today's brisket flat -- advice needed!

You'll get there, it just takes a little practice and very good notes to become a brisket cook. It seems the hardest part is no two briskets will ever cook the same, that is, never come tender at the same temp...so lets forget cooking to temp,instead cook until it is tender.That is something all brisket cooks have to learn.

That may help with the dense part and some cooks like to let the brisket finish tendering wrapped in a towel for some period of time in a cooler, I tend to be in this group.

As far as your smoke flavor, that can be addressed a couple different ways. Some cooks will start at a lower temp for a few hours,others will start with colder meat, and some will just use a little more wood. When cooking on my smokette, I like 5-6ozs of wood and I will be in the group that likes to start out a little lower in temp for a few hours.

You can learn on those flats, it just makes you a better cook,oh well!

Thanks for the advice Cal. I have to do a few of these for a party in a week, so this was a trial run. I did put the meat in cold, and will use more wood the next time, and start at a lower temp. (I used 2.5oz oak and 1oz mesquite this time.) Question about letting it rest in a cooler -- do you cook it to a certain temp -- say 190 -- and then wrap and hold it? The other thing is, I've done a search on flats in this forum and see that a number of people advise foiling flats after 160 - 165. I'd rather not foil, since I like the bark, but what do you think of that method?

wrapping the brisket in a moving blanket for 3 to 4 hours then rest a while before cutting might help

Like the good cooks above suggested.You don't mention what cooker you used,so could be a lot different suggestions.

Also,what grade meat and brand.Costco is often suspect,and you reap what you begin with.They are usually selling london broil/pot roast.

Often, takes a very high grade brisket to come tender at 190*.

Depending on your cooker,some folks might put meat back on cooker for half hr,or so,to tighten up/dry bark.

A little more info might help our suggestions.

quote:

Originally posted by jy2nd:
Well I moved, and it seems that here in W. Michigan they don't sell packer briskets. The best I could do was a 7# flat from Costco. The last time I made a flat I took it to 160, then braised the rest of the way in red chile sauce. Very good, but not BBQ. So I decided to try the flat. Did it at 225, with 3.5oz wood, til 190. Took it out, let it rest in foil for about 1 hour, then sliced. It had great bark, was juicy, and pretty tender, but the meat was -- for lack of a better word -- dense, and I didn't think it had enough smoke flavor. The sliced meat is wrapped and chilling, and will be reheated with a little BBQ sauce, which hopefully will help flavor. Since I may be doomed to only flats, any advice on what I should have done?

Where is western Michigan, I live just west of Detroit and there's quite a few placed to pick up packers, in fact I've never smoked a flat.

quote:

Where in western Michigan, I live just west of Detroit and there's quite a few placed to pick up packers, in fact I've never smoked a flat.

I was going to ask the same thing... since I grew up in Kalamazoo... might know of a place to buy briskets. However, now I live NE of Traverse City and there are even less places to buy briskets up here. But - - - you need to check out all the groceries... even those that don't look like they have a chance.

There is an IGA up here that is at least 10 miles from nowhere... not really a town around that is close, but yet they usually have cryo butts and full packers. And last fall I even bought a PRIME flat from them for about $3.49/lb. (didn't taste much better than choice) So you should do some digging and ask around. If a store doesn't have packers, they might be able to tell you who does.

Hey jy2nd!,

I see in your profile that you cook with the smokette. They do have a very moist environment and if your not wanting to add an extra flavor to the brisket, why foil at 160-65*?...could be as Tom stated, a product/brisket that has very little marbling. Then a little extra broth could help at 170* or so, that way you will have time to form some more bark.

Some cooks might try raising the temp during the cook a little to help finish the brisket off and leave the foil for resting.

NO on cooking to temp for me, but some fine cooks do it. Smokin' taught me to cook until you can stick a probe into the flat with no or very little resistance.Yep, just like going into butter...hey if you overcook it, you might get some of the best pulled brisket you've ever ate,oh well.

You just have to cook brisket,to learn brisket...there is no short cuts for experience.

Good luck and have FUN.

Could you please elaborate on "dense"?

quote:

Originally posted by MaxQue:
Could you please elaborate on "dense"?

I'm not even gonna swing at that one .. LOL

Stores around me don't sell packers either. If you don't have a friend who owns a restaurant, get one. Problem solved. They're easy to come by from a restaurant food purveyor - and cheap.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach:

quote:

Originally posted by MaxQue:
Could you please elaborate on "dense"?

I'm not even gonna swing at that one .. LOL

Well you...being the brisket king of Texas, can afford a designated hitter

No seriously...jy said the meat was juicy and pretty tender. I'm thinking it may have needed a tad more cooking time.

A long way from TX brisket king but thanks

I agree with ya.... a bit more time

Yep,the Smokette can pour all the smoke you can stand into a hunk of meat,but very large hunks will rarely have much internal smoke.

Lower grade,unmarbled brisket will get cooked,but may not "come tender" at even higher temps.Thus, some folks are forced to finish cooking in foil and pot roasting the meat to get very tender.

Remember,many retail outlets are buying the "customers' preferred" product which is very lean inside and outside,can be marinated to grill,or pot roasted with very little waste.

Select,or ungraded,can meet these criteria well.

As cal mentioned,there are a very few cooks out there that cook to temp and wind up with good results.

Those I know,are very experienced and have a "complete system" down pat.

For each cook,they obtain the same meat[they may cook three and pick the one that works best] and trim it the same way,have the cooker running exactly the same,the climate is the same,they time the cook for the same time period,and the meat is close to the same temp when they pull it off.

Then,they have the experience to adjust the holding time and method to get the meat to where they want it to be for taking to the box.

It doesn't always work,but they know how to work their "complete technique".

Good starting product always helps,and some experience with your cooker and the product never hurts.

Thanks to all for the advice. I'm sure the problem was a combination of the meat quality and me. I've done brisket before -- even flats -- with success, but not in a cookshack, and wasn't satisfied this time. Mostly I had a problem with the lack of smoke flavor and the texture of the meat. Sorry about the word "dense" -- what I meant was that the meat wasn't tough, but not as succulent as previous brisket tries. It was tender when I took it out -- I was able to stick a skewer in easily in several places, and it had good bark. The brisket was labeled as choice, and had some fat on top. Costco was the only place that even had brisket that wasn't totally trimmed, and that was of any size. I've been told of a butcher on the other end of town (I'm in Grand Rapids, MI) who might be willing to order a packer for me. In the meantime, if Costco flats are all I can get, I'll have to figure out a way to cook them. I have to cook two more, so this weekend, following Cal's & Tom's advice, I'm going to start the next one at 200 with more wood, then bump it up later, and try foiling one at 170. Would you suggest also FTC for a couple of hours? I'll let you know how it goes

Have to say that I just reheated some of first brisket, tossed with a little rub and thinned Q sauce, and it was quite tasty. I don't think anyone will be disappointed, but I want to be happy with the product.

If you study the pyramid of meat grading,since Jimmy Carter moved select up to choice,you may find that choice could be the bottom 80%.Thus,if your choice packer is at the poor end,it may not be your fault.Your next ones may be better without a bunch of tinkering.

Your CS was designed by Donna's family over a half century ago to be the top brisket cooker around and is still one of the best.

Oak is very mild and is usually used to round out the flavors of your other woods.Mesquite burns hot,so is good to grill with,but can be bitter for very long cooks.

If you are convinced of the need to use foil,because of poor meat,I might boost the oak to at least 4 oz of chunks,and the mesquite to at least a couple oz.
You might run the CS around 180* for an hr and then kick it up to 240*-250* until it hits 160*+ internal-or until the bark suits you.

Lay a flat on foil with about 1/4 cup beef stock,red sauce,etc,wrap tight with no air space and cook to at least 192*-193* before checking.I assume you have checked your therm for accurate and the actual temp at the cook surface.

If a probe,or meat fork won't pass thru like butter,cook another 5* and check again.If still not ready cook another 2*-3* and check.I've seen them take 210*.

When you pull it,letting rest 3-4 hrs can't hurt.

Smokin' would usually say only make one change at a time and take great notes.Good plan.
We are giving you too many variables,where only one might be the answer.

Worst case it will be the best they ever had.

Loosen foil and let come close to room temp and slice across the grain.

I see there are two Wallyworlds (Walmart)by you. I bet they have packers!!!

I tend to agree with Tom, Max,and Coach....could be you just didn't cook your first flat long enough to come tender....and by changing this one thing, you might have a perfect brisket on your next try.

The GOOD part of it, is you just learned what takes some cooks a few years of cooking to learn...and other cooks never learn.

Especially those that just spend months waiting for the secrets,instead of cooking something.

The longer I do this silly hobby...

The more I appreciate folks like Max, Tom and Russ and MANY others in what they say.

Yes..... I once grilled a steak and somebody said it was fantastic and BOOM!!!!
I was an instant expert!

Any others here like that??? thought so

I dont care how many folks tell me how good my Q is..
There's somebody out there that can kick my butt with a bic lighter!

I lurk these forums because I always learn something new every week I log on.

All that to say........

If ya got a tip....... let us know


Coach

jy, one more tip to consider...

Flats tend to finish a bit dryer than packers. Consider injecting (flats or packers) prior to smoking. Fellow forum member & Cookshack cooking instructor Dave Buska produces a great injection powder (www.Butcherbbq.com) Mix it with water (or experiment with other flavoring liquids) Using a syringe, shoot about 1-2 tbsp into the center of the flat using a grid pattern of 1.5" Shoot in from the meat (bottom)side. Wrapping the brisket in plastic prior to injecting will prevent "explosions" Mix the injection at least an hour before using and inject at least 4-6 hrs before smoking. Finally, cook the flat fat side down. This helps prevent the heat source drawing out the liquid during the smoke/cook.

Hope that helps.

Max gives a good tip,as always,but since you are at the edge of the envelope to cook,here is a fallback that forum member,longtime CS cook,longtime FEC comp cook,original instructor at the Cookshack classes,and prominent author/TV personality has graciously shared in his book Big-Time Barbecue.

Ray is at Memphis in May,treading water as we speak.

drbbq beef injection


drbbq's Big Cow Beef Injection

2 cups beef broth-many use low salt
1/4 C. Lee and Perrin's worcestershire Sauce
1 tsp onion powder
1 tsp garlic powder
1/2 tsp cayenne pepper

Mix well and refrig before injecting.

This isn't meant to be a discussion of phosphates,etc in the couple of current commercial favorites,but something cooks can make on the spot.