about to give up on brisket

I've had the same issues in my AQ, sometimes it turns out, sometimes not. I've decided the variation is probably due primarily to the quality of brisket I get, which I can't always control, at least with packers.

However, I'm much less upset about this since I discovered plate short ribs!

Hi Tim, welcome to the forum.

First off, what grade of briskets have you been smoking? Next, what temp are you smoking them at?

In the 20 years I've been smoking briskets, I believe I've had the flat achieve tenderness, one time, at an internal temp of less than 190.

Points are like pork butts...almost impossible to screw up. The primary focus needs to be on the flat in terms of hitting the high notes. Whatever you heard on Triple D about taking the brisket out at 175 is just dead wrong.

My experience suggests that most Choice packer flats are done between 198 & 204. Rested properly, they won't be dry.

Bottom line...forget all that you've seen on TV. Describe your cooking method, meat used, etc. and we'll get you dialed in.

Agree with Max.

Welcome to the forum. FWIW you can't come in with your first post and say you're giving up. We'll take on that challenge and help you.

It's what we do.

quote:

Originally posted by MaxQ:
...

Bottom line...forget all that you've seen on TV. Describe your cooking method, meat used, etc. and we'll get you dialed in.

True 'dat

I've have to go look at that episode (I have them all).

Tell us what's going on and we'll help you out. We've helped more than a few people over the years with briskets... well, maybe 100's or more

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vissing:
... I remember watching Triple D at Smokin Guns BBQ and he talked about taking his brisket out at 175 and it was ready to eat. He would put the point back in for another couple of hours for burnt ends...

My report of that episode.

I didn't hear any reference to temp other than the smokers at 225, 9 to 11 hours. In the first part he smokes in his homemade smoker. For the points, he pulled them out of a small Ole Hickory CTO style (electric or gas, don't know).

You DO know that a lot of these guys on DDD don't tell the real way they do stuff?

For example, no where do you see foil used, but he has to use it at some point because he says he uses the Au Jus. Guess he could use a pan to catch the drippings but I didn't see any.

For points, he added seasoning to the cut portion and then smoked it for 4 hours more. FYI it was a HUGE point.

Thanks for the responses. Im pretty sure the quality is a good starting point.I have had some success with the more expensive cuts but I notice a lot of people on this forum talk about using Sams or Wally world briskets with great success. Now to the temps, I have always been in the 235 to 250 range I have foiled some and not foiled some. I seem to get tender but dry if that makes sense. I have checked temps inside the cooker and found them spot on. And about that giving up thing. IT AIN'T HAPPENING. Buy the way the Smoking Guns episode was years back and I believe DR.BBQ was on but the memories don't get better with age. I did go back and check an episode of about The Farmers Market in Dallas TX. I think back to other shows as well that most are showing slices off the point cuts and not so much the flat. Thanks for the help I guess i'll have to stop being such a tightwad.

Sam's & Wally both sell Choice & Select briskets depending on what the buyers purchase. It's very possible to turn out a great Select brisket with depth of knowledge.

Odds are in your favor by purchasing a Choice or higher grade packer. Knowing what to look for is also key. Things I always look for:

The far end of the flat to be as thick as possible

The top fat to be creamy white and firm.

The underside shows striation of decent to high marbling.

A bit of flex in the bendability is a +

Buy the best you can afford, keep notes.

Use the toothpick to test for tender in the flat.

Sooner or later you'll get "there"

INJECT, INJECT, INJECT!

KOSMOS & Butchers are both good. I use about half the amount of powder recommended & shoot for about 2 ounces/pound.

Here's my 2 cents:
The first 4 briskets I smoked (on FE100) I literally threw out. If you dropped the first one on your foot you would break you foot! I thought is Pork Butts are great at 200 internal temp beef would be too. Nope, don't work. I tried flats (I don't like them)whole packers is what I settled on. I rub 'em down, put in cold smoker fat side up and smoke around 14 hours. I used a meat thermometer (in flat end) and pulled at 180...let 'em rest about 8 minutes then slice and chop (I smoke a full load of 5 packers)and reheating won't dry out the brisket. Now I just probe the meat to decide when to pull cause I learned on the forums "It ain't done till it's done

quote:

Originally posted by Joe M:
INJECT, INJECT, INJECT!

KOSMOS & Butchers are both good. I use about half the amount of powder recommended & shoot for about 2 ounces/pound.

No, no, no

Im going to have to jump in with my nickels worth since you said it three times.

I'm sorry but when I see people suggesting to inject that's fine for contest I guess but really for home use injecting isn't the answer, it's a bandaid.

Nothing better than a great brisket, rubbed down with a good pepper blend and cooked without foil.

Sure, go ahead and inject, but I don't recommend that as the solution, injecting won't solve a bad brisket cooking method.

Try one each way and let us know how it works out.

quote:

Originally posted by Smokin'
Sure, go ahead and inject, but I don't recommend that as the solution, injecting won't solve a bad brisket cooking method.

Agreed!

quote:

Originally posted by Joe M:
Try one each way and let us know how it works out.

True Dat

Similar issue, when I do briskets the point hits 195 and I pull them out but often the flat is only around 178 or so. I get excellent flavor throughout and the point is moist but the flat seems a bit dry and firm to me. Part of me is tempted to cook until the flat reaches 195 but I worry that the point will be mush by then. Any advice from those of you who have done many more briskets in the Amerique than I have? I am hoping I don't have to foil or split the brisket or something like that.

Full details: Newer Amerique < 1 year old. I am usually doing two briskets at a time, top two racks, 14-17 pound full packers of Choice grade (Certified Angus Brisket, for whatever that designation is worth) from Restaurant Depot. I cook fat side down, injected with the recipe from Myron Mixon's book and rubbed with Moola from Slap Yo Daddy. Cold smoker, 4 oz mesquite, set to 260 degrees, usually takes around 12 hours. I do this "no peek" and use a remote thermometer to monitor 3 spots on the two briskets as well as the pit temp.

Thank you in advance for your advice on a more moist brisket flat!

-TC

The extra fat will keep the point from overcooking, but I don't normally see that extreme a difference between the two so I think it might be your therm or you're hitting a pocket of fat in the point.

Cook it until the middle of the flat reaches until it's probe tender. There is no "magic" with the 195. That's just a ballpark.

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinOkie:
Cook it until the middle of the flat reaches until it's probe tender. There is no "magic" with the 195. That's just a ballpark.

I find that most of the time, 195 is a bit underdone for the flat. Follow Smokin's advice for testing tender with a probe, skewer, etc.

Remember finish temps are relative... 195 degree IT cooking at 250 degrees is different than 195 degrees cooking at 300 degrees....

What I mean is yeah I start probing a brisket flat for done-ness on my FEC at about 195 degrees... I said "START"... It isn't done until it's tender. Then I REST it usually for 2 hours or more in a cambro or the FTC method.

However, if I cook the same brisket on my Gateway Drum... I cook at 300 degrees and the brisket wont be done until about 210-212 internal temp.

Different grades of meat will be tender at different finishing temps. Every brisket is different.

I NEVER... repeat NEVER worry about the temp in the point... at my last comp I probed my point for fun... and it was 219 when I took it off the pit... just sayin' (I cooked it longer than the flat obviously)

I agree with Smokin' (can't believe a just typed that) a brisket cooked without foil and injection can be really great...

BUT
Certainly wrapping in foil during the cook and injecting are not "necessary," however, there is a reason nearly all competition cooks wrap brisket with foil and some type of liquid during the cook... and nearly all will inject as well... necessary, no... but it certainly helps hedge your bet for an excellent product. Not to mention add flavor layers and moisture.

Here's a good starting point...
Cook at 225-250 degrees - Fat up or down
At an internal temp of 165 to 170 in the flat, wrap fat down with 2 layers of foil. Add a can of beef consomme before sealing the foil. Cook at same temp until flat reaches 195. Start probing with your thermometer or a tooth pick at that point. When it slides in with minimal resistance... you're done. Remove it open the foil and allow the heat to vent for a few minutes (this will halt further cooking while holding). Reseal the foil and wrap the brisket in 1-2 old towels and put it in a cooler (NO ICE!!! ). Let it rest there for at least an hour. Preferably 2 or more. When you take it out to slice it will still be too hot to touch, let it cool on the cutting board for a bit... then slice across the grain... Save the juice from the foil. You can use this for more flavor or to pour over the meat to help with reheating leftovers later...

This isn't foolpoof... and as I said all briskets (and smokers) are different... but this is how I cooked briskets on my SM020 for years...

After you get that dialed in... start considering injections Butcher BBQ is a good place to start.

Nordy

quote:

Originally posted by Nordy:
...I agree with Smokin' (can't believe a just typed that) a brisket cooked without...

Nordy

OMG you actually said that in Type?

Guess I really can retire now, hell has frozen over

I just recently joined the forum and have an AmerQue. I'm guessing what was said about quality of meat does effect end product. What temp should I start at if I don't intend on foiling the meat.and how long

Not an expert by any means on brisket but I've had good luck in my Amerique cooking between 225-250 and I generally figure about 1.25 hours a pound after trimming to get me in the ballpark. When the time and internal temp ( I start checking about 190-195 )get close I use a wood skewer to probe the brisket looking for it go go through like butter. I check every half hour or so after that until it's as tender as I'm looking for.

Nanuk, welcome to forum! Check out the 101's. They will get you started. http://www.cookshack.com/store...kin-Okies-101-Series

I use an AQ. I start my packer briskets before bedtime at 180 with oak. When I wake up I bump temp to 270. Finished when it passes the skewer test as noted earlier. Timing and temp can vary from above depending on weight and time dinner is planned.

It took me 3 or 4 briskets until I found the exact process I liked. Take notes and be patient. It will produce awesome food for you.

PS I recommend packer briskets only. If you smoke just the flat, they dry out and foil will be required to prevent this.

I've had success, even with flats, with a process similar to that of Soleman. I start late at night (11:00 pm) with 200 degrees in my AQ, then in the am (8:00 am) boost it to 225, monitoring temp all day and boosting again to 250 or higher if necessary to get it to over 200 IT by 6:00 or so. Then FTC for an hour or so and serve. See the URL below if you are interested. Sorry I don't know how to post it any better. Maybe someone can help me. Good luck!

http://forum.cookshack.com/eve...rum_scope=2491028883

I am wondering where you place your temp probe in the meat.

The thickest part of the flat, as near to the center as I can get it.

With my SM025, I was beginning to get frustrated with briskets too... but i think it was just my technique. (i probably do maybe 5 a year)the grade definite makes a difference IMO between choice & prime.

After some reading, bought some red butchers paper.... after 5 hours or so i take it off and wrap it tight. Then place it back in for the remaining cook.

around 12 hours for a good sized trimmed packer @ 225

Oh my, it turned out so good, the color, bark, everything was perfect for my taste.

I would try wrapping it with the butcher paper as I described. I'll be trying at least one brisket a month now to get it down.

A lesson in "It's done when it's done":

I have done hundreds of smokes in my original 009 and in my current 025, but, other than 3 lb. corned beef points, I haven't done a regular, whole brisket in years (although I make notes on every smoke, I left my old, old records with my 009 when I sold my house, and, on request, left the smoker). Finally decided to try my first "choice," packer brisket in the 025. The brisket was 12 lbs., and I figured minimum temperature to 190* was probably 12 hours. With a rub of Montreal Steak Seasoning, the brisket went in at 11 pm. @ 225*. I checked on it several times during the early morning, and the smoker temp. was under 100*. I finally really fell asleep, and when I got up at 8 am, the temp. probes (one in flat, one in point) registered 205*. Pokes with a Thermopen read the same. 9 1/2 hours?! The samples of flat from the end seemed a bit dry; samples from the point were perfect. Not sure what happened to reduce my predicted time by half (maybe the flat too thin; I don't suspect the smoker was running hot), but the brisket is still like meat candy. Next time, and it will be soon, I will keep a closer watch....

quote:

Originally posted by michaelstano:
A lesson in "It's done when it's done":

I have done hundreds of smokes in my original 009 and in my current 025, but, other than 3 lb. corned beef points, I haven't done a regular, whole brisket in years (although I make notes on every smoke, I left my old, old records with my 009 when I sold my house, and, on request, left the smoker). Finally decided to try my first "choice," packer brisket in the 025. The brisket was 12 lbs., and I figured minimum temperature to 190* was probably 12 hours. With a rub of Montreal Steak Seasoning, the brisket went in at 11 pm. @ 225*. I checked on it several times during the early morning, and the smoker temp. was under 100*. I finally really fell asleep, and when I got up at 8 am, the temp. probes (one in flat, one in point) registered 205*. Pokes with a Thermopen read the same. 9 1/2 hours?! The samples of flat from the end seemed a bit dry; samples from the point were perfect. Not sure what happened to reduce my predicted time by half (maybe the flat too thin; I don't suspect the smoker was running hot), but the brisket is still like meat candy. Next time, and it will be soon, I will keep a closer watch....

Different element in both cookers may have resulted in more direct heat in the 025. No reason to put a probe in the point it will be perfect when the flat is ready....

Dry flat with a little tuffness...under cooked

Dry flat with falling a part slices...over cooked

moist flat with slight tug on slices...PERFECT!
good guide to go by....

temp means nothing, as Smokin' says "it's done when it's done"