Brining Basic

Best piece I have seen on brining in a long time. Thanks for sharing!

David

Always happy to see new brining references so I'll give it a read.

However, you don't need to go to 500 to crisp the skin. I'll have to see what he says.

If I had web page skills I could making brining 101 look pretty too

It's a good brining tutorial especially if you're a scientist. Enjoyed reading it cause I love everything Q, but I don't need "why it works" as much as the "how to's" and "techniques" like 101 gives us.

Well I read through it and I'm probably the only other guy on the internet that would understand it. Good article.

However....

No one really takes him up on his

quote:

...if it's 150 then it's overcooked

Not sure I want to get into a deep discussion with him, I think he simplifies some concerns and misses a few others, but overall does a decent job.

Oh, and this one I disagreed with

quote:

@Burger365

You're right. Adding flavorings to your brine has a pretty minimal effect on the flavor of the meat. That's because the meat has a higher affinity for the sodium ions than it does for most common flavor compounds. When you put your meat in the brine, salt will selectively migrate into the meat, which basically means that there is less room for the other flavorings.

So reading that, the only thing you should ever put in a brine is salt.

Now see what you did DB, you got me thinking.

I have always been happy with my beer can chickens both on the grill and in the smoker. However, this past Sunday, I decided to try to brine the bird before smoking it. I had read that a whole chicken should be brined for anywhere from 1 hour to 8 hours. I decided to stay on the low end and took it out of the brine and rinsed it after about 90 minutes.

I also added 2 tablespoons of our favorite rosemary/garlic seasoning that we have used for years. The smoked chicken was extraordinarily juicy and tender and I was totally pleased with that result. However, there was no hint of seasonings in the meat. When I do beer can chicken, the seasonings seem to totally permeate the meat.

So, my question for Smokin or anyone else is, if you disagree with the statement that adding flavors to a brine has a minimal effect on the flavor of the meat, can you tell me what I did wrong?

As always, THANX to all for the great advice and help!

Smokin's Holiday brine adds nice flavors to the turkey. Moist too. I also like beer can chicken on the grill. Very moist and crispy skin. Nice combo.

I'm still searching for that perfect brine. I like the moisture they impart but not a fan of the soy sauce taste from the holiday brine. The honey taste didn't some thru on the one I tried.

DB

quote:

Originally posted by BBQTom:
So, my question for Smokin or anyone else is, if you disagree with the statement that adding flavors to a brine has a minimal effect on the flavor of the meat, can you tell me what I did wrong?

As stated above, I do disagree with him. Done it too many times and it's more than a salty taste I get, I get plenty of flavors.

90 min isn't long enough for just a breast, let alone a full chicken.

Go for 6 or 8 hours. Keep in mind that the brine has to penetrate the skin so it takes a while.

Now, for ME? I don't think BCC works at all. The beer doesn't boil or steam at a high enough temp to really have an effect. I know it works for some, but for me, it's smoke and mirrors. But I always say, that's my preference, if it works for you and your flavors that's great. Me, I just drink the beer for flavor

quote:

Originally posted by TN Q:
I'm still searching for that perfect brine. I like the moisture they impart but not a fan of the soy sauce taste from the holiday brine. The honey taste didn't some thru on the one I tried.

DB

There are 1,000's of brines.

Start with 1 gallon water, 1 cup salt, 1 cup sugar and go from there.

The flavors do carry through, you just have to go with tastes that you like.

Do this, make up a base brine, then make 3 or 4 different versions of that.

Put two chicken breasts in each, then compare the flavors.

Your tastes buds need to determine what you want in the brine.

OH, and the rub, if any needs to not overpower it.

Smokin, Tom, et., al., -- What's your take on the statement:

"Although the government will have you believe that 165°F is the minimum temperature to cook your turkey to, clearly you need your turkey to be within the 140 to 150°F range to ensure juiciness."

I know Smokin briefly mentioned it above but -- Can poultry safely be done (both white & dark meat) at 140*? That goes against all I've ever read. My understanding was 150* minimum.

Appreciate any thoughts/input!

Thanks!

Let's take it to a new thread, I'll post it here in Turkey, just a new thread.

Don't want to threadjack.

Thanks!

Like Smokin',I was about to give some point,by point, comments.

But,figured the proof is in the tasting.

BTW,Smokin' is recognized,arguably, as the brining authority on the bbq circuit.

I searched for any serious tasters/comps,etc-other than chemists/engineers and never really pinned anything down on the author/chemist.

He never addresses carryover times in high temp roasting,or frying-which is another whole discussion.

I decided,why not randomly select a chef,that is classically trained,been chef for some great American restaurants,and many of us may have sampled his product.

I have had his duck,turkey,chicken/capon .

Emeril Lagasse.

As a comp cook,and nationally certified judge in all the major bbq organizations,I am always looking for technique and results.

Here is one of Emeril's more basic brining procedures,and brines.

Brine:
1 cup salt
1 cup brown sugar
2 oranges, quartered
2 lemons, quartered
6 sprigs thyme
4 sprigs rosemary
To make the brining solution, dissolve the salt and sugar in 2 gallons of cold water in a non-reactive container (such as a clean bucket or large stockpot, or a clean, heavy-duty, plastic garbage bag.) Add the oranges, lemons, thyme, and rosemary.

Note: if you have a big turkey and need more brine than this, use 1/2 cup salt and 1/2 cup brown sugar for every gallon of water.

10 lb turkey.
Soak the turkey in the brine, covered and refrigerated, for at least 4 hours and up to 24 hours.

Preheat the oven to 325 degrees F.

Remove the turkey from the brine and rinse well under cold running water.
. Continue roasting with the breast side up until an instant-read meat thermometer registers 165 degrees F when inserted into the largest section of thigh (avoiding the bone), about 2 3/4 to 3 hours total cooking time.

Not that Emeril is perfect,and he attended only Johnson and Wales,rather than a top math/engineering school.


But,as mentioned earlier,the results may be more important,than the math/chemistry.

Jusy my $0.02

thanks Tom. I'll have to give Emeril's brine a try; Food Network actually has this linked on their home page for the holidays.

DB

quote:

As stated above, I do disagree with him. Done it too many times and it's more than a salty taste I get, I get plenty of flavors.

90 min isn't long enough for just a breast, let alone a full chicken.

Go for 6 or 8 hours. Keep in mind that the brine has to penetrate the skin so it takes a while.

Thanx for the advice. I really did like the tender and juicy chicken that brining produced but I was hoping for the flavors that I added. I suspected that I hadn't brined it long enough so, thanx again for confirming that. I'm brining a turkey for our early Thanksgiving dinner this Saturday. I'll plan to keep it in the brine for about 24 hours and I'll add the spices and see how that tastes.

Happy Thanksgiving,

Sorry - looks like I did something wrong with the quote but it was from Smokin's post earlier today.

Tom -- Just FYI: You can edit your post when mistakes are made. Go to the icon in the lower right-hand corner that looks like a folder with a pencil eraser, click on it and make all the corrections you want.

Fixed it

Turkey can be edible at lower temps,but the mouth feel may leave something to be desired.

The commonly used temp is 137º for trichinosis.

Except in some wild game,don't think there has been any reported,since the 1920 s.

140ºhas been the traditional safety in foodholding temp.

I believe that they may now accept 135º for holding,since it is for a period of time.

I wasn't specifically using the Emeril recipe as the "best",but as one that follows Smokin's approaches and what we tend to share on the forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Wheelz:
Tom -- Just FYI: You can edit your post when mistakes are made. Go to the icon in the lower right-hand corner that looks like a folder with a pencil eraser, click on it and make all the corrections you want.

Thanx! I'll remember that for the future!