Brining a Self-Basting Bird

I've wondered about that and your theory make sense- I was given a solution added bird to cook, would I want to adjust the brine (salt) solution and/or brining time or go with the posted instructions? Thanks much-

That's the question I'll have to figure out the scientific answer.

If you'll look at the bird, look for % solution and the list of ingredients in the solution. Tell me both of those and we'll figure something out.

My brines are typically slightly lower in salt than many call for.

Just from habit,I brine them all,except Butterball.

Seems to work,without knowing exactly why.

Here you go Smokin' and thanks- It's an 8% solution with the following ingredients (listed in order): turkey broth, salt, sodium phosphates, sugar and flavoring. No msg or gluten. This is a 14lb Safeway house brand turkey.

so that's on the lower end of solutions Brian.

We can try one of the following:

1. Brine normally. Normal recipe, normal time. I don't think there will be any impact

2. Brine it with a lower solution of salt, to try to draw some out. Maybe 3/4 of a cup, not one cup.

3. If you'e worried, don't brine, can't experiment on T-Day (although I do all the time)

At 8% I think it's pretty low.

14 lbs = 224 ozs
8% of 224 = 17.92 oz of injected liquid.

The only thing I can't figure is % of salt in any of the enhanced birds.

My theory (it's a theory, no proof) is that the lower end injections aren't to worry, just brine normally.

The solution added of between 10 and 20%, reduce the salt by x %, maybe 3/4 cup per gallon

For birds over 20% solution added, why did you buy that bird, it's just salt (I'd still brine those but with a weaker solution of salt to pull more salt out) say 1/2 cup per gallon

I believe they are shot up with a butter/water sol'n.

I had been taught this years ago by cooks that cooked a lot of turkeys,and they didn't feel they needed it.

Also,buy what is on sale cheap,brine it,and cook correctly.

like I said,nothing scientific-it just seems to work for me.

Any Bird (or meat) that has a ingredient list attached has been injected with something. Salt/Brine only dries out the meat and you pay more for it. If buying a frozen bird, omit the brine. Better to enhace it with spices such as pepper, onion, celery, sage, rosemary, etc.

Tom, why not brine Butterballs?

NCGUY68, if a brine dries out the meat, why do so many swear by it?

Does anyone know the process by which the processors inject turkeys and other meat? Does a big multi-needled injector come down on them as they are going down the line and inject them?

I believe the process is called " tumbling" and you can probably google it.

Sorta like a washing machine that uses pressure.

They make small home sized units.

I think we won one at the "Jack" for overall placement in top 10.

I have had it explained,but really wasn't interested enough to pay attention.

I believe Butterballs are shot up with a butter/water sol'n.

quote:

Originally posted by NCGuy68:
...Salt/Brine only dries out the meat

Well throw that out there and see if we dont jump on that theory

You going to have to defend that statement. As written, it's 100% wrong for brining. We're not talking about salt as a dry cure, we're talking about brining. Have you brined any poultry?

And I know, that the companies do it to enhance normally dry birds to make the consumer happy (their theory, not mine) so injecting a solution of salt water doesn't make it more dry.

Yes, you're paying them for a solution that has been injected, it's mostly water, so your costs are slightly increased (that's a different thread, not here). But since many people can't find NON-Enhanced birds, we're discussing those.

But the point of the thread, was to talk about how to improve an enhanced bird. If you want to discuss the theory that brining dries out a bird, please start a new thread, I think will be an interesting read.

I started an 18lb fresh Butterball in brine this morning for an early Thursday am smoke and was a little concerned reading this post. After checking Butterballs website my concerns were cleared up. Fresh Butterballs no solution added, only frozen birds.
This forum is great, thanks Okie and others.

Good Point Mi Hile

Butterballs is a brand for a GROUP of turkeys. I saw at least 8 different "butterballs".

Read the label, it tells the tale

When this thread started I knew I had seen some research on it, and obsessive as I am, I dug until I found it. November/December:2004, Cook's Illustrated brined turkey breasts and measured resultant salt levels under a few different scenarios.

(Do note that these are turkey breasts and the times vs salinity of the brining solutions are there for purposes of their experiment, and not a guide for brining a whole bird.)

Briefly, their results are as follows:

Fresh turkey brined for 4 hours (1C table salt per gallon H2O) caused a 0.22 percent sodium content by weight.

Fresh turkey brined for 12 hours (1/2 C table salt/Gal. H2O) = 0.21 percent sodium by weight.

Unbrined self-basting frozen turkey brined as above = 0.27 percent sodium by weight.

Brined self-basting frozen turkey brined as above = o.34 percent sodium by weight.

Frozen kosher turkey (unbrined)= 0.16 percent sodium by weight.

The article notes that 1C of table salt (due to its small granule size) equals 2C of Koshering salt (Diamond) and 1 1/2C Koshering salt (Morton). It also notes that 1 percent sodium by weight equals approximately 1.9 teaspoons of salt per pound in the flesh.

The article suggests that it IS possible to overbrine and make the bird unpalatably salty if brining a self-basting bird, or brining for an excessive period of time, or with a too strong saline solution.

'My' conclusion is that we don't know the exact percent of sodium content at which we would consider turkey 'saturated' with sodium and could receive no more. But it appears that that point is well beyond our acceptable level for our palates.

Quoting Cook's The short answer to your question? Don't brine a self-basting turkey; it will be unpalatably salty.

Thanks always like research, very helpful. Although it raises more questions for me than provides answers.

Kinda proves one of my theories. For a self basting bird, reduce the salt in your brine to draw out some of the salt inside the bird.

They also didn't address the smount of salt already in the self-basting. Some of them have lots, some have little.

And in a couple of tests I did some time back, no one commented that the self-basting that had been brined was "too salty", but the self-brined was only about 15% and the brine was a weak brine.

Maybe I'll have to write Cook's and get some more testing.

Smokin, I agree the article left a lot of things unanswered, especially for 'obsessives.'

Among the many things unanswered, it didn't state the degree of saturation, or range, that they, or their panel of tasters, would consider approriate. Even knowing that every bird, size, depth of breast, amount of fat, etc. differs in the way they will take to a brine, it would have given us something to shoot for!

I'm just 'supposin' here, but if one soaked a self-baster in plain water it might cause the denser salt solution to leach back out of the bird, however it would probably result in a drier bird, as the density of the saline solution is the carrier for the 'liquid' (whether that's water, chicken stock, vegetable stock, or whatever) which is what we want to get into the muscle tissue of the bird...making it succulent. I don't believe it is actually the level of salt that makes the flesh better eating but rather the amount of liquid carried in with it.

I 'believe' it is the higher density of the saline solution that overpowers the cell walls of the muscle tissue causing the brine to move into the bird, and therefore being immersed in a lesser dense solution would cause the reverse to happen.

yes, a salted piece of turkey tastes better, but whether the salt is on the inside or the outside doesn't make the big difference in quality of product, but the amount of 'juices' in the muscle tissue makes a huge difference...if only in the amount of gravy that has to be used to make the bird 'go down'. hahahaha

I also think that the degree of salinity of a piece of brined turkey is only a simple quantifiaction of the amount of liquid that has been absorbed...which is really what we're after.

Suppose this...let's really brine a bird. Then set it in the fridge, open air to dry, and overdo it...like maybe dry for 30 days. What you're going to be left with is a salty, dry bird that won't taste good. What we want is a moist bird, and I think all of this brining effort is to accomplish that...yes, and get a bit of saltiness to the flesh, cause it tastes better.

You're probably remember the 1950's "cook the bird in foil" craze which turned out moist birds, but tasted 'stewed' and not roast? I think brining is our current best alternative to get both moisture and a good roast/smoked fowl taste.

Just my 37 cents worth of thoughts.