I'm wrong, proper brining (with a good salt/sugar/acidulation/water ratio)will just as easily, and without the chemical additives, hold said bacterial growth to a minimum during a slow and low cook/smoke. Right?? How about using ascorbic acid (vitamin c) instead of sodium nitrates?? Will the cooking process mute the effectiveness of ascorbic acid? I'm just throwin it out there....

What did they do in the ol' days?? You were there right?


OK OK don't ban me from here, please!!!! I was just jokin, Smokin

Cool
quote:
Originally posted by lynnae:
[qb] I am very aware of the need to preserve the meat and I know it's a common practice that commercial bbq joints use it..it's to protect the consumer and increase shelf life. When I go out for bbq (which is rare cause I got my CS)I can pick up that artificial "too salty" flavor component right away and it's not just a one place...it's all over. Kinda like MSG in cheap Chinese food..it's totally not needed!! It tastes like crap!
[/qb]
Hi lynnae,

You say you can taste nitrates/nitrites in the meat you get at bbq restaurants. That shouldn't be. There's no need to use nitrite cures in the stuff they serve at your average Q joint (chicken/butt/brisket/ribs, etc) and I'd be surprised if they're actually using any.

Nitrates and nitrites are not added by the producers to fresh chicken, beef, pork, etc. Salt yes, nitrites no. The restaurant would have to add it themselves if it were really in it.

As far as Q goes (i.e. excluding thing like deli style meat, dry cured products, etc), nitrate/nitrite cures are normally only used in products that spend more than 4 hours in the danger zone, i.e. 40-140 F.

In Q type dishes, it's typically limited to sausage (commonly) and the occaisional gigantic turkey cooked low and slow (uncommonly). There are few other cured items like pastrami but that's about it.

Before you assume they're serving you nitrites at your local Q joint, you definetely should ask them.

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