Concession & catering packaging

Hi.

I have been working on that very issue. I hate styrofoam! I find it to be bulky and uninspired, just plain boring. If I had to go with styrofoam, I would go for the black ones and pop a logo sticker on it for some pizazzz! I like paper better. So, I am searching for the right carryout packaging. I read about one place that uses metal buckets for their ribs, which works for them because they are not carry out and they reuse them, no help, but still interesting. I also found some paper box styled and barn styled containers that are printed with a basket look. As you might note, I like some style to my containers. When I did fish and chips I found the perfect packaging at little cost, my ideal solution! I used butcher paper and newspaper. The law bans the newspaper like the old fashioned English shops used, but I made cones with the butcher paper inside the newspaper. The newspapers were free. Cost was next to nothing and my problem was solved. I am looking for a another brainstorm like that for BBQ. Alcoa makes a three compartment aluminum tray with a flat lid. It is of a good size too, almost 10 inches square. I would also like to hear what others are using, especially innovative ideas.

Kate

We're wrestling with that as well. I'd like ideas that don't have a bunch of stuff people have to find a trash can for. The less trash, the better. We also need to find something people can take their food home in. Since Florida is so hot in summer, does anyone have any good ideas?
Peggy

Usually whatever the chinese restaurants are using is economical. I'm exploring Newspring products at http://www.newspring.com/. These plastic products are microwaveable and can be held in a holding oven, which is important if you want to prepackage meals for quick service at fairs and the like.

Call them and request a free sample pack.

If you are "in it to win it"...meaning in the food biz... Cost, insulating and convenience are things to look at. I hate styro too, but I use it. The reasons are listed above. Snazzy costs money--you have to pass that cost on. Washing dishes is time/space consuming and, not to mention, it sucks--trust me, I know! It is easier to throw away a bag of trash than to wash/store 200 dishes, glasses and all the eating utensils. I know that styro is not enviromentally friendly, but I am a SMOKER(another not so ecologically minded practice)and the only people it really upsets are the Hippies. I hate Hippies and most of them are Vegetarians anyway!
Remember....there are heavy duty paper alternatives and that PAYING customers like convenience.
Best wishes!
Zeb

Hi Zeb.

Snazzy and innovate are different. Innovative takes into consideration the cost and effectiveness as well as being pleasing. I proved that I can do that before and I will again. If I had used styrofoam when I owned the Fish shop I would have paid premium for the container and it wasn't the best method because of the steam factor. Soggy fish is not good. But we are on BBQ. I still would take paper over foam. I live in a tree hugger state and a paper making state. This has to be a consideration. The paper mill employs many just in my own town. I see people in the grocery store asking for paper over plastic bags constantly. We make paper, we use paper and we support our local industry. It is a real factor for me. Presentation has a real impact on sales too, you can take that to the bank! I totally agree about cost effectivness, but sometimes you have to think ouside of the box, or in this case, the styrofoam container. To combine all the elements that satisfy my needs and wants is a test of my abilities. If I can provide good packaging, with a minimum cost, less bulky in structure, that is also attractive, my solution makes good business sense. It is a can do situation. I can do it if I just think different.

Little things can make a huge difference. Take a pulled pork sandwich. Say I put the bottom bun in a container, be it foam or a paper box like Mac's use. Then I plump on the meat, so far so good. Then I place the bun smack dab on top. Wait a minute, I can do better and it won't cost me a cent or lose me a second. If I offset that top bun to the side, it looks like the meat is actually pushing that bun to the side with its fullness. The customer gets a sense of better value. Same amount of meat either way, it just looks better and the customer is happier. Cheap marketing trick? You are not cheating anyone in any way. you are just appealing to the eye.

And let's consider this: That Seafood Restaurant that is so well known has fancy drinks that come in fancy glasses with their names printed on them. They stick a dollar drink in a fifty cent glass and sell it to the customer for four or five bucks. And Mister Customer is HAPPY! I got a glass! Mister customer will be more than happy to buy your ribs in a tin bucket with your name printed on it even if he is paying for it. It just has to press his hot button. I'm not advocating pails, I am making an example. As a business person, if I can buy that bucket for fifty cents, tack on another fifty cents, and make the customer happy to get the ribs and the bucket, then I have succeeded in making a better profit and I am a better manager. It all comes down to the bottom line. I just added fifty cents to my rib profits, put out advertising for my business, made the customers kid happy with a new sand pail and did I mention that I raised my profit? I am not suggesting anyone can or should do this, but I am suggesting that serving good food and good service is not the end all. Imagination can add to your business and it should be encouraged.

I am not saying that you are wrong to use the styrofoam. It works for you so it makes sense. We all just have to win in our own fashion though. Tried and true is good, but new and different can be a boon too.

As for Hippies, I am not sure they really exist anymore. If they do, I'll take their money if they come my way! And I'll smile too!

I'm not being combative here, just stating my way of thinking. I have a strong business background too, so I'm not just blowing smoke. Yeah, I could buy expensive, snazzy packaging, anyone can, but the true challenge is in summing up those needs and wants and coming up with an Innovation that not only works, but pays off too!

With the utmost respect,
Kate

The difference may be the one between a BBQ joint and a BBQ restaurant. Down here(NC) where BBQ is almost a religion, styrofoam is just barely accepted at regular BBQ eateries. Most use paper. Our BBQ joint was in business for almost 50 years and whole we looked for better ways to do things, a hotdog was still better wrapped in wax paper. A BBQ tray(BBQ/slaw) was still best served in a Sav-A-Day wrapped in wax paper with hush puppies on top in a wax paper bag. Single BBQ plates were served in styrofoam, but multiple plates were served on partitioned paper plates and stacked in a paper box, then surrounded by hush puppies.

While I like the rib in a bucket idea, and can see it go over at the beach or a theme park(the same places where you see those cool drink glasses), if I had tried serving something in a bucket the customers would have thought we were the hippies and were maybe smoking something along with our pork.

Hi.

I am working off the premise of Concession Stand or Take-Out places. These were the original parameters of the subject.

BBQ is not almost a religion by any stretch of the imagination in Wisconsin, but like most folks, we do enjoy eating regularly! Good food is always, well appreciated.

The drink glasses are found from Red Lobster to Mac's, when they "gave" the Michael Jordan plastic ones away, which again, the customer pays a premium for in the end. They really are found in much more ordinary settings than the beach or theme parks. I have a number of useful items that were obtained at small bars, the liquor store, motels and so on ...

I don't think you are getting my point. If the customer is paying for the container, and you can add to the perceived value and your bottom line, and gain some advertising, then you come out ahead.

Advertising is generally expensive if you run the usual methods. I have never purchased a print ad that didn't promise at least two large write ups in return. I also send out press releases, even for small businesses like mobile BBQ stands. Advertising pays, if you do it right. You can also go broke if you do it wrong!

I pointed out that I was not advocating using pails, you could use anything that works and would be deemed of value in some fashion to the customer, but you would have to be creative and figure that one out for yourself. Most people round here would rather have something useful than a bag of throw aways. At least if you are using paper you have a renewable energy source.

Finding a bucket in the right size and reasonable enough to use would be difficult in the first place. Remember I said it was just an example. But, let me take this a step further. You are telling me that your customers would think you were daft if you had offered them, say, a galvanized bucket with a TODD'S Groovey BBQ logo sticker on it, proportioned to proper size of the product, that they could later use to feed the chickens, put some flowers in, store their wacky weed, or just some nails ?

Actually, who cares what they said about you being a Hippie and smoking wacky weed. They would still be talking about Todd's Groovey BBQ and how good it was. Some might just come in to get a look at you. Again, who cares, as long as they buy your product! That is part of the point. Look what that Wacky Todd's giving out at his BBQ Joint. Let's go there. I would also say this is a promotional type of an idea and not a full time way to package.

I like retro packaging. I like easy packaging. I like inexpensive packaging. I like paper packaging. I like packaging that works for me. I like packaging that makes a statement. You might say that it makes no difference what I put my food in, just as long as it is GOOD, but I disagree. Every detail, from the look of your place, to what the server looks like, to what the package they take home looks like makes an impression. People judge by looks. Take Hippies, you judge them by their cover.

My post was meant to encourage people to be creative, think about your patronage, look for options, and be aware of what can work for the business. I may not run with the Big Dogs, but that doesn't keep me on the porch.

My fish and chip cones were as close to free as you can get, but they were also charming. You miss the point if you think I am endorsing putting ribs in a pail. I am suggesting that there are viable options to expensive packaging. Being creative and innovative can be cost saving as well as unique, charming or an advertising coo. You can follow the crowd or blaze your own trail.

Also posted with the utmost respect for your opinion,
Kate

Good lines of thought folks.

Thanks for the input.

We use the Versatainer from Newspring that Rootman pointed out in his earlier post. They ARE snazzy and spendy.

In a society that has convinced itself it doesn't have time to cook [advertizing works!], and probably doesn't know how to cook anyway, conveniece, not money is where it's at.

And because selling pulled-pork in a vacuum sealed bag is illegal, we went with them. The ones we use hold enough for 6 sandwiches. The larger size didn't sell as well.

Just slap on a label, with weight and ingredients. The label also works as a tamper evident seal.

Good Luck! Roger

I should add to my above post that the pulled-pork we sell is frozen and sold in the Versatainers to take home and microwave.

Roger

Hi.

I meant to go look at those and now I have. They look sharp, are reusable, and are dishwasher safe. Some very nice points. I like the fact that they are not just throw away! Thanks for reminding me to look at those. How "spendy" are they Roger?

Kate

Hi Roger,

Please expand on the food safety law re selling stuff in vacuum sealed bags. What items are and are not allowed?

I get my Versatainers from a start-up friendy business: www.instawares.com

I buy the NC868-B 28 oz which holds 1 lb Pulled-Pork, which is easy to sell. The prices are listed.

Our Dept of Ag won't allow "further processed" meat packaged in limited oxygen.

Roger

Great a discussion with some real meat in it, even though it might not be Q.

Roger do you mean by further processed in limited oxygen, like cooked and vacuum packed?

Personally I like the paper ideas with coated stock, like butcher paper, but it seems we are looking at joints, concessions, and restaurants with a different genre and different requirements.

Here in the eco-squeek captial of the world we also have to look at recycle potential as part of our image. Foam won't cut it except in teriyaki. I know people who dish wash their cans so that they can recycle them. It has never made any sense to me why recycling is better than taking it home and reusing it to store buttons or something. The versatainers fit the bill and it would seem that once your house if full, you could recycle the polypropylene and/or give your real dishes to charity.

Thanks for the tips everyone,

Jerry

Jerry, Without digging into my filing cabinet and looking up the exact reason for not vacuum packing further processed [pulled pork] meat, I remember they are concerned about BOTULISM. It has to be brined, or processed via HACCP II. Again, I'm not sure if that's the correct reason without digging deeper.

I see the Versatainers took a jump in price. Last year they were around $.30 now they are $.43 plus shipping.

Good Luck! Roger

Roger,

That makes sense, botulism is an anaerobic bacteria, which should be able to make it in the typical vacuum system. However, if they grew they would produce gas which would begin to pressurize the bag making it look as if the seal was broken when it was just the little critters doing their thing.

I was thinking about cured meats, like salmon and jerky etc. which properly done should take care of the botulism problem as you discussion of pulled pork points out. You can't count on a microwave reheater, to even have a botulism thought in their mind.

I would have to look at my files also, but that freezing part of the process might be a good step in any packaging to retail scheme, except for consumption on premises and direct take out. I know a supermarket and a meat market that freeze all their sausage, partially, maybe solely, for that reason.

Jerry

Well,
I use paper wraps, foil wraps, paper boats, paper bags, paper plates....
I'm going with paper.

Ever get a paper bag fulla shrimp and fries? That's classic, to me. I've been thinking lately about a roll of butcher paper for most everything; sealed with a small sticker with my logo on it.

Those versatainer thingys are fugly. Even for something as difficult to package as a big platter of ribs and fries, they just don't seem right.

In fact, the more I think about a big mound of fries, with a rack o' ribs on top of 'em, all wrapped up in butcher paper....yep. That just seems right. Container and plate all in one, easily disposed of ...I mean recycled...Yep. That's it. Butcher paper it is.

Chris,

My thoughts exactly, especially for a Q joint. And them hardy individualists could even use it for a napkin, unless you would like to include a plain paper towel. Utilitarian, cheap, just plain good cents. I wonder if that is why they call it butcher paper?

Jerry

Hi, me again,

I like the butcher paper too, but, what are you going to do with the cole slaw and beans, if in fact you are planning to serve them?

There was a time in the old south that take out joints used shoe boxes to pack their BBQ in, at least that is what I hear. This is not an answer for me, as I have no vast supply of shoe boxes to draw from. But, I do believe that there is a restaurant that does carryout using the idea. Odd as it sounds, I have some theories here.

Just for throwing out ideas, even ones I am not fond of, here are some packaging ideas for anyone looking:

Pactiv has a unit called "SmartTote" It is foam. It is close to 11 1/2 x 8 x 5 . Lays flat until folded into use. It has a handle and is stackable. Comes in black and white and costs about .27 cents each. It is not my ideal solution, but it is one of the nicer foam packs around, even though it does not have compartments for sides. Just an FYI.

Arvco makes a cardboard box that is just for racks/slabs of ribs.

Pactiv also makes a paperboard box with a look in window, that is of good size and pretty sturdy. It is microwavable too. It can withstand gravy or dressing, so they say. Looks nice. They call it "OutPak". It is shiny black. I don't have a price, yet.

As for me, I am still on the paper trail. I am also toying with a heavy old fashioned 3 compartment paper plate, a paper wrap and string like a bakery uses to keep it bound and carry it. Just thinking about things right now. I have a few other ideas too.

On the towel thing, I happened to be at a restaurant auction and picked up a case of wet wipes, individuals. I think I paid a dollar or two for the case. Not sure I would have them all the time but for the price I paid, not bad.

Kate

My 2 cents:

vac sealing- In my state you have to have a special license to vac seal foods. The threat of bacteria is very serious in any package that has had the oxygen taken out. You might be able to get around it if you freeze the food right away, but its not worth the fine you could get or making someone sick.

I buy several differnt types of food trays from www.hubert.com some are oven/ heat table proof. I don't know how thier price compares to the other ones mentioned in the earlier posts.

I like to serve most of my food on paper boats with plastic sauce cups for beans, slaw ,etc.

When I do a catering job I still use paper plates but I have a hard time finding ones that are strong enough, anyone have any ideas on stronger plates?

I have been looking at dissposable aluminum pans/ trays for carry-out. you can get them with a foil covered cardboard lid that you can easily slap a sticker on.

cool curtain was recommended to us by Joe Oaster at the NBBQA seminar on packaging for styrofoam boxes that you can place a standard size aluminum pan into. He, as I remember, charged people a price for the container then, if they returned, refilled with another aluminum pan as long as their styrofoam container was still in good condition.
Peggy

I just can't picture wrapping everything in butcher paper, then newspaper, and tying it in an efficient way. Then sliding your sides in, how?
Peggy

Todd-

Paper plates for catering: We use Chinette brand.
Heavyweight paper plates; won't bend or get cut through. Nice looking too.

Silverware: For weddings we use the silver plastic. They look real! I can't remember the brand name. They are expensive at $.06/piece.

Good Luck! Roger

Peggy,
If you are meaning what I was talking about, then you have confused two different concepts. I used to use the butcher paper inside newspaper folded into cones, but for fish and chips. I was saying that I am thinking of trying a paper plate, which I would probably put sides in small lidded cups, but wrap the whole thing in a paper, maybe coated butcher or kraft, or something. No newspaper! My food will all be sold to take away. I can remember bakeries selling sweet rolls in this manner, binding the wrapped plate with string, north, south, east and west. It does work. I have tested it now. I'm still mulling over options though.

We are going to a food show on Sunday. Maybe we will see something interesting there!

Patrick has started on the trailer too. My biggest decision now is what color to pick for the roofing, red or green.

Kate

Hey Peggy-

Are you sure the name of that company was cool curtain? I search the internet for them, and only came up with the company that makes products for walk-in coolers and a few other things. Is this the same company, and I just missed the packaging? I have been looking for a container like you describe, so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt

Matt,
Sorry, I led you on a wild goose chase. The company I was thinking of is Polar Tech. www.polar-tech.com They have the styrofoam containers that the aluminum pans fit in. Joe said he put a label on the container with his logo and the message "Take care of it, it's reusable." He would charge the customer $6.00 for the container and if they brought it back, he'd refill with another aluminum pan. The phone number for the company is 800-423-2749.
Peggy

You can visit Joe's website, www.porkysplacebbq.com for some neat ideas as well.
Peggy

Well,
Beans and coleslaw go in cups. Paper works best, I think, because you can nuke it later.

Hey Peggy-

Thanks for the info. I'll check out that website.

Matt