I ran across this article and well I just had to share and get some thoughts from the experienced cooks. Amazing ribs theory on the stall
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That sure takes the fun out of the rendering fat and collagen theory. Science still tastes great when it's done.
i remember hearing about this theory on stall on science friday espoused by the exMicrosoft CTO
http://www.npr.org/2011/07/01/...in-modernist-cuisine
seems to predate greg blonder by a bit!!
fwiw, i'm all for the longer cook time. meets my scheduling needs
btw, the amazing ribs site has some interesting opinions on electric (and cookshack) smokers
http://www.npr.org/2011/07/01/...in-modernist-cuisine
seems to predate greg blonder by a bit!!
fwiw, i'm all for the longer cook time. meets my scheduling needs
btw, the amazing ribs site has some interesting opinions on electric (and cookshack) smokers
Very interesting Cal.
Thanks Cal, great read.
Not sure what an experienced cook is,but I think maybe I've had the good fortune to hang around with a few.
It does appear that this fellow googled "bbq"-however ya spell it- and then linked every possible web site to his sales site.
Sort of a general newsletter of everything on the web.
Over the years ,around "experienced" cooks on the circuits,they all seems to feel like "bbq" was an art-not a science.
They talk about elderly African American gentlemen that could use gear they thought was sorta junk.
Nobody had heard of "polders" yet.
Old cooks would laugh and comment they never had met a hawg that could read a thermometer,or cared what the cook temp was at a particular time.
Strangely,these old fellas,barely seemed to be able to keep their cooker temps up and had to allow their old junk cookers a few extra hours to get the job done.
They seemed more interested in how a mouthful felt,ate,and tasted then worrying about what the cooker was doing at a particular time and how fast it finished.
I was fortunate to be a helper to one old fella that seemed to relax a lot,tell stories,and drink a lot of Jack and Cokes thru the night.
Since I was the "gopher" for him,he sent me over to check the cooker after a few hrs for the first time.
I came running back in a panic that the cooker was only at 170º and what should we do quick!
He says,"Son was it cookin'?"
Yessir.
He says" then make me a Jack and Coke".
Amazing what a dominant cook he turned out to be.
Shame those guys never have figured out the "science" they are supposed to be paying attention to.
There are folks selling pressure cookers that can infuse smoke and make a tender roast-FAST.
That said, there is one cook out there that cooks a lot,sometimes twice a week for judges.
He does do some winning, fast cooking, on two products.
Now,cal is judging a lot,and he might be able to offer some opinions about some judges' expertise.
Just my $0.02
It does appear that this fellow googled "bbq"-however ya spell it- and then linked every possible web site to his sales site.
Sort of a general newsletter of everything on the web.
Over the years ,around "experienced" cooks on the circuits,they all seems to feel like "bbq" was an art-not a science.
They talk about elderly African American gentlemen that could use gear they thought was sorta junk.
Nobody had heard of "polders" yet.
Old cooks would laugh and comment they never had met a hawg that could read a thermometer,or cared what the cook temp was at a particular time.
Strangely,these old fellas,barely seemed to be able to keep their cooker temps up and had to allow their old junk cookers a few extra hours to get the job done.
They seemed more interested in how a mouthful felt,ate,and tasted then worrying about what the cooker was doing at a particular time and how fast it finished.
I was fortunate to be a helper to one old fella that seemed to relax a lot,tell stories,and drink a lot of Jack and Cokes thru the night.
Since I was the "gopher" for him,he sent me over to check the cooker after a few hrs for the first time.
I came running back in a panic that the cooker was only at 170º and what should we do quick!
He says,"Son was it cookin'?"
Yessir.
He says" then make me a Jack and Coke".
Amazing what a dominant cook he turned out to be.
Shame those guys never have figured out the "science" they are supposed to be paying attention to.
There are folks selling pressure cookers that can infuse smoke and make a tender roast-FAST.
That said, there is one cook out there that cooks a lot,sometimes twice a week for judges.
He does do some winning, fast cooking, on two products.
Now,cal is judging a lot,and he might be able to offer some opinions about some judges' expertise.
Just my $0.02
Inteeresting read until he recommended FOIL. It's a crutch. Pure and simple.
Sure it works, he explains the reason why, but he didn't answer this for me...
... what's the rush?
I don't care if there is a stall, it works, I know it happens and it all comes out fine.
Sometimes, me included, we spend too much time on the science (like Brining 101) and we forget the methods and the end results.
I'll wait until I have time to really re-read it to see if there are any other nuggets.
I applaud his trying to uncover myths.
Next one I want explored is the "meat quit taking on smoke after 140".
Sure it works, he explains the reason why, but he didn't answer this for me...
... what's the rush?
I don't care if there is a stall, it works, I know it happens and it all comes out fine.
Sometimes, me included, we spend too much time on the science (like Brining 101) and we forget the methods and the end results.
I'll wait until I have time to really re-read it to see if there are any other nuggets.
I applaud his trying to uncover myths.
Next one I want explored is the "meat quit taking on smoke after 140".
I feel like a kid who just learned there is no Santa! I always liked the saying that the plateau was when the "magic" happens. Guess it still is when the magic happens it's just that we know how the trick works now...
But the stall is predictable and now we know why large pieces of meat finish quickly.
But the stall is predictable and now we know why large pieces of meat finish quickly.
quote:Originally posted by lcubed:
i remember hearing about this theory on stall on science friday espoused by the exMicrosoft CTO
http://www.npr.org/2011/07/01/...in-modernist-cuisine
seems to predate greg blonder by a bit!!
Pretty funny and pretty informative article. Now where can I get liquid nitrogen so I can cook some burgers this weekend...... Will also need to find a REALLY big deep fryer to finish off the pork butt.
It's like ice melts to maintain water at 32*. Moisture evaporates (another cooling process) to maintain meat temp. Makes some sense.
The "stall" is there, and that's the important thing to know. Still sounds better that we're breaking down collagen and fat.
THERE'S NO SANTA????? Thanks a lot SmokinMAINEiac.
The "stall" is there, and that's the important thing to know. Still sounds better that we're breaking down collagen and fat.
THERE'S NO SANTA????? Thanks a lot SmokinMAINEiac.
quote:THERE'S NO SANTA????? Thanks a lot SmokinMAINEiac.
Oops...Yes Virginia, there is a Santa !
Yeah, it was a far reach when he started comparing evaporation of a sponge to the rendering of fat, but hey, if it works for a fella, well "it's done when it's done".
I do sorta understand his thought about not wanting your brisket to dry out after it has broken down the collagen.
I was sure everyone would shake their head about the scientific art of smoking, I just don't quite think the author gave much thought to the reaction of a brisket that just don't give a dang about wanting to come tender, oh well!
Yes Tom, there are a few folks that would have an opinion on what kind of mouth feel a person would want in their finished product.
I do sorta understand his thought about not wanting your brisket to dry out after it has broken down the collagen.
I was sure everyone would shake their head about the scientific art of smoking, I just don't quite think the author gave much thought to the reaction of a brisket that just don't give a dang about wanting to come tender, oh well!
Yes Tom, there are a few folks that would have an opinion on what kind of mouth feel a person would want in their finished product.
Good read! Refining my Green Egg skills before acquiring my CS, I had been wrapping briskets and butts in parchment lined foil due to the impact it has on speeding up the cook & retaining moisture. I always wrapped with parchment touching the meat, since salt & acid from rubs and vinegar is corrosive to aluminum. Having seen a drier product come off my CS, henceforth I'll be wrapping again! WalMart makes a nice product - one side parchment - the other, Aluminum foil.
Always interesting to see a scientist chart "the brisket" and to have that historical record of what the" brisket " did.Now,watching him take his very good notes,like Smokin' constantly preaches, and the 18 lb packer he just picked up at Wallyworld and preparing his guests for a cut with a fork dinner.
The nice thing about that packer is it could have come from a couple year old black and white face cross steer that has been standing around in its own acre pen,eating/finishing the last six months on 13 % protein/sorghum to 1000 lbs and hung at the small custom slaughterhouse for 2-3 weeks.
Then again it could have come from a 15 yr old Jersey bull wandering the Wisconson Dells,or an 18 yr old Longhorn bull caught running wild north of the Rio Grande .
Run hard to the pens,killed and cut up that day,and sent to the contract buyers to deliver to "wally".
I don't doubt they could wire it up,make their projections and show what it DID until they were through with it.
But,like cal says,watch them take a bite at dinner and chart that.
I also wonder what happens to that 15 lb packer that charts thru the plateau wrapped in a liquid filled foil pack in a 350º cooker to its "perfect temp" in the flat of 195º and then set to rest in a warm cooler.
Just a couple thoughts
The nice thing about that packer is it could have come from a couple year old black and white face cross steer that has been standing around in its own acre pen,eating/finishing the last six months on 13 % protein/sorghum to 1000 lbs and hung at the small custom slaughterhouse for 2-3 weeks.
Then again it could have come from a 15 yr old Jersey bull wandering the Wisconson Dells,or an 18 yr old Longhorn bull caught running wild north of the Rio Grande .
Run hard to the pens,killed and cut up that day,and sent to the contract buyers to deliver to "wally".
I don't doubt they could wire it up,make their projections and show what it DID until they were through with it.
But,like cal says,watch them take a bite at dinner and chart that.
I also wonder what happens to that 15 lb packer that charts thru the plateau wrapped in a liquid filled foil pack in a 350º cooker to its "perfect temp" in the flat of 195º and then set to rest in a warm cooler.
Just a couple thoughts
To confusing for me. I think I'll stick with Smokinokie and I won't get my smoker until next Friday.