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Competition Brisket Issues

FM Former Member
Hi everyone, I'm hoping to get some advice that could help resolve my trials and tribulations with brisket. In competitions my brisket has placed first through about 2/3's back. I'm having major issues with the brisket drying out on me after I slice it and it sits for 5 - 10 minutes. In my last comp 4 more brisket points (We scored 149 and change) would have taken us to regionals in the Sam's Club Series so I'm really racking my brain trying to figure this out. Here's what I'm doing:

The meat is pre trimmed at home and the packer is broken down into a flat and a point. At the comp I inject with Butcher's at half strength (no sugar or acidity) at 4pm and it gets seasoned and put on the FEC, fat side down, set at 180 degrees at 10 pm for 10 hours. At 8 it's wrapped in foil w/ a little juice and put back on the FEC at 250 with a thermometer in the thickest part. and cook it until 200 degrees and then I start toothpicking it for tenderness every 20 - 30 minutes. Once it's tender it goes on the table, the foil is opened for 5 minutes to vent and then it's put in the Cambro. Typically it rests for 3-3.5 hours. Before turn in I cube my point for burnt ends and the jus from the foil goes in a cup so the fat floats to the top. I use a thinned sauce on top of the brisket. I test a slice from 1/4 to the front and 1/4 to the back for the best section and take slices from there. It's put in the box, I taste the jus to make sure it isn't too salty and then I use my injector to pull some from the bottom and put a little along the slices. The box is cleaned and it's to the judges table. Once that box leaves I'll put 3 slices aside under cover, use the jus, and then go back to it 15 minutes later. It's a whole lot dryer than when I sliced it. Really!?! Argh!!!!! The one time I got a 1st was using on a large BGE at 210 the entire time but other than that everything is the same.

That's my dilemma and it's kicking my behind. Does anyone have any ideas? I have 2 briskets sitting in the refrigerator with practice written all over them. The briskets used have been SRF's but I am switching to choice at RD.
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cal 2cal 2Member
Awe shucks Maxque!,

We all want to learn how to cook those SRF's briskets. I would think a fella would cook those a little different then what a REAL brisket is cooked?

When turning those(SRF) in a feller is really playing with fire. Some experienced judges just don't think the mouth fell,texture is what beef country brisket should be...so they judge it to those standards. One week it is a walk and the next week, with the same product, you don't understand why your in the middle of the pack and two judges gave you 7's on taste,oh well.
M maxqMember
Actually, my PM wasn't about Wagyu briskets, rather a few techniques Coach has had very good success with lately. Just thought I'd pass 'em along to AZScott. Nothing really secret here. I'm sure Coach won't mind.

I'd prefer to keep this conversation amongst ourselves as it involves a few techniques developed by a friend of mine, who's been comping for 3 years. This year he's taken 4 1st place brisket wins. He's been using Angus brisket in the 15# weight range aged 40-50 days in Cry-O-Vac. He uses Butchers Injection with Butchers Prime Dust for the injection. He uses a FEC100 and cooks the same as you do. He places a foil pan with less than an inch of water under the brisket shelf to add moisture to the FEC environment. He'll foil at the 165 +/- mark but instead of wrapping the brisket, he places it in the foil pan and foil the top. The rest of his cook is the same as yours until turn in time. He waits to the last second to cut his slices. Meanwhile he's tasted the pan juices, adjust flavor with au jus if necessary, strains & skims fat. The jus is kept warm. Finally he takes his 6+ slices as they'd go into his box, arrange them on a wide spatula, lowers them into the warm jus, tilts the spat to drain excess liquid and away it goes. Yes, 15 minutes after slicing the brisket will be drying out. The trick is to retain as much moisture as possible during the cook and box prep...and of course, starting with a great piece of meat. Hope that helps. Let me know if I can add to any of that. Good luck!

I added later that another issue might be cooking the point and flat separately.

OK...all 'fessed up now Smiler
FM Former Member
Okay, I won't ban you....

LOL

Actually it's that last step, I call...

"...the dip"

Brisket WILL dry out as soon as you cut, it's best to minimize the time as much as possible from slicing to turn in. The soak/dip is a great way for it to soak up some liquid.

Now I'll delete the thread after everyone reads it...

Wink
FM Former Member
quote:
Originally posted by NaughtyNurse:
A few thoughts;
Have you tried it with the Butcher's injection full strength?
What is the IT when you foil?
Have you tried going straight to the cambro without venting?
Not that my briskets have been doing stellar, but that's the judge's fault Roll Eyes


I have tried Butcher's full strength and find I wasn't a fan at full strength. I'll try it again.

I have tried it without venting but it overcooks on me.
FM Former Member
Has anyone ever tried putting the brisket and aus jus in a plastic vacuum seal bag, cooling the brisket in an ice bath right away, slicing it an hour before turn in's, putting the gelatinous aus jus on the slices and warming it on a tray in the FEC? Every time I do this with leftover brisket it's phenomenal and I'm thinking about playing with it this weekend.
FM Former Member
quote:
Originally posted by cal:
When turning those(SRF) in a feller is really playing with fire. Some experienced judges just don't think the mouth fell,texture is what beef country brisket should be...so they judge it to those standards. One week it is a walk and the next week, with the same product, you don't understand why your in the middle of the pack and two judges gave you 7's on taste,oh well.


Cal, I think you are right about that. I've really come full circle when it comes to my meats. I started out cooking RD meats and then moved on to wagyu, air chilled fancy chicken, and berkshire pork. My scores either went down when the changes were made or, with brisket, they have been extremely inconsistent. Now I'm back to RD and super value packs from the local grocery store.
FM Former Member
Don't take this wrong (and it might be a little threadjacking) but if I have to resort to such extreme weirdness around brisket, I don't want to compete. I cook a great brisket and use the simple method Max (Chris) refers to with juices.

But vacuums, cold bags, reheating, wow, that's so not BBQ to me. You might HAVE to do that to win...and that's just not BBQ to me. Don't get me on my SMOKIN' Box... LOL

I hope it works and you win with it, but my opinion of contest right now is pretty low. I've never posted it, but I've pretty much gone into contest retirement.
C coachMember
Let me jump in here and add some tweaks. I have thrown away the pans. I've convinced myself that will dry out a brisket. I'll take the brisket all the way to 200....check for tenderness...then wrap and cambro. I use very little rub on top. If more smoke is what you need, place a GREEN stick of your favorite wood on a grate above the firebox. Also, don't be afraid to experiment with the Butchers. I use it as a base. Other ingredients may or may not be added Wink
C coachMember
quote:
Originally posted by AZScott:
Thanks Coach. Instead of the pan are you back to foiling? I was using a hotel pan for a while with foil on top but noticed that the flavor decreased decreased and it dried it out as well. The juices ended up not braising the meat but rather steamed the meat.


No foil either. As strange as it may sound, and I argued with Maxy on this for weeks...(I was wrong) I believe the steam dries it out. Of course it only took about 500 bucks worth of meat to learn the lesson Smiler
FM Former Member
quote:
Originally posted by AZScott:
quote:
Originally posted by NaughtyNurse:
A few thoughts;
Have you tried it with the Butcher's injection full strength?
What is the IT when you foil?
Have you tried going straight to the cambro without venting?
Not that my briskets have been doing stellar, but that's the judge's fault Roll Eyes


I have tried Butcher's full strength and find I wasn't a fan at full strength. I'll try it again.

I have tried it without venting but it overcooks on me.


I was assuming you're talking about Butcher's injection, if you are talking Prime Dust then I will agree with you on using it full strength.
T tomMember
Well,I'm no expert,but have been fortunate to cook with some of the best.

Lot of good tips there,about quick drying.In Smokin's area,in an EZ UP and 30 mph winds and maybe no garnish,or sauce in the box,it is really tough.

Not sure where you are cooking,but cal,the judge,had some good points about the judges' table you land on.Cooking in major "Jack" qualifiers,or new and old judges that can't decide between 3,4,5 scores or 7,8,9 scores can skew the scores.

Also the mouth feel among heritage shoulders,ribs,packers can confuse some judges.
This comes from cooking with master judges,a lot.

Coach may cook where they intentionally don't use sanctioned trained judges.These folks get some late training and then use common sense and experienced taste to know what brisket SHOULD taste and feel like.Many good cooks around the country feel that could ? be better judging.

Like coach said,the steaming may dry worse than anything.Also ,taking some of the finest American style beef to higher temps could dry out your box and personal samples.

Like coach says cooking a bunch and comparing head to head is what most consistent cooks seem to have done.

And when coach talks about $500 of meat to learn one point,many folks would agree that could be about one month's practice and comp packers. Big Grin

Smokin' also mentions cooking good packers, traditionally without too many tricks and slicing as late as possible.

Probably,no great tips.Just my $0.02.
FM Former Member
As of right now I have one slightly trimmed packer with a nice thick flat and a Costco flat sitting in the FEC right now. We're not foiling this time for either one. The plan is to remove the point when the flat is done and let it go a little longer. All brisket will go into a Cambro unwrapped. Right now I'm running two hours behind where I would be in a comp so I'm hoping to have slices in a box at 3:30 or so. We'll let it sit for 15 minutes, open for a minute for presentation, close for 3 and taste it. I'll update later on.
FM Former Member
quote:
Originally posted by MaxQue:
2 hrs behind and you're posting here???? Roll Eyes

Good luck. Holler back after when the results are in.


Yea, pretending to have a 3:30 turn in time. I started the brisket at 10 last night and in a competition that would be 8pm.

We'll see how it goes but after pulling the flat I was quite surprised that the exterior wasn't dried out. I'll let you know how it goes and I'll try to take some pictures.
FM Former Member
Well, lots of interesting things were learned today. First, the dip does help with the juiciness of the brisket a lot. I've also concluded that it may delay the dull dryness that appears after 15 minutes but it doesn't solve it.

Second, I liked cooking the brisket without foil but it takes a lot longer. I also think that once it's pulled off it needs foil to soften the outside a touch. I don't like the point with the full packer though. When it's removed, you can trim it so everything is the same thickness.

Third, there were some great tips that I learned in this thread and I thank all of you but especially MaxQue and Coach. The journey and practice continues.
cal 2cal 2Member
May I offer one last word of wisdom. I would go back through the old brisket threads and seek out everyone that has the name Tom associated with it.

While he may not be an expert, some of us have learned a thing or two from him and will pay attention to his thoughts.

There's a reason they put brisket as the last category, if you ask me. It isn't a easy journey...but one that is rewarding.

Have FUN on the path of becoming a brisket cook.
FM Former Member
Well, it's time to test the brisket this weekend at the Sam's Club Regional in LV. I had a 16 pound packer that was aged 40 days ready to go, but when I opened it there was a nice gash along the flat. The backup is an 18 pound RD choice brisket that was packed on 4.11. I'll let everyone know how she turns out.
FM Former Member
quote:
Originally posted by cal:
... I would go back through the old brisket threads and seek out everyone that has the name Tom associated with it.

While he may not be an expert.


Actually I officially claim Tom a Brisket Expert. Tom, you can play the "aw shucks I'm not an expert" anymore

Big Grin
T tomMember
Thanks for the kind thoughts.old friend. Smiler

I guess you and I have cooked a few and with a lot of the top cooks.

AZ,as far as gashes go,that is the reaon many of us trim out our packers at home-before packing up for the road trip.

Before there was some clarification allowing trimming at home,many of us walked over to the trash barrel and discarded about 1/2 of the packers we opened.

Cooks were taking a case of packers to get the three they might cook for turnin.

Most of us throw away as many Excels as we cook at contests. Mad

One of the top cooks,I've had the pleasure of cooking with,opens his custom ordered packers,inspects them and revac pacs them for aging.

When you make regular 1,000 mile round trips and pay $100 per packer,you don't want mistakes. Wink

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