Cure confusion, need help!

Hi Todd... I've been through a similar search and found a variety of methods as well. To me, that's part of the fun! There really is no single answer to making bacon. Pick a method and try it...

I saw the Alton Brown episode as well. I'd be a little concerend about his method with out a cure of some sort. The meat is going to be in the "danger zone" for a long time during the cold smoke, and I'd feel more comfortable with a cure to help kill the bacteria and other little buggers. Maybe someone with more experience will chime in.

One of the eaqsiest ways I've seen to make bacon is to use the Buckboard Bacon seasoning kit from Hi Mountain...

http://www.himtnjerky.com

MainelyDave has used this and has documented it for us on his web site...

http://www.lamaine.com/bbq/

I currently have a boneless pork loin in the basement 'fridge curing for canadian bacon. I decided to use the recipe on the Morton web site...

http://www.mortonsalt.com/recipes/recipeex.asp?recipeid=117

Its basically TQ and brown sugar. Once its cured (next weekend), I'm going to smoke it using directions that I found on the forums here.

...ron

Okay. I thought that there might be more interest, but I guess not.

Thanks Ron for your input. I was a little concerned about Alton's 6 hours of cold smoke without a cure also, but he did use a lot of salt, and I haven't heard where anyone has died, yet. Maybe the nitrate/trites aren't absolutely necessary. I'll use the TQ first, and then try it W/O to see how it works. I think I'd rather not have the ham color, but I won't really know until I try it I guess.

I picked up some more TQ and brown sugar today, along with a large rib loin so I'm giving your(Morton's) method a try. I also got some chocolate chip cookies and milk, and that experiment is already over and it went GREAT!, so I'm excited about the bacon too.

I'm also going to try "corning" some beef I bought. That should be interesting too.

Thanks for your help.

Milk and cookies sound great! What kind of wood did you use to smoke the cookies?

I picked up a brisket at Sam's this afternoon and I am going to corn it also. My last one came out great!

Sounds like a good way to ruin a brisket...

Look at www.himtnjerky.com for bacon cure. You can turn a butt into the best bacon ever lickity split.

Hi Hippie,

I take it you don't like corned beef?

I was going to order some of the Hi Mtn. bacon cure, but a friend of mine that had another brand said he thought his was nothing more than TQ, brown sugar, and coarse black pepper. I just didn't want to order something I could make myself. What do you think? Am I way off target on the ingredients or is it worth the order from HiMtn?

Also, do you suggest butt's over loin? Thanks.

Ah, bacon...I don't know but summer just doesn't hit me as bacon season, probably why you're not getting too much response.

My thoughts.

Saw the "scrap iron chef" episode recently and I have to agree. He says he doesn't want the temp above 80 degrees and there is no cure in the bacon and I'm sorry Mr. B, but that's the danger zone and I don't make anything in that range without something to help us average people keep us from killing ourselves.

Brisket cured = corned beef then smoked = pastrami

Butts cured are call Buckboard bacon

Loins cured are called back bacon or canadian bacon

The times vary because the methods and the actual cure will vary.

I haven't used the HM cure in years, so I'm not sure what's in the bacon cure, but the problem you have is proportions. Not enough TQ and the danger is there and the effect can be achieved, just takes longer. The longer cures are usually because the amount of cure is smaller and takes longer.

Thank you Smokin. But summer is also tomato season, and while I have a brown thumb, I decided to try and grow a few tomato plants this year. I'm getting ahead of myself, but I want to be ready with the "B" part of BLT if they actually survive my TLC.

I love those big, ugly, juicy heirloom tomatos, but can't see paying $3.99 EACH for them in the store like last year.

Okay, I went to BJ's and grabbed a couple of butts. After careful scrutiny of all the info I could find, I got the impression that the extra fat in the butt would help to produce a more "bacon" like experience. I'll stuff the loin with asparagus stuffing and blue cheese then grill it. I can live with that.

My plan is to debone the butt, and cure for 14 days'ish using 1 part TQ to 1.5 parts brown sugar. Then soak for 2-3 hours in water, roll in coarse black pepper, dry for a couple of hours, then smoke with apple until internal reaches 140*. I'm looking for a product like this beautiful bacon seen here from a post in 2002:



This is not the 1:1 ratio of TQ and sugar some people use, but it is a lot more than others use, so I felt I was within the envelope of safety. Since I'm willing to cure for 2 weeks, I felt this would be enough and might also cut down on the saltiness some people have mentioned.

All those in favor of this plan, remain silent. All those opposed on the grounds I'm about to kill myself, please speak up and do so quickly. These things are going in the cure tomorrow afternoon. Thanks again for the input.

Bacon... Its not just for breakfast anymore! Its always bacon seaason!

Todd... I think I used a similar ratio on my canadian bacon. Its been a week and its starting to look bacon-like. The ratio isn't really important, just make sure you have enough TQ. The package has recommended amounts for thicker cuts, which a butt would certianly be.

Do a search on "buckboard bacon" if you're making bacon out of a butt. Quite a few good posts.

Here's one:

Buckboard bacon

Thank you Smokin. The link you suggested was the one that steered me in the direction of a butt instead of a loin yesterday.

Once I added buckboard to my search term a few days ago, I got 51 hits, verses the 9 I had gotten just looking for bacon. Lots of good information. I didn't mean to open a can of worms that had already been explored throughly a couple of years ago, but I'm hopeful my BLT's will be world class this year thanks to everyone's help.

No worries, that's the problem with searching, you need to have the right words. That's why I listed some different options.

Hope the new hits help.

Smokin'

Okay, took butts out of cure last night(11 days), rinsed very, very well, let dry with fan blowing until pellicle formed, and they're in the smoker now with apple.

I did not soak for 2-3 hours as planned based on advice from poster on the Ames board. I'm a little concerned that I might have been misled, but we'll see. Maybe I'm too impatient to make bacon? That's my only excuse for not soaking. I guess I'll know in a few hours.

But I will tell you one thing; if you sit down and read all the posts about bacon in a short period of time, you will see that the directions as far as amount and proportions of curing mixture are all over the place. Ranging from 1 part TQ/6 part sugar all the way down to 2 parts TQ/1 part sugar. This is a giant difference. There has got to be a "right" way based on some measure of safety. I can deal with the differences in suggested cure times, because they are fairly small. Same for different final temps(125*-155*) suggested. But too much TQ and you get waste, and too little, and you get sick, and more waste. There has got to be a universally accepted "correct" method.

Okay. Pulled them out at 140*. This is how they look sitting there cooling.



I had to cut one and taste it. The small piece I tasted was all bark, so to speak, and hopefully was saltier than a real slice will be, but even it did not seem too salty. Worse case, sliced thin on a sandwich it will just eliminate the need for additional salt and pepper. I think maybe I got lucky this time, but I will soak in the future. Here's how it looked inside. This piece was a little fattier than the others. I'm going to let it rest for a couple of days before I slice it and try it for real. All in all, with the exception of possibly being a little too salty, the flavor was excellent. I can't comment about it being "hammy" or not since I haven't fried it yet, but the smoke/sweetness flavor element was very good. Thank you all for your help.

Looks great, Todd! My Canadian Bacon experiment was mixed. Like you, I was a bit confused by the variations in cooking temps on the forum. One of the last posts I read talked about cooking to 160 degrees internal temp, and that is what I decided to do. The Canadian Bacon that resulted tastes great, but is a little on the dry side. The next time, I'm going to stop at 140 degrees.

I tried it, and it is good. Co-workers liked it a lot. Very slightly too much salt for me, so I'll soak next time as planned, but saltiness within the range of acceptability. Perfect for sandwiches and fine if you're eating it with something else too. Sounds crazy, but maybe I'll try it with eggs. Hmmmmm......

Smells great, and I wouldn't describe it as "hammy" at all, but it is different than bacon, if for no other reason than it has much more meat on it. Good stuff. I learned a lot, so if I get a handle on the salt, I'll be makin' bacon all summer. Apple wood and brown sugar worked well together.

Hi folks...I've been pretty inactive on the Forum as a result of a little "bump" in the highway of life (aka stroke), but trying to replicate/duplicate Canadian Bacon has been a passion of mine for years, with no success. Like Todd, I thought that there would be more interest in the subject and, in the past, I made a couple of posts with pictures of my attempts but what I have read here is a misunderstanding of what Canadian Bacon is! It's not made out of butts, shoulders,briskets, Etc, it's made out of baby pork loins (I think). If you want regular bacon like you can buy at any grocery store then go for the butts w/ HM cure...but you are not going to end up with Canadian Bacon. That stuff that Hormel sells in your local store is so far from Canadian Bacon. Someone else recently posted in a thread about the St. Lawrence Market in Toronto, Ontario....now there you will find the real deal! But you will also find it in the local grocery stores in Eastern Canada so if you know someone heading that way, get them to buy you some and try to work backwards (cure, spices,smoke, Etc.) I'm convinced that cold smoking for at least 6 hours is the key...I don't know, I'm still working on it. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. In our catering business we are now serving my futile attempts at Canadian Bacon as a breakfast meat and the movie crews that we serve think it's incredible. I tell them it's ham, I wouldn't disparage Canadian Bacon by calling it anything else! It's good but it ain't Canadian Bacon.
Oh, by the way Russ, If you ever experience the smell of bacon after crawling out of your tent at sunrise in July, 8000" altitude in the Rockie Mtns, 40 degrees ambient temp., and getting ready to fish for trophy rainbow trout...well, your assesment of bacon season would change..I promise you.
CB
P.S. One of the happiest days in my life was looking at the skyline of Toronto in my rear view mirror 40 years ago when I moved to the USA

CB,

Wondered where you've been. Glad to have you back!

Hello Chateaubeyond. I'm sorry about your stroke. That's a rough thing to deal with. I hope your recovery goes well.

I wanted regular bacon, but realized that I was going down the road to Canadian bacon with the pork loin I originally bought. The buckboard bacon I ended up with is very "bacon like" except that it is much leaner. I'm pretty happy with it. Canadian bacon is next on my to do list. Here you see my bacon put to good use with home made ciabatta bread, home made mayo, some really nice heirloom tomatoes, and of course the bacon.

I would rather use whole leaf lettuce, right off the head. Where do you get 'heirloom' tomatoes in April?

Harris Teeter had the tomatoes much to my surprise. I assume they are imported or greenhouse, but they were ripe and about half the price they were last summer @ $1.99#.

They were labled "Ugly and Ripe". Much better than the perfect pretty round tomatoes.

I suddenly have the craving for a BLT Looks fabulous!!!

Chateaubeyond, so sorry to hear of your medical problems. I pray for a quick and complete recovery. Sounds like you are well on you way! A lesson for us all, life is way too short. Live it to the fullest. Don't fret the little stuff. Not enough time to mess with it.

Take care & God bless!

quote:

Originally posted by chateaubeyond:
[qb] If you ever experience the smell of bacon after crawling out of your tent at sunrise in July, 8000" altitude in the Rockie Mtns, 40 degrees ambient temp., and getting ready to fish for trophy rainbow trout...well, your assesment of bacon season would change..I promise you. [/qb]

What???

Dennis...what part didn't you understand? I assume that the -UT indicates Utah...If so, and you are an "outdoor" kind of a guy, you would know what I'm talking about. If not, I couldn't possibly explain the experience. Sorry for the confusion.
CB

I've made a couple of batches of butt or buck board bacon, dry cured with Morton's sugar cure. Also a pork loin, but I haven't sampled it yet I have been out of town. When I to do the butt again I would get bone in and carefully carve out the bone myself, and just use the skin side in bacon, and cook the other side for pulled pork.

Alton said in this episode that he would rather dry cure his bacon, "but that is for another episode." Dry cure works for me and you don't get as much shrinkage in cooking. I cold smoke in my CS Smokette and keep it under refigeration at all times. I will never go back to store bought again. Real pork bellies here are about $3 a pound, so the way I look at it, using butt bacon I get the Q for free.

Jerry

All personal feelings about my bacon aside, Thursday night I had about 15-16# of bacon. Monday morning, after a Friday night cookout, and 2 birthday parties/cookout things over the weekend, I have about 1# remaining. Somebody must like it so I'm making more already.

You guys talked me into, after rolling out of the rack a sea level in urban Seattle, I decided I needed a little extra kick to start off the day, so I tried my loin bacon. It didn't taste like chicken (a good thing) but I think it would work very well at 8000 ft in the Rocky mountains. Not the fat of regular bacon, but it didn't taste hammy either, My Canadian bacon has to do with pizza, but it didn't taste like that either. Since it is made of one muscle it slices great. Two cold smokes with apple chips in my 050 was just right. I think I have a personal winner.

Jerry

Beyond,

Where in Utah are you? I imagine I'm like many others here--I'm really interested in making some of the varieties of bacon discussed here, but it's one of those "big steps". I'd like to try it though.

I fried up some bacon at 17,200' once. And I also fish for trophy trout all over the west, which is why I'm wondering where you're catching trophy 'bows at 8000'. And I still have no idea what you were alluding to.

Here's a 25 pound 'bow.

Nice fish, Dennis! I love the colors... My biggest steelhead came out of Lake Michigan a few years back and was 23 lbs. My biggest stream 'bow was 24" (probably 4 lbs) at Dogwood Canyon in Missouri.

Now I NEED to go fishing...

Hey Dennis...sorry to take so long to respond but I've had some other issues to deal with and have had to limit my Forum time. First of all, that is a beautiful male steelhead and judging from the backdrop in your photo and the equipment (downriggers, etc.) you didn't catch that brute in a freshwater stream. The only place that I know of that you have a chance to land a rainbow that size on a river is in Alaska...eg. the Lake Illiamna drainige, Copper River, Newhalen River etc. I made myself a promise when I first started flyfishing in the 'sixties that if I ever caught a trout over 30 inches it was going on the wall! Untill that happened it was catch & release for me, and still is. Alaska was very, very kind to me, giving up four freshwater/stream 'bow's over 30 inches. Damn, I miss that time. Now, to answere your questions, I live in SLC, transplanted from Montana, and like you I've fished all over the West (Madison, Big Hole, Yellowstone,Bitterroots, Deschutes (or.) Hot Creek (ca.)to name a few). The Green River here in Utah gave me the largest Brown Trout(27") of my life two summers ago. Anyway, the term "trophy" is a relative/subjective term...it depends on the body of water that you're fishing. Of course you are not going to catch fish in a mountain stream like the one you're holding, but if it's the biggest fish in the stream you are fishing, well, it's a trophy! Especially if you released the fish...nobody can call you a liar. As for the altitude question, thats where we like camp (no neighbors) and I don't mind driving downhill for a 1/2 hour to go fishing. The final question of what I was alluding to was a good natured poke at SmokinOakie where he refers to bacon not being a summer thing...see the top of this thread and come down seven posts

That's no steelhead--it's a true freshwater lake rainbow. And within a day's drive from home (though not in Utah). Steelhead are much longer and bullet shaped.

Let's take this offline. I'd like to chat with you some more. I'll drop you an email.

quote:

Originally posted by Dennis-UT:
[qb] That's no steelhead--it's a true freshwater lake rainbow. And within a day's drive from home (though not in Utah). Steelhead are much longer and bullet shaped.

Let's take this offline. I'd like to chat with you some more. I'll drop you an email. [/qb]

The shape looked like a 'bow, but the land in the background looked like the washington coast... I was confoozed...