So ya wanna start a restaurant?

A home party by CaterGreat

I agree with you Topchef. Your information is on target. Where did you get your 50% failure info? Start up restaurants have a near 90% failure rate the first two years...(excluding chains and franchises, which have a much higher success rate)

Catering operations are much more deadly... approaching 97% failure rate.... reason being is the time it takes to establish a catering operation... when you open the doors of a restaurant, you have heavy business the first day.... with catering, you always 6 months away from your first wedding.... it takes about 5 years to establish a strong name and reputation......

I don't recommend any non foodie to start a catering operation.... ever..... restaurants have an easier time with catering... that is how I started mine... now it is free standing and not affiliated with my restaurant...

Carl

quote:

Originally posted by CaterGreat:
[QB
Your information is on target. Where did you get your 50% failure info? Start up restaurants have a near 90% failure rate the first two years.
Carl [/QB]

CaterGreat, your info is probably more current than mine. The percentage figure I quoted dates back a few years and could possibly include chains & franchises...in which case I stand corrected.

If you included chains and franchises, then yes it would be 50%.... Chains and franchises because they have cash, chains have it through stockmarket cash and franchises have it because they won't sell franchises to the unqualified and under capitalized - ( those who don't have lots of cash)

Yet mom and pops operations are generally well meaning people who just jump into this clueless..... The ones who DO make it are the ones who have the background and the CASH to make it happen... or they hired a consultant like me to teach them how to make it happen.... I have recommended more people NOT do it than TO do it. About 90%, I recommmend not to do it... (interesting percentage, huh)

Carl

Now we're cookin, here! Thanks TC and CG for the advice... everything you've said makes sense to me. I suppose I will have to do some restaurant work to get my feet wet... I would plan to consult and build an appropriate plan, as well as the ensure solid funding, so as to end up in the winning 10 percent. All of this if, of course, I actually decide to go down this path.

More questions. My interest would be specifically in BBQ. I'm in Westchester County, about 25 miles north of NYC. There seem to be very few straight Q joints around here. Some OK Q in NY, and a number of restaurants that have ribs and "faux Q" in the menu. I'm thinking a pure Q joint, down and dirty (but clean, of course). Question is: I'm worried about the NATURE of Q, as a meal selection. That is, I'm starting to think that while everyone seems to "love" Q, maybe very few would eat it more than once a month or so... and that could be a problem. I'm worried that for most folks Q is a bit too intense/fatty/heavy... and it would be an occasional thing. Maybe that's why there are so few Q joints in this region? Any insight on the prospects for BBQ restaurants specifically? I've spent quite some time thinking about the setup, the menu, how I would design it and approach it. While I would go with beef brisket, pulled pork, ribs, brisket chili, chicken, I could also make some accommodation for a few lighter items. But what do you guys think about this "fundamental" worry?

woodburner -

I hear what you're saying but I would tend to disagree with your concerns - for several reasons. Look at concepts such as Mickey D's, Nathan's, Morton's of Chicago, KFC...they're all famous for doing one concept well. Here in Vermont, there's a guy who parks behind a Mobil station every summer for 5 months with an old school bus and huge charcoal grill. He does nothing but BBQ Ribs and Chicken...along with Cole Slaw, Baked Beans and Potato Salad. I guarantee you'll stand in a 15 minute line waiting for your food. Why? It's done well.

Westchester, NY aint exactly Podunck, USA. You have umpteen million people within a 30 mile radious. "Build it and They will come."

Catch the drift?

I recently spent many months planning a Q joint. I decided to do only take-out and catering.....with a few tables to sit at and wait. I priced every single food item and calculated my mark-ups..all based on the other 3 joints in town.

Why just take-out? MUCH simpler than a full blown restaurant. Not as many employee hassles, also so much cheaper. I had advanced discussions with Famous Dave's franchise.....$1.3 - $2.6 million to start-up! A little steep for me!

I still have the plan available and may ultimately do it, but here is what turned me against opening this spring.......

You simply cannot make money on ribs...especially with the prices we saw earlier this year. The mark-ups are simply not there...at least for a small start-up operation. This is crucial because you want your ribs to be the "signature" item...the one everybody raves about. You will make much more money on pulled pork and brisket sammiches and your sides.

NO menu item for kids. Again, crucial! If you stick with straight Q, you will not need deep fryers(which add another entire level of costs). But, kids simply love deep fried things. I have served enough parties to realize Q is NOT a big favorite of kids...yes you will have some that love it, but NOT many. So, you will need to add other equipment and different selections to the menu....which equals even more costs. I was somewhat encouraged by the fact that there is a McD's right across the street, but that meant Mom had to make yet another stop.

Q is a summertime meal. This one worried me the most....Q is SO MUCH identified with summer that I wonder how popular it is when the snow and ice start to fly? Also, the fact that this area of the midwest(Indiana) is a basic meat and potatoes area. Again is Q regarded as a special once-in-a-great-while "treat"?

So, those are a few of the items I was concerned about. Like I said, I still have the plan and all the marketing prowess to do this, just wasn't the right time.

This is a great discussion and let's keep it going and save it! It can be a truly great resource and I would be able to link folks directly to this discussion thread...more traffic for the site!

Stogie

Stogie: Good concerns... I also worry about a full-blown, full service restaurant. I've thought about the simple "Q-joint" approach, with disposable everything, mostly takeout, and a limited menu. I've also thought about a step van setup, just working 8 or 9 months a year. But you'd still need a kitchen somewhere, wouldn't you? Guys: Is a step van the lowest animal (literally) on the food chain??

Nice questions and comments. Why does a restaurant succeed? Sometimes it is a mystery. I have seen great high volume restaurants open duplicate restaurants in other cities and fail. Who knows?

I will say this. I have never seen a clean restaurant with their act together, fast friendly service and top quality food fail. Usually one of the above components is missing. Heck, I know many dirty, outdated restaurants with average food thrive because of top notch service.... Service is the key.... You can forgive an occasional mediocre meal if the service is phenominal.

25 miles north of NYC? Don't worry about healthy.... Fix fabulous Q and you've got it.
Don't spend a ton on decor or fluff.. it will just confuse people.

If I were to open a Q joint I would go for the lowest overhead and focus on great equipment and fast turnover... In West TN, there are more Q joints than Churches., ok, maybe not, but there are a lot.

A Q joint that did not make it here in the "restaurant biz" sold their frontage to Walgreens drug store and they built a small building on the back of the lot (which was a corner lot) and have only drive through pick up. They don't even cater! This guy is kicking ass. You cannot go there and find no one in line...

His restaurant was terrible, but he had good Q. So, he takes the money from selling to Walgreens and builds a little place and puts the rest in the bank..... He is making much more money.

The KEY to success is keeping your overhead low.

I am a successful caterer and own a franchised steak house, I have high overhead at both places. I am an idiot... But, I have my name signed to big notes... what can I do? Fortunately, both operations are doing real well..... Remember,during slow times, notes have to be paid....

The restaurant is high volume and makes money in spite of itself. I am finding ways to streamline the catering operation. I have a banquet hall at my catering facility. I rent my facility regularly and the income from the rent pays all of my high overhead there... So, the off premise catering, which is 75%, has no overhead... hope that wasnt confusing.

My advice after many years in this is keep that overhead low and keep it simple.

On Kids...
If you are drive through only, forget the kids... If you insist on having a dining room, then buy a deep fryer and great chicken strips and fries...

On design.... come see me, I will show you every possible design and take you on a tour of successful and not so successful joints that will make you scratch your head, but will enlighten you to the squirrel headed customer...

Remember, you aint that smart, no matter who you are... so research, research, and take a few road trips, hire an expert to assist you and you will save money and make more money to justify the fees and cost associated with that research....

Carl

Sounds to be as if you did your homework Stogie, and a good job at that. I can't tell you how many folks moved to Vermont and bought Inns, B&B's and restaurants during the run of The Bob Newhart Show because folks thought that being successful dinner party hosts qualified them to operate a 12 room inn/restaurant. Aint too many of 'em left.

I don't necessarily agree that Q is a strictly summer thing...but take-out is. In order to make a living at it year round, I'm afraid you'd have to bite the bullit and build out your menu with burgers, fries and maybe grilled steaks and chicken. Look at a Tony Roma's menu and that's what you have to match to get folks thru the door 12 months.

The good news is you still have your fallback position of the summer takeout Q stand

I agree with topchef. The part about your friends playing golf ect... Just remember, when you own your own Q-Joint, you'd better be prepard to marry the operation. It takes ALL of your time. If it's successful, it can be very rewarding.

I am a Electrical Contractor in N.W.,But on the weekends I cook 200-300# of product. Maybe just ribs one week end then butts the next. Have a approved kitchen and Insurance!
last week I cooked 150# of Denver sides for a pow wow in Arizona, when they went out the door they were paid for.(No overdue accounts) I do not usually provide the side dishes, but I will if the price is right and I have the time. I have a list of customer phone numbers that I call, (I kinda know what they like.) I can sell all the product that I want to cook on the phone in 20 minutes. I hand slice the Briskets, ribs and etc., if they want them sliced. Provide the sauce in quarts or gallons only. Just ordered 2 cases of spares and 2cases of briskets, and 30# of hot links for this weekend. Just me, Low over head, and good profits. This is what I like. If I did'nt have to buy that damm insurance and. I just might retire and do this full time (LOL) Debest1 LOVE THAT BBQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Count yourself lucky debest1 --- it's few and far between that a caterer can cherry pick product & customers as you've described!

Keep those insurance payments current. Today it seems like money going down the drain; tomorrow it save you from bankruptcy.

Keep up the good work!

Very good discussion. Last week, I was talking with our local Department of Health Event Supervisor regarding some upcoming events. Some how, we got to talking about “commissaries” and I asked him if he knew of any restaurants that would rent commissary space. He told me, “The best source for that is the larger churches in the area. They all have certified kitchens and most are willing to rent space.”

I got to thinking about it on the way home and thought a guy could trade a one year lease of commissary space for one or two catered gigs (depending on their price of course). You should get more catering gigs from other people in the church having parties and such.

Question: Can some of you provide information to reasonable event or catering insurance companies? (if there is such a thing).

Take care and enjoy your BBQ

hey cyclop-I have thought about what you want to do. In fact I was going to suggest paying for the lic. for the year. I am REAL good friends with a family who ownes a package store. The sell beer and sandwiches. The fee for the lic. is only $100.00 and that way it gives ya a place to call home. I bet I could even use their big walk in coolers for my meat, that is if they get a little of it.LOL Hope maybe that gave ya an idea.

debest1 -

I'd sure be interested in learning more about your operation! That sounds almost perfect for me! )