3-2-1 method/ here I go!!!

Last week I ran a taste test using the 3-2-1 vs straight smoke/glaze. The ribs were 3 lb loin backs and they all finished up in 3.5 hrs. The 3-2-1's scored lower (3 happy judges/eaters) than the other 2 racks.

Just so you all know, the 3-2-1 method was meant for spare ribs, not loin or baby backs. To do loin or baby backs, you need to times accordingly.

Cal, you should be just fine on the full spares.

Ribdog nows of where he speaks.

I've been there as he went to the stage for state championship for ribs-in the deep South,where they all cook them.

I'm not a fan of this concept. NOWHERE in the posts when people recommend it, do they talk about the rib size.

4.5 lb may or may not be done in 6 hours.

I guess it's the whole "F" thing that I hate, like wrapping it in a set time will magically get you something.

Sorry, just ranting, not helping... LOL

At the end of the 6 hours, you'll need to test them and see if they're done. I wouldn't be surprised if they needed more, but 4.5 lb is small enough 6 might actually be done on time.

Good to see ya back,didn't realize you had "survived" the circus.

LOL... my friends this was a real learning experience. It reminded me of my first bike ride, after I got started on that big hill it was easy, tell I realized I didn't know anything about the braking system.

I must say they were the most tender ribs I have ever ate and greasy. Next time it will be trimmed spare ribs with extra care on the trimming of fat.

250* was a little high, next time I will cook at 225*

I will try to add more flavor to the ribs while in foil, maybe some peppers and brown sugar? Will honey break down in the foil and not flavor?

I'm thinking that this 3-2-1 method would have worked well on the lean spares that I got on sale a couple weeks ago.

Yes, sometimes a person has to remind himself why, KISS can produce fine eating without much effort, but hey a person has to have a little FUN.

This from a great comp cook and large vendor,with huge experience.

Posted by Texas Rib Rangers on February 13, 2001 at 00:15:03:

In Reply to: Tinfoil!!! posted by WiseGuy on February 12, 2001 at 18:28:19:

I've been cooking in compentions for 24 years and started using foil back then and still do.Jumpin Jim passed along one of his secrets so here comes mine.

Smoke your ribs for 2-3 hours then wrap with foil. Before you put the ribs in the foil put some Brown Sugar & Honey on the foil put meat side down,then put some on the ribs then close the foil. Before closing completely put some Apple juice (about 2-3 oz.) and put back on cooker.After about an hour check Ribs if done pull them. About 30 min. before turn-in mix juice off rib with Texas Rib Rangers Spicy sauce and baste Ribs on grill to glaze them. Mix about 3 parts sauce to 1 part juice. Now you know the Rib Rangers story. Good Luck and Happy Q'n Bill

This was done for a specific application,and timed with MUCH experience of thousands of cases of ribs.

Many comp cooks use some variation of these ON THE CIRCUIT,but very rarely for any other reason-and not at home.

Many of you have watched the "Pitmasters" series and watched John Trigg,Smoking Triggers,teach unexperienced comp cooks how to use foil in a comp.

A side note would be that his wife,Trish,won't eat the comp ribs.

When a bunch of us cook comps together,drbbq-of CS FEC fame,cooks plain old backyard ribs,smoked sausage,and beans for Trish and the rest of us on Friday night.

These are how cooks at the picnic,vending,backyard gatherings do it with salt,pepper,no sauce,or foil.

These are pretty hard to beat.

Okay, I was reading this last week so I decided to try this foil stuff. I looked all over the place at the store and finally asked someone to point me in the right direction. It comes in rolls! Who would have thunk it?

Anyway, after trying this 3-2-1 method, I've got to come down on the negative side. Sure, the ribs were super tender. Too tender. And the smoke ring they had going into the foil was absent coming out. Meat color was not attractive being a uniform gray to the bone. Just not the way I want ribs to look.

Now, can I imagine doing it again and getting better results? Yes, but the process to me seems more likely to shrink your "window of perfection" rather than enlarging it. And I think after you pass through that window, the downside is much steeper because you'll quickly have waaaaayyy overcooked mushy, ribs. Just my opinion.

Personally, I think folks should aspire to cooking with the Dr. BBQ "method" that Tom described in the post above.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd G.:
... And the smoke ring they had going into the foil was absent coming out. Meat color was not attractive being a uniform gray to the bone. Just not the way I want ribs to look...

That's a new one for me, never heard of a SR disappearing. Must be those carolina pigs...

For me, foil is a method, it works for some and not for others. I find that a lot of new users go straight to foil as a method because they haven't had success and they're looking for a way to get it.

We've found over the years, that for people who've been doing it this way for a while, when they experiment smoking ribs without foil, to go with the new method of no foil.

To each his own. New users will get some use out of it, but it's a crutch. And like a crutch, use it as long as you need to but get rid of it as soon as you can.

When you think of a picnic cook/vendor making those fine ribs we all remember growing up with ,and cooking 60-80 slabs,how many of you would go to all that time and trouble to mess with 3-2-1?

Bill Milroy has cooked the Superbowl and NASCAR and you can believe he never did this.

A comp cook could be layering flavors and looking for a tiny,specific doneness point,to select six ribs from three slabs.

He may be trying to finish a product that looks perfect after 30 mins in a cold styrofoam box.

He may be cooking against 100 other cooks for 180 points possible score,and trying to add that 0.001 point to his total.

He has practiced countless times,on identical slabs,done almost perfectly the same way.
Most times, he slightly misjudges his heat/timing and is out of the money.

He doesn't even eat his own leftovers.

Guys like Todd learn their cookers and cook 95% as good ribs for large crowds.

Think about it.

Just my $0.02

<--- picturing Big Bob Gibson yelling to no one in particular, "OK, who ran off with my d**ned foil?"

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinOkie:

That's a new one for me, never heard of a SR disappearing. Must be those carolina pigs...

It may have still been there, but it was greatly overshadowed by the darker meat color than I'm used to seeing.

I like a little tougher rib than most folks too I guess. Falling off the bone is overdone for me, so maybe I'm pulling my ribs before they get a chance to go dry anyway.

But after reading this thread and seeing all those guys on the Pitmaster show doing their Parkay and honey thing, I had to try it once. Didn't do the cherry glaze thing though. That would just be taking it too far.

But it's all good. I was able to wall paper my house with the leftover foil, and I still had enough to make hats for when I go outside so the voices aren't as loud now.

And just to maybe clarify a bit, I'm not completely knocking the idea of foil. I think the foil does basically the same thing as coolering a butt or ribs, which I think of as being an important part of the cooking process.

Cooking for a crowd, I usually cook the ribs until they're about 75% done, then toss them in a cooler (with sauce usually) for a period of time, then finish/glaze on a grill. I think the absence of additional heat during the cooler time gives a larger window of perfection over the heated time in foil, especially since I'm going to grill to proper doneness anyway.

I can pull a rack that just went into the cooler 5 minutes ago and grill for maybe 8-10 minutes and serve perfect. Or I can pull a rack that went into the cooler 2 hours ago and grill for 2 minutes each side and serve when perfectly done. In the foil, I'm thinking that more often than not, they're going to come out of the foil already done/overdone and then any additional cooking during the glazing process is just going to get ugly, for me anyway.

Not that you can't do it great both ways, but I'd hate to have to be on the lookout for a narrow window for a perfect rib because I'd miss it more often than not due to other distractions, but a comp cook can do it.

Todd,

I have very limited knowledge of texture,color,etc...I know that you will cook more for one cater job, than I have for my short smoking experiences. But hey I'm not afraid of trying something new that catches my eye.

You're right about the wall paper, a person wouldn't have to have glue, just let the lard set up on the foil and stick away. REALLY!!! This had to be the biggest problem with the whole 3-2-1 method

Now on the color, it was different for sure. I wouldn't have called it bad. I cheated on the 1 hr part and opened at 30 min, to see what the ribs looked like. They had a rich deep red glaze apperience, not like the others that I have done. It seemed like the moisture in the glaze was gone and the glaze,to me,was rather thick and set real well.

I did this 3-2-1 method more to see if flavor could be added to the meat, sort-ta like layering. The mix of real cherry juice and apple juice didn't show up at all.

It is not something that I would do everytime and it would take a lot of experience to get timing down, but next time they go on sale.Maybe I'll try again, because you know I have 500 ft of that foil and spares will be 99 cents a pound. NO way I'm using my high price loinbacks for this.

Another tip, about when comp cooks are cooking this way,is they are ordering/buying,having custom cut the exact same slab of ribs every time.
Then,going thru the cases to select the best and closest to a clone of their comp/practice rib.

If the company cuts to a different standard west of the "big river,than east of the "big river" they custom order from that cut.

Not unusual for the tv pitmasters to go to all one specific name grocery stores in their area,go thru all the cases of ribs,finding just the occasional case from a certain company and then going thru that case to find the comp ribs.

You saw some of the pitmasters not find the perfect product and other cooks bringing/loaning/selling them enough for that cookoff.

A tremendous number of slabs and ribs go straight to the trash barrel.

It wouldn't be unusual for MIM teams,after all this perfect buying,to cook 18 slabs of the best,to find those few to turn in.
They tend to cook loinbacks and like them closer to fall off the bone than other sanctioning organizations.

Not rare to have a supplier of heritage pork,with specific cutting standards, air ship comp pork to guys they sponsor.

Not a lot of cooks do all this to feed the neighbors on Sat. afternoon.

Like Smokin'says,nothing wrong with trying something exotic,as long as we don't lose sight of how to correctly cook a product and are able to return to it.

Todd says,drbbq's technique to feed the comp cooks and judges, well, is hard to beat.

We could just as easily list another 100 fine comp cooks that do the same method when they entertain,or just eat at home.

Just a thought.

This is an interesting thread. I must revive it to comment and to ask a pertinent question.

First a comment. I've never heard of backyard ribs with just salt and pepper, and so I've never eaten them either. (They are now on my long and growing list of things to smoke when my AQ gets here.) I've mostly done the 3-2-1 method, suitably adjusted for loin backs or baby backs, and tried to make my ribs look like the ones on TV comps I've watched and the ones you get at good restaurants. That was the method I read about on another forum when I first started smoking about 4 or 5 years ago, so that's what I normally do.


And here's my question...

If the comp judges and the cooks, at home and on the Friday night before a comp, all truly prefer backyard style ribs, then why is all the judging based on the sauced and nuanced variety? Why not at least have a category for salt-n-pepper backyard ribs?


And a final comment: I've never been to a BBQ competition, even as a spectator, although I've watched them on TV. But I'm shocked to hear that anyone would throw slightly less than perfect competition ribs in the trash. That is, ribs that aren't judging quality, but are still better than what most people are capable of making at home. That's got me feeling a little sick, to tell the truth. Please, tell me it ain't so! Seems like you could at least give them away to spectators.

Skip, if you've never been then it's probably impossible to explain some of the instanity that goes on before, during, after a contest. Seriously, it's wacky to try to explain.

quote:

Originally posted by SkipQ:
If the comp judges and the cooks, at home and on the Friday night before a comp, all truly prefer backyard style ribs, then why is all the judging based on the sauced and nuanced variety? Why not at least have a category for salt-n-pepper backyard ribs?

Who says they like that taste? If they did, that's what people would be doing. I think Tom's comment about backyard ribs is doing more like you do at home. Lots of cooks do it just for judges on way and a different way at home. And NONE of us like to eat the same thing we're going to eat the next day for the contest. We get enough of that.

The #1 problem with contest judges is each one has their own idea and NO ONE knows that they all think. NO ONE. There is a lot of experience that goes into figuring out what flavors to turn in and sweet ribs ON AVERAGE score higher. But I know some judges who don't like that taste.

It's impossible to explain until you enter. So I'd just worry about pleasing your judges at home.

quote:

... But I'm shocked to hear that anyone would throw slightly less than perfect competition ribs in the trash. Please, tell me it ain't so! Seems like you could at least give them away to spectators.

I paid good money to enter contests and when I come home, they go to the kids, rarely the freezer. I HATE reheated ribs.

Many contests have Health Laws that prevent you from giving food away. And after the last turnin you're more worried about packing up than dealing with the little stuff.

If they collected for a food bank, which some do, then I give them some. But they don't because for the contest, it's a LOT of work to get that stuff and keep it food safe (lewer the temp and cool them)

Comp teams might buy the case of ribs,to find those that look/cook best for that one moment.

Depending on the type contest 18 slabs wouldn't be unheard of.

Even on the national circuits,we see a bunch of the same cooks and judges,and friends of friends.

We may be doing 1500 mile round trips,and packing up,clean and light is high on your list.

Health depts may let you give comp meat to friends,etc.Thus,judges,volunteers,police,fire dept,etc are all grateful.

We may have to "grab" a judge with a bite,or two,so we do tricks that you might not wish to eat a plateful.We might be in an area that is known for meat swimming in super,sweet sauce-or thin vinegar.Bad cooks,may hide bad meat,under lots of sauce.

The organization might disqualify a cook for pooling/puddling of sauce in the box.

In some sanctioning organizations,you are disqualified for painting your meats with sauce,because they can't see/taste the real meat.

Bill Milroy[Texas Rib Rangers] came up with the 3-2-1 method a quarter of a century ago,because he was vending/catering for thousands of people and he needed some control for his couple of turnin slabs.He figured,better to overcook,than undercook for the judges,and parboilng slabs could hold them wet/moist.If over parboiled,he could always tighen the slab up with additional naked cooking,to get it in the turnin box without falling apart.

There were countless cookers made from oilfield pipe,into long horizontal,offset cookers that could flow a lot of air and dry the product.If they didn't work well at flowing the air,they oversmoked the product.

Thus, you hear the slang 'Texas crutch" for Al foil,paper bags,pillow cases,burlap sacks,etc that could help out a poor cooker-or maybe cook.

Smokin' has made it his mission,that if the cooker can do a great job,as is,why not just learn how to cook on the cooker.

Yes,all of us have enthusiastically poured over forums of info that have grown like urban legends.

We agree,the $99 offset cooker special ,at the box stores,probably requires some of the old tricks.

Someone like you,is spending the money for a cooker where you don't have to do all that.

We often say,"if it ain't broke,don't start out tryin' to fix it"

Hope this helps a little.

For my next batch of ribs, I'm smoking them with a good Memphis type rub till just short of ready. Then I'm putting this Jack Daniel Glaze on them:

Jack Daniel's Rib Glaze

Use this barbecue sauce toward the end of cooking. You want the sauce to cook on to the surface of the ribs, but you don't want it to burn.

Ingredients:

* 1 cup Jack Daniel's Whiskey
* 1 cup ketchup
* 1/2 cup dark brown sugar
* 1/4 cup vinegar
* 1 tablespoon lemon juice
* 2 teaspoons Worcestershire sauce
* 3 cloves garlic, minced
* 1/2 teaspoon dry mustard
* salt and pepper to taste

Finish on the grill.

Last 4 batches have been smoked with a rub, sauce on the side. Will report on these.

Smokin', Tom, thank you for the perspectives. What you say does make sense. It's all about the competition, after all, not about feeding crowds.

I think I need to get to a competition or two so I can see for myself. As a spectator, that is. Meanwhile, I'm going to do like Tom suggests and let my AQ do what its designed to do, once it gets here.