Rodney posted this interesting article to Ray Basso's Forum
BBQ Meats
Original Post
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Hi.
Great article! I have to agree that it is getting hard to find pork with a decent amount of fat cap.
What exactly do you find is the problem with frozen meats? Flavor, texture?
Thanks!
Kate
Great article! I have to agree that it is getting hard to find pork with a decent amount of fat cap.
What exactly do you find is the problem with frozen meats? Flavor, texture?
Thanks!
Kate
Seems like sometimes the butts and ribs take longer to tender up.
There are some top Texas cooks that teach freezing brisket, and maybe pork,as part of the breakdown and tendering process.
We have to buy good packers when we can,age as long as we can,and then freeze.
Can't say that I'm smart enough to tell the difference from the eatin' or the judges scores.
Now this new young chicken and lowered holding temps to call fresh is a whole new ballgame.
There are some top Texas cooks that teach freezing brisket, and maybe pork,as part of the breakdown and tendering process.
We have to buy good packers when we can,age as long as we can,and then freeze.
Can't say that I'm smart enough to tell the difference from the eatin' or the judges scores.
Now this new young chicken and lowered holding temps to call fresh is a whole new ballgame.
Tom seems to get me fired up with some of his topics. First it was Enhanced Meats, and now its the flavorless pork.
Carolyn Wells on pork in the last 5 years, "the producer has bred the taste right out of them". Julia Childs had the same complaint.
The producer is raising the type hog the packer is demanding. National Pork Producers Assn. tried telling us the consumer is demanding lean. That is B.S! We have visited with thousands of consumers while serving on the MN Pork Producers Promotions Commitee, and while vending our own pork at the Farmers Markets we are members of.
We have yet to hear a single complaint that pork is to fat! Flavor molecules attach to fat. No fat, no flavor.
On my most recent Grade and Yield kill sheet from John Morrell, in which ever hog they bought from me is listed individually, I received the following payments as an example:
198# carcass wt; 268# live wt; 45% lean [fat one]; dockage: -$11.88; CARCASS VALUE: $125.91
199# carcass wt.; 269# live wt; 55% lean [lean one]; premium: +$7.96; CARCASS VALUE: $146.44
Difference between fat and lean: $20.53 per head.
A SMALL producer in todays agriculture might raise 2000 hogs a year. With a typical spread between a fat and lean carcass of $20.53 per head.
$20.53 X 2000 head/year = $41,060. net profit per year difference.
Now factor in that the top 1/3 is exported, the middle 1/3 go to restraunts, and the bottom 1/3 gets sold locally to the consumer, and you will see why Carolyn has a legitamate complaint.
Carolyn Wells on pork in the last 5 years, "the producer has bred the taste right out of them". Julia Childs had the same complaint.
The producer is raising the type hog the packer is demanding. National Pork Producers Assn. tried telling us the consumer is demanding lean. That is B.S! We have visited with thousands of consumers while serving on the MN Pork Producers Promotions Commitee, and while vending our own pork at the Farmers Markets we are members of.
We have yet to hear a single complaint that pork is to fat! Flavor molecules attach to fat. No fat, no flavor.
On my most recent Grade and Yield kill sheet from John Morrell, in which ever hog they bought from me is listed individually, I received the following payments as an example:
198# carcass wt; 268# live wt; 45% lean [fat one]; dockage: -$11.88; CARCASS VALUE: $125.91
199# carcass wt.; 269# live wt; 55% lean [lean one]; premium: +$7.96; CARCASS VALUE: $146.44
Difference between fat and lean: $20.53 per head.
A SMALL producer in todays agriculture might raise 2000 hogs a year. With a typical spread between a fat and lean carcass of $20.53 per head.
$20.53 X 2000 head/year = $41,060. net profit per year difference.
Now factor in that the top 1/3 is exported, the middle 1/3 go to restraunts, and the bottom 1/3 gets sold locally to the consumer, and you will see why Carolyn has a legitamate complaint.
Yessir,that's why I like these little posts. 
Roger,
I want one of those 45% babies for BarbeQlossal.
I want one of those 45% babies for BarbeQlossal.
Fred,
Got one all picked out. Nice fat rascal.
I named him Mr. Yumm-Yumm.
Send up some more rub. He ate the first batch already and is starting to get a nice garlicy smell to him; and do I detect some cloves?
If I knew how to operate this dang computer, I would post Iowa States results of feeding an aromatic diet to hogs. You are what you eat.
Roger
Got one all picked out. Nice fat rascal.
I named him Mr. Yumm-Yumm.
Send up some more rub. He ate the first batch already and is starting to get a nice garlicy smell to him; and do I detect some cloves?
If I knew how to operate this dang computer, I would post Iowa States results of feeding an aromatic diet to hogs. You are what you eat.
Roger
Roger,
Is that like feeding mayo to tuna so you catch tuna salad?
Is that like feeding mayo to tuna so you catch tuna salad?
Roger,
I don't know a lot about hogs. What breed do you raise? And what do you think about these "heirloom" breeds like what they raise in some places? I think hogs are pretty animals and are the tastiest too. Would you tell me your thoughts on them?
I really respect what you do. I did about 4 years of trying to be self-sufficient for my family alone on vegetables, fruits, rabbit meat, and have seen what a job that can be. It was a real eye-opener to what any small farmer faces. I can't imagine how anybody can produce enough meat for us all just in the states alone.
Thanks,
Peggy
I don't know a lot about hogs. What breed do you raise? And what do you think about these "heirloom" breeds like what they raise in some places? I think hogs are pretty animals and are the tastiest too. Would you tell me your thoughts on them?
I really respect what you do. I did about 4 years of trying to be self-sufficient for my family alone on vegetables, fruits, rabbit meat, and have seen what a job that can be. It was a real eye-opener to what any small farmer faces. I can't imagine how anybody can produce enough meat for us all just in the states alone.
Thanks,
Peggy
Peggy, The Heirloom Pork are the old, old breeds.
I started raising heirlooms almost by accident. I needed a rugged hog to withstand our winters while being housed outside. One of my barns is 105 years old. I remodeled it in 1977 and it looks like it can go another 105.
I tried raising some of the hybreds farmers and packers find desirable for ultra lean. They were too frail, stressy and hard to work with.
The breeds I use are:
Chester White on the maternal side for their meat quality and mothering ability;
Duroc for meat quality and ruggedness;
Berkshire for meat quality and our own meat business.
I have eliminated the Yorkshire, Landrace and Hampshire from my breeding for meat quality concerns.
I also have a small herd of purebred pedigreed Berkshires that that I am raising to sell to my butcher for his business, www.berkshiremeats.com
Other than my Purebred Berks, I have not brought any new animals onto my farm for 6 years; for bio-security concerns. I bring my new lines in through artificial insemination. My herd stays healthier for that.
There are pictures of our farm on our web: www.prairiepridefarm.com
Roger
I started raising heirlooms almost by accident. I needed a rugged hog to withstand our winters while being housed outside. One of my barns is 105 years old. I remodeled it in 1977 and it looks like it can go another 105.
I tried raising some of the hybreds farmers and packers find desirable for ultra lean. They were too frail, stressy and hard to work with.
The breeds I use are:
Chester White on the maternal side for their meat quality and mothering ability;
Duroc for meat quality and ruggedness;
Berkshire for meat quality and our own meat business.
I have eliminated the Yorkshire, Landrace and Hampshire from my breeding for meat quality concerns.
I also have a small herd of purebred pedigreed Berkshires that that I am raising to sell to my butcher for his business, www.berkshiremeats.com
Other than my Purebred Berks, I have not brought any new animals onto my farm for 6 years; for bio-security concerns. I bring my new lines in through artificial insemination. My herd stays healthier for that.
There are pictures of our farm on our web: www.prairiepridefarm.com
Roger
Getting away from pork for a second, what is the reason for round bales of hay? I grew up on a dairy farm and always made square bales.
Hi.
The advantage is simply that one man can do it all. �At almost any cost, a small farmer these days can't find enough other people to help him get in hay any other way, especially on the right day to harvest this time-sensitive crop.
�Traditional "square" bales are relatively easy to handle and they stack up neatly in a barn, but getting them to the barn is costly and labor-intensive. �It takes a whole crew to get in a field of square hay bales, and square-baling machines are famously troublesome.
� �A field full of round bales, on the other hand, can made in part of an afternoon by one person on a tractor, pulling a round-baling machine. � Round balers are fast and they are more reliable than square-balers. �Round bales vary in size, but they always are much larger than individual square bales, and there is a related economy in that respect.
there can be lots of wastage with round bales, but now that farmers encase them in plastic type coverings that is less of a problem.
I sometimes use round bales with our reindeer. You roll it out there and they eat what they want and use the rest to bed down on.
That is my take.
Kate
The advantage is simply that one man can do it all. �At almost any cost, a small farmer these days can't find enough other people to help him get in hay any other way, especially on the right day to harvest this time-sensitive crop.
�Traditional "square" bales are relatively easy to handle and they stack up neatly in a barn, but getting them to the barn is costly and labor-intensive. �It takes a whole crew to get in a field of square hay bales, and square-baling machines are famously troublesome.
� �A field full of round bales, on the other hand, can made in part of an afternoon by one person on a tractor, pulling a round-baling machine. � Round balers are fast and they are more reliable than square-balers. �Round bales vary in size, but they always are much larger than individual square bales, and there is a related economy in that respect.
there can be lots of wastage with round bales, but now that farmers encase them in plastic type coverings that is less of a problem.
I sometimes use round bales with our reindeer. You roll it out there and they eat what they want and use the rest to bed down on.
That is my take.
Kate
I agree with Kate.
Actually the picture is of baled corn stalks straw [bedding], not hay [eating].
We use them in the quanset looking buildings at the top of the farm photo for the "deep bedded swedish style" hoop buildings.
They seem crowded in there but they are so snoopy, they all came over to pester us.
Roger
Actually the picture is of baled corn stalks straw [bedding], not hay [eating].
We use them in the quanset looking buildings at the top of the farm photo for the "deep bedded swedish style" hoop buildings.
They seem crowded in there but they are so snoopy, they all came over to pester us.
Roger
Hi Roger,
With reindeer, they pick through the hay and eat the flowers and fine bits and leave the stems, all they want is the tender choice parts, so the leftovers become bedding! We only go second or third cut hay. They are Divas! My husband would love to raise some hogs, but reindeer have issues with hog diseases. So, I have soothed him with chickens, broilers to be exact. We do hoop houses, which we move daily, which in turn fertilizes. I prefer pork over chicken, but the chicken will be good in the smoker too!
What a great farm you have!
Kate
With reindeer, they pick through the hay and eat the flowers and fine bits and leave the stems, all they want is the tender choice parts, so the leftovers become bedding! We only go second or third cut hay. They are Divas! My husband would love to raise some hogs, but reindeer have issues with hog diseases. So, I have soothed him with chickens, broilers to be exact. We do hoop houses, which we move daily, which in turn fertilizes. I prefer pork over chicken, but the chicken will be good in the smoker too!
What a great farm you have!
Kate
Roger,
Thank you. The Berkshires are very attractive.
I was so surprised that you also raise cattle. My uncle had a dairy farm in Georgia that his son is running now. They raise as I remember, Holsteins and Black Angus. It's a big production. They have a two story milking parlor with music piped in to keep the cows happy. They use artificial insemination also. The females have something placed on their backs so they can tell when they are ready to mate. I think my uncle said the other females will try to mount them then. The male calves are sold for beef and the females are mostly kept as milkers. They have nice big pens for the male calves with big bottles for them to nurse from. I felt like they were treated very gently for animals about to be sold for meat.
I heard Prince Charles raised heirloom pigs. Well, maybe his employees do. But, thank you so much for the information.
Peggy
P.S. Kate, I think you must have a fine bunch of reindeer. Could you send a picture?
Thank you. The Berkshires are very attractive.
I was so surprised that you also raise cattle. My uncle had a dairy farm in Georgia that his son is running now. They raise as I remember, Holsteins and Black Angus. It's a big production. They have a two story milking parlor with music piped in to keep the cows happy. They use artificial insemination also. The females have something placed on their backs so they can tell when they are ready to mate. I think my uncle said the other females will try to mount them then. The male calves are sold for beef and the females are mostly kept as milkers. They have nice big pens for the male calves with big bottles for them to nurse from. I felt like they were treated very gently for animals about to be sold for meat.
I heard Prince Charles raised heirloom pigs. Well, maybe his employees do. But, thank you so much for the information.
Peggy
P.S. Kate, I think you must have a fine bunch of reindeer. Could you send a picture?
Roger,
Thank you. The Berkshires are very attractive.
I was so surprised that you also raise cattle. My uncle had a dairy farm in Georgia that his son is running now. They raise as I remember, Holsteins and Black Angus. It's a big production. They have a two story milking parlor with music piped in to keep the cows happy. They use artificial insemination also. The females have something placed on their backs so they can tell when they are ready to mate. I think my uncle said the other females will try to mount them then. The male calves are sold for beef and the females are mostly kept as milkers. They have nice big pens for the male calves with big bottles for them to nurse from. I felt like they were treated very gently for animals about to be sold for meat.
I heard Prince Charles raised heirloom pigs. Well, maybe his employees do. But, thank you so much for the information.
Peggy
P.S. Kate, I think you must have a fine bunch of reindeer. Could you send a picture?
Thank you. The Berkshires are very attractive.
I was so surprised that you also raise cattle. My uncle had a dairy farm in Georgia that his son is running now. They raise as I remember, Holsteins and Black Angus. It's a big production. They have a two story milking parlor with music piped in to keep the cows happy. They use artificial insemination also. The females have something placed on their backs so they can tell when they are ready to mate. I think my uncle said the other females will try to mount them then. The male calves are sold for beef and the females are mostly kept as milkers. They have nice big pens for the male calves with big bottles for them to nurse from. I felt like they were treated very gently for animals about to be sold for meat.
I heard Prince Charles raised heirloom pigs. Well, maybe his employees do. But, thank you so much for the information.
Peggy
P.S. Kate, I think you must have a fine bunch of reindeer. Could you send a picture?
Hi Peggy.
Thank you! As reindeer go, they are a mutinous crew! But, I am fond of them. They are delightful to watch and quite bright at times. My best reindeer is adept at turning on the lights in the reindeer house when he feels it is time to be fed. I would be happy to send a picture, but I am not sure where I should send it? Lest I am too far off the smoker forum path, let me add that I have plans to milk my reindeer and create some fine Reindeer Cheese, which I am told will have a vanilla-ish, nutty flavor. Perhaps I can enhance it even further with a bit of smoking? (back on track now) Reindeer are classified as domestic stock, but I can tell you that to milk one is not the easiest task. Unlike a cow, the reindeer cows have small teats and a rack of antlers is usual for mamas having just given birth for protection purposes. So, this is a delicate process, but I am going to milk one and get my cheese! So, when I actually get this done and make the cheese, then smoke it, I will be posting pictures of the results, that is if I survive the ordeal in one piece!
Tell me where I should send a photo, here, to you ...? Will do.
Take care,
Kate
Thank you! As reindeer go, they are a mutinous crew! But, I am fond of them. They are delightful to watch and quite bright at times. My best reindeer is adept at turning on the lights in the reindeer house when he feels it is time to be fed. I would be happy to send a picture, but I am not sure where I should send it? Lest I am too far off the smoker forum path, let me add that I have plans to milk my reindeer and create some fine Reindeer Cheese, which I am told will have a vanilla-ish, nutty flavor. Perhaps I can enhance it even further with a bit of smoking? (back on track now) Reindeer are classified as domestic stock, but I can tell you that to milk one is not the easiest task. Unlike a cow, the reindeer cows have small teats and a rack of antlers is usual for mamas having just given birth for protection purposes. So, this is a delicate process, but I am going to milk one and get my cheese! So, when I actually get this done and make the cheese, then smoke it, I will be posting pictures of the results, that is if I survive the ordeal in one piece!
Tell me where I should send a photo, here, to you ...? Will do.
Take care,
Kate
Welp! I find this WHOLE converation quite intriguing! I am/was a small farm operator--Game chickens. (Get into the restaurant business and one will understand the "was") I have been raising them for 15 years-- Just can't keep 'em up like I used to.I love them as much as ANYTHING I have ever done! Enough about that.
Kate,
You got any of them good ole' Yellar skin chickens on the yard? If so send me a couple-please!
Can't buy them in ANY store! One can only acquire those GOOD chickens from Granny's house. Now that is chicken!
The ruin of the pork was "the other White meat" adds.--Bastards!
I am fortunate enough to live in an area that is FULL of Hogs and Farmers. I used to only use Smithfield Butts, but since I have gotten into the food business I have had the opportunity to check out many brands of meats. I have even had the privilege of speaking with the man that is responsible for getting Lundy's back on track. They use to supply the entire(almost)Eastern part of NC with meat for 40 years. In 10-15 years they almost went out of business because of the Lean thing--were bought out by Premium Farms. He went to them and told them that they had to make a change and the meat quality is on the rise. Still don't touch Carolina Pride or Smithfield, but they are working on it.
I have even had the Hormel ravers hollering at me. It is decent, not as good as the 2 afore-mentioned, however.
In the food business shrinkage is a BIG deal. But, so is flavor. So, one has to watch the meats intent. Retail cuts are my favorite. Food service meats tend to suck. As a matter of fact, Farmland meats....These are the MOST tasteless pork butts I have ever used/tasted. The shrinkage is minimal-20-30% tops-that is good for makin' money, not for good eatin'. Sauce lovers like this brand.
Not sure where I was headed with all this. Just seemed like a conversation I would like to input on. Well, there is my 2 browns worth!
-Note- Many of these comments only pertain to those of us South of that Great MD line!
Zeb
Kate,
You got any of them good ole' Yellar skin chickens on the yard? If so send me a couple-please!
Can't buy them in ANY store! One can only acquire those GOOD chickens from Granny's house. Now that is chicken!The ruin of the pork was "the other White meat" adds.--Bastards!
I am fortunate enough to live in an area that is FULL of Hogs and Farmers. I used to only use Smithfield Butts, but since I have gotten into the food business I have had the opportunity to check out many brands of meats. I have even had the privilege of speaking with the man that is responsible for getting Lundy's back on track. They use to supply the entire(almost)Eastern part of NC with meat for 40 years. In 10-15 years they almost went out of business because of the Lean thing--were bought out by Premium Farms. He went to them and told them that they had to make a change and the meat quality is on the rise. Still don't touch Carolina Pride or Smithfield, but they are working on it.
I have even had the Hormel ravers hollering at me. It is decent, not as good as the 2 afore-mentioned, however.
In the food business shrinkage is a BIG deal. But, so is flavor. So, one has to watch the meats intent. Retail cuts are my favorite. Food service meats tend to suck. As a matter of fact, Farmland meats....These are the MOST tasteless pork butts I have ever used/tasted. The shrinkage is minimal-20-30% tops-that is good for makin' money, not for good eatin'. Sauce lovers like this brand.
Not sure where I was headed with all this. Just seemed like a conversation I would like to input on. Well, there is my 2 browns worth!
-Note- Many of these comments only pertain to those of us South of that Great MD line!
Zeb
Zeb,
We have some nice average ordinary laying hens right now. They do okay in the cold we have up here. We stop raising broilers in September and start again when the weather permits, meaning after may. I was after Pastured Peepers, but the guy who bred them, up and went off to CHINA!!! They were supposed to be better suited to raising on pasture. We raised turkeys in hoop house the previous year and I cannot abide the mere thought of another turkey, except maybe a wild one that wanders in! We smoked pounds and pounds and pounds of turkey! I can sell poultry on the farm, but even if I wanted to go to a farmers market, I would need a processor and all the inspections. None near us, so ... I am not planning to raise ANY poultry this summer. My hens are getting long in the tooth now, so the stew pot might be in order! I only have about thirty of them now. I have some cool naked necks! If you are ever in St. Thomas, try Lake's Fried Chicken, West Indians know how to cook yardbirds and Lake's is the best! For Smoked Marlin you can find a guy named Austin Gumbs out on his houseboat, there are advantages to living way south! Barbacoa!
Kate
We have some nice average ordinary laying hens right now. They do okay in the cold we have up here. We stop raising broilers in September and start again when the weather permits, meaning after may. I was after Pastured Peepers, but the guy who bred them, up and went off to CHINA!!! They were supposed to be better suited to raising on pasture. We raised turkeys in hoop house the previous year and I cannot abide the mere thought of another turkey, except maybe a wild one that wanders in! We smoked pounds and pounds and pounds of turkey! I can sell poultry on the farm, but even if I wanted to go to a farmers market, I would need a processor and all the inspections. None near us, so ... I am not planning to raise ANY poultry this summer. My hens are getting long in the tooth now, so the stew pot might be in order! I only have about thirty of them now. I have some cool naked necks! If you are ever in St. Thomas, try Lake's Fried Chicken, West Indians know how to cook yardbirds and Lake's is the best! For Smoked Marlin you can find a guy named Austin Gumbs out on his houseboat, there are advantages to living way south! Barbacoa!
Kate