Brining Questions for "Brining 101"

Just some thoughts that we've talked about previously that you might wanna cover in Brining 101:

1. Can you brine too long?
2. Does the strength of the brine matter (dilution factor)?
3. Can you reuse brine?
4. Does the weight of the bird matter?
5. Can you brine a frozen bird?
6. Should I use a rub if I brined my bird?
7. How scared should I be brining & cooking a bird for a party of 15 if I've never brined before? In other words, how hard is it? And, is it easy to screw up?

Just some thoughts that you might wanna cover in the Brining 101 treatise.

Good luck.

How long to brine and is there too long?

Can you brine and inject?

Can you change flavors with brine?

What is the cook's reason to brine,anyway?

If you can keep your brined fowl down below 38�the entire time,and are always cooking to an internal of 160�+ is TenderQuick necessary.

Should you pay attention to lowering the salt in your rub,if you use a traditional salt brine?

Food nutritionists say honey breaks down at 160�,so should you wait till after you boil the brine and it cools some to add the honey?

We just brined and smoked a turkey breast which turned out great. Matter of fact I will be having the last sandwich of it for lunch today!
Can you add additional flavors to the brine easily? herbs spices etc.
Can the brine be used for a second time for the same food type?

How 'bout something remedial, like "What's the difference between brining and marinating?"...

What is the difference, anywhat?

GREAT Questions, see I knew you guys would come through for me.

TJG.

Brining is a process, that by "Osmosis" exchanges the external solution (brine) with the internal liquids of the brined item.

Marinating doesn't involve Osmosis (unless it's a really salty solution) I think of marinating as "soaking". Marinating to me tends to be something for the outer layers while brining reaches deep down inside.

For AAHH:

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No (normally)
4. Yes (lenght of time)
5. Thaw it first
6. If you want
7. Not very, once I'm done with helping you. And yes, you can screw up anything me too

If you're scared, go with my Chicken Brining article and you'll do great. Really! Experiment with that. Do some with brine and without brine and decide for yourself.
Here's the link:

Chicken in a Cookshack

Smokin'

Hey Smokin',

You've turned me into a brining afficianado (sp?). I was asking questions that I think that Brining 101 should cover for the "budding grasshopper" (newbie). LOL.

As for the difference between brining and marinating, I posted an article a while back that you (or anyone) can do a search on. You may want to include that also in the Brining 101.

Thems is me thoughts.

yes, but we've got lurkers, so I wanted to go ahead an answer. And just where is that post of yours? Feel free to remind us now and then, I don't know about you, but I'm already forgetting the 5000 posts out there...so many good ones.

What possible reason could there be for Tenderquick in a brine? Plain canning salt will do...or any non-iodized salt. Even iodized will do for the short time you are brining.

Tenderquick is cheating to me...and poison. It contains polypropylene glycol. Sounds like anti-freeze you wear! Ya want that in your food?

Point Taken and I'll put and find some information about this in Brining 101.

Opinions differ Andi, and calling it Poison will scare a lot of people. I'll have to find the location, but a food scientist disagreed with this in another forum. It's been discussed before and I'll see what I can find.

If you have a problem with Morton's Products, please contact them and let us know their response.

Might actually make for some funny reading.

Okie dokey, Okie! But...I still think it's cheating. Brining to CURE is one thing, brining to cook another.

I had my first brined and smoked turkey year before last. It was done in a water smoker, and I thought I'd died and gone to heaven! It was so moist and flavorful, I can never make a chicken or turkey w/o brining ever again! Last year, I brined a turkey and did a Beer Can Turkey on the barbie. Used a Fosters Lager, and had a lot of fun getting that baby propped up right. It was The Best turkey I ever made!

My simple brine is 3 tbs. canning salt to each gallon of water. Then I throw in whatever spices will be going with my menu. Always peppercorns, always garlic.

Andi
Your right cure is one thing and in all brinning a cure is not needed. But if it is going to take longer than 4 hours to get the internal above 140� then TenderQuick is a very good way to insure the health of those going to eat that meat. The key is internal temp at the 4 hour mark of the cook.
This goes for poultry and ground meats.
Jim

Andi, Jim,

those are exactly points that need to be made. If you have any other points, hints, issues, etc, I'd love to include them in the Brining 101.

I've only been doing this for years and years and I'm still learning -Lots!. I think brining and Q'in have really gotten a lot of press the last 3-4 years and I want to get some good info out there.

Keep 'em coming!

Right you are, Jim Minion! I forget sometimes that not all folks live in Cold Country. And another point, when I make corned moose, I start out with WARM water! But! It has saltpeter in it, and is reefed immediately. She's been in the fridge "brining" for 3 weeks now, with no sign of rope. If it wasn't for evaporation, I could leave it in the corning solution for a year! In warm country, I'd use ice for part of my brining water. Another good brine is seawater. Perfect! If, you can find clean stuff...

Smokin'
A friend of mine from Atlanta did FAQ on brinning a few years ago, did a lot of work on it.
I'll forward it to you and use what you want.
Jim

Is that the BBQ FAQ Brining Article?

Here is what I have:

BRINING - THE COMPLETE ARTICLE ***
< Rev E >
By Mikey Lulejian
Atlanta, GA)
November 9,1999

Thanks for the info!

Mikey did a pretty good job and I know he wouldn't have a problem with you using portions.
Jim

As I always do, I reference source material, that way they can take the credit/blame for whatever I say

Smokin',

Found this in "The Best of ... Brining" archive.

From: AAHH:
I've wondered and asked the question "what's the difference between brining and marinading?" I think that I found my answer.
"Soaking meat or poultry in a light salt solution adds flavor and moisture deep in the meat in a way that a marinade, which just touches the surface, cannot. It works by osmosis: The muscle of the meat absorbs the salt water, relaxing the proteins and causing them to trap the water and flavorings."

Published Sunday, November 21, 1999 - The Charlotte Observer Brining the bird A long bath in flavored water makes a turkey moist and tender

By KATHLEEN PURVIS Food Editor

below is a link to the article.

Happy Qin' - AAHH http://www.charlotte.com/observer/1121brine.htm

Hey Smokin,
I have a question about your honey brine recipe. According to recipe per gallon of water add: 1 cup kosher salt, and 2 ounces of tenderquick.
Do you mean 2 weighed ounces or 1/4 cup of tenderquick?
Thank you in advance for straightening me out on the units of measure.

Keep on Q'in
terry

Check out this "short" discussion about Brining:

Brining

In there I think it says:

1oz Tenderquick = 2 Tablespoons
2oz Tenderquick = 4 Tablespoons

I tend to underdo Tenderquick, not something you want to do too much -- you'll find out what "salty" means.

Smokin'

I read a lot of folks that complain that the meat is too salty after brining so they want cut down salt. By cutting down on salt osmosis does not work as well and that is what brining is about.
I believe the other way to handle this to rinse the meat very well and dry, twice. Next cut the salt out of any rub you may put on the meat and add more sugar in the form of turbinado or brown sugar.
I believe you will find this will get rid of the too salty condition.
Jim

Good thread! Smokin, I'm not forgetting my over-brined bird of awhile back. So, I'm thinking of something scientific. A salinometer would help sort saltiness thing out. And, I seem to recall that Andi (wouldn't you know) actually uses a salinometer for some of her numerous preparations. That's the only mention of this intrument that I have ever seen in this or any other forum.
Maybe Morton, or some other wealthy agency, could do a bunch of salinity tests, and cross-check them with "cups per gallon" and other such conventional measures.

Done right, brining is awesome. But, if you cross that threshold, you pickle your loved ones.

so, you want to buy something else. I've done a lot of research on the subject, but haven't found many "scientific" references -- yet. If you or anyone see a reference to brining, send it my way.

I'll have to mention the "egg test"....no it's not for people with Big Green Eggs wanting to join our Forum.

Drop an egg into the solution, if it's salty enough the egg floats, if not, it won't.

How's THAT for scientific.

I2BBQ: IF I put my head down and did it...I could do that research...easily. You may be some Docs around here...but I'm A Scientist! I have a Degree! Okay, a BS in Ornithology, but I still know my baseline research. The steps to begin are all ready in my head. But! I have so much on my head-plate right now, I don't believe I can corrolate. So, you start! Here is a baseline formula to start:

If a medium peeled spud floats...it's 100%.

Andi,

100% what?

And, at a given salinity (and I don't pretend to know what that concentration is), a solution should float any spuds of the same density, regardless of size . . . provided it's deep enough so that the spud doesn't rest on the bottom of its container. But it strikes me that a solution would have to pucker your kisser if it were strong enough to float a potato (or is that potatoe?)

Hey,Smokin'.

In case you haven't seen it yet,SteveP in Houston posted that the Nov/Dec issue of Cook's Illustrated has a two page feature " The Basics of Brining" that is concise and well illustrated.

quote:

If a medium peeled spud floats...it's 100%.

Oh, a spud! A potato. Dang, I was floating ball bearings in my brine. No wonnnnnnnnnnder.

Was waiting for you to get that; and trusted that you would. So, what d'yall call dem dere tubers down dere?

Spuds is understood. But Andi and ornithology, I've got to question.

2 turtle doves.

A partridge in a pear tree.

Andi, you know damn well you would eat every bird in sight.

5 and 20 black birds...........right into your pie.

Birding with Andi Flannagan. Think about it.

(And bring your 20 gauge and plenty of No. 9 shot.)

Puffin stuffed with eider duck liver pate.

Summer ptarmigan with plover tongues.

You can't kid me, lady. I know you homesteader types........

But, I'll tell you a secret. In Belize (that's a country) they call the great blue heron a "full pot." How 'bout that!