FEC 100 Temperature Fluctuation

How old is the unit? They will swing when new but after a few hours running, they usually settle down easily..

I would run it up to 275 and then back it down to 224 and cool it down by opening up the door until it reads about 250 then close the door and let it cook.

Obviously you need something absorbing the heat in the cooker. i.e. meat or a pan of water if you are just testing.

this is all assuming pellets and auger and hopper are all ok.

David's first question is most important. Is your unit an older pre-ramp FEC 100 or and IQ4 FEC 100? Plus, another question is where are you placing the smoker probe from the ET-732 inside the smoker for monitoring the temp?

One year old with replacement SS firepot & lots of use. It has always jumped around. I thought it might be the Maverick so I added the iGrill. Both showed fluctuations throughout the cook but the iGrill showed more change probably due to updating every minute.

Bill @ Cookshack suggested I switch the control board from a FE46 to a FE67. Is that the one that increases pellet consumption?

Your oven in your house will swing all over the place. I used to really worry about it until I stoker logged it. The oven temp looked like an EKG but the probe in the meat showed a continual steady rise. So in the end. The meat is coming up on an even keep regardless of the swings.

If I can fins some pics then I'll post to show.

That's interesting David. I always thought our oven's temperature would swing as it cycled on and off to maintain our requested temperature. To verify, I had always planned to monitor the oven temp with a remote therm system. You seem to have saved me the effort. Thanks.

The oven shows one temperature once it gets to set temp while the Cookshack shows actual temp all the time. Cookshack is showing us what's going on while our ovens make us feel good while also cycling through temp swings. While I don't own one, it would seem the FE would have larger temp swings working mechanically with pellets and fire vs the gas or electric in our ovens. Small price to pay for nice smoked flavored results.

Kinda the opposite. FEC's are better insulated that home ovens and hold temps better.

I know folks get tired of hearing this...but the length and quality of the pellet matters on temp swings. If you don't believe it, just break up some of your normal pellets and try them for yourselves. It doesn't have to be a poor brand to make the change, just small pieces.

I just hate it when I get a bag that looks like it is the last of the batch the manufacturer made.

Here is a picture of a Stoker shot that shows the swings yet the steady and gradual rise of the temp of the meat.



This is an actual contest cook at the Sam's Club Local this spring. We were 6th overall with 30 teams on this cook with calls in chicken and pork.



You will see the rise arounf 5am and that was a 194 to 250 stage change and the big jumps at the right were door openings and such. The small jump in the meat one around 7 was from pulling meat to foil, then re-inserting probe and back on smoker. Its hidden by the drop in oven temp at the same time. But this pretty much tells the tale.

Hope this helps to get a visual look at what is going on in the cooking chamber as opposed to what the probe is reporting.

Really neat to see all of this.

However the question that should be answered is that does your 100 cook super Q.

Sense mine does, my try not to look at the fluctuations . I know there is a spike at the start. Always seems to settle.

John

David. Thanks. Nice to see what we figure was happening. If you still have Stoker of your oven, I think that would be very enlightening given the oven temp gauge shows a very consistent temp.

Joe thats we saw on ours. 80 to 100 degree swings. they shipped us the IQ4 and it made little change that we could see when we graphed.

quote:

Originally posted by Joe M:
I have noticed pretty wide swings in the cook temp of my FEC using a Maverick ET-732. I bought an iGrill to use for comparison. The iGrill will graph the temperature every minute of the cook. I am always pleased with the end result but wondered what others have experienced. I use Cookshack Hickory Pellets. With 4-8# Butts @224 the range fluctuated between 208 and 279 degrees over an 18 hour cook to final meat temp of 200. I kept the door closed the entire smoke. What's your experience? Is this normal? Thanks.

If the food out of your oven is so great why own a smoker? Graph an industrial oven or pastry oven and you will see a different story. You are compairing a $3,500 ducted oven (FEC) compaired to no-ducted $600 electric home oven.

quote:

Originally posted by David Qualls:
Here is a picture of a Stoker shot that shows the swings yet the steady and gradual rise of the temp of the meat.



This is an actual contest cook at the Sam's Club Local this spring. We were 6th overall with 30 teams on this cook with calls in chicken and pork.



You will see the rise arounf 5am and that was a 194 to 250 stage change and the big jumps at the right were door openings and such. The small jump in the meat one around 7 was from pulling meat to foil, then re-inserting probe and back on smoker. Its hidden by the drop in oven temp at the same time. But this pretty much tells the tale.

Hope this helps to get a visual look at what is going on in the cooking chamber as opposed to what the probe is reporting.

SP - I think you might have missed the point .... the point was all ovens/smokers swing... and for the most part it does not affect the product. I had to quit watching the swings on my stoker because it stressed me out... all in all, it doesn't really make a difference. I look at average temp now. PLUS with any smoker there are hot spots and cool spots and places that "swing" more than others.

I believe both of the pics david included are on his FEC100... to demonstrate the constant steady rise of meat temp despite swings.

Here is a link to The Virtual Weber Bulitin Board which shows a kitchen oven on the stoker...

Stoker on an Oven

This is the stoker monitoring an oven (not a smoker)

Thanks Nordy. Always knew ovens had to swing...what with the way thermostats work...on...or...off. Much like our house heaters and air conditioning. Set the air to 78*, and sometimes it feels warmer than others depending on the A/C cycling on or off. Always wondered why ovens showed the constant temp...maybe those manufacturers are just saving themselves a lot of inquiries.

I would disagree on both points.

My point is you have a $3,500 smoker with 100 degree, 70 in Joe's case, temp swings and he is being told dont worry about it ... it wont effect your food.

quote:

Originally posted by Nordy:
SP - I think you might have missed the point .... the point was all ovens/smokers swing... and for the most part it does not affect the product.

Respectfully. Just a few thoughts. And comparisons.

The oven above has 50* swings and doesn't have a mechanical mechanism to it. You feed pellets when the therm calls for it and the pellets mechanically drop into the firepit and must ignite. Once the therm says stop, you still have the flames burning for a period before they start to diminish. A gas burner immediately goes on or off quickly adjusting the oven's temp...and you still have 50* swings.

While very similar we're not really comparing exactly the same thing. There is a price we pay to get the smoke flavoring...both in terms of method and sticker. Also, there is an oven in every home, condo, and apartment in America. If Cookshack could get its current market share of that type of volume, smoker prices would come down.

Why do we keep compairing against a home oven?
"Your oven has temp swings so your smoker will too"
When did the home oven become the gold standard for temp regulation.
Its an excuse for a flawed smoker .. or its electronics.

I apologise for not having a current graph on this computer but here's one I do have .... lets compare to it.

Hey Doug,

What does the graph look like on your Yoder pellet grill? Thanks in advance.

Agree it is somewhat apples and oranges, however the point is... we don't think about an oven "temp swinging" because we never "see" it swing. It still cooks well.

We as BBQ cooks monitor pits... and so we see swings... does that affect the product... who knows. Honestly it MAY MAKE THE PRODUCT BETTER. There is a theory out there that swings produce a fluctuation in fire which helps produce smoke. I'm not ready to concede that "no temp swings" is "better."

I would love to see a side by side comparison on a FEC with no swings vs one with swings cooking a similar product to see if the results taste or cook differently.

NOW... Is 100 degree or 70 degree swings too much... I agree... probably is. (But you do see 100 degree variance in the home oven and n think twice about that...) Davids pics do not show 100 degree swings... more like 30-40... that seems acceptable to me. but... to each their own...

Certainly an interesting topic to discuss, however until there is a side by side comparison... who knows the answer... (and taste testers in that comparison may differ too!)

Joe - are you getting the new software? It will be interesting to see the results. Keep us posted.

I dont have any of the graphs here on work computer but it does float about 15 degrees with an odd 25 degree spike that I am working on.

quote:

Originally posted by cal:
Hey Doug,

What does the graph look like on your Yoder pellet grill? Thanks in advance.

Thanks Doug,

Pellet grills/smokers,IMHO, will need some variation to get smoke flavor. I know with my PG500 I try to get about 30-35* in order to get the best smoke profile. I do ribs on it.

I would think the 70-100* variation would be of some concern to me,not so much in sense of the meat cooking properly, but rather the worries of it causing flame outs during the night when I'm not monitoring the pit.

Hopefully the new program will work for Joe, I know my pit runs on the FE46 program and I haven't had any problems, but then again, I've never monitored it with a stoker, oh well.

A lot to respond to so excuse me if I miss something.
Again why the oven reference? I agree a home oven has temp swings. We disagree in how well they cook. I think the rise in convection ovens is a testament to that.

"may make the product better" not sure what to say here. Are you infering that cookshack did this intentionally?

My FEC100 had 100 degree swings, the new controler has moved that down some but I am talking maybe 10 degrees. The problem with mine is it never cook the same. Dave's graph may show 40 degrees but the original post that is having problems is 70.

Side by side comparison ... I think the big trend away from FEC's is what Im looking at.

Nordy I hope I have not been disrespectful in my responses its not the entention but I strongly disagree with the idea that these things are working OK and its just perception.

quote:

Originally posted by Nordy:
Agree it is somewhat apples and oranges, however the point is... we don't think about an oven "temp swinging" because we never "see" it swing. It still cooks well.

We as BBQ cooks monitor pits... and so we see swings... does that affect the product... who knows. Honestly it MAY MAKE THE PRODUCT BETTER. There is a theory out there that swings produce a fluctuation in fire which helps produce smoke. I'm not ready to concede that "no temp swings" is "better."

I would love to see a side by side comparison on a FEC with no swings vs one with swings cooking a similar product to see if the results taste or cook differently.

NOW... Is 100 degree or 70 degree swings too much... I agree... probably is. (But you do see 100 degree variance in the home oven and n think twice about that...) Davids pics do not show 100 degree swings... more like 30-40... that seems acceptable to me. but... to each their own...

Certainly an interesting topic to discuss, however until there is a side by side comparison... who knows the answer... (and taste testers in that comparison may differ too!)

Joe - are you getting the new software? It will be interesting to see the results. Keep us posted.

[QUOTE]"may make the product better" not sure what to say here. Are you infering that cookshack did this intentionally?

Maybe... 70-100 degree swings, no... but like Cal was saying I think some swing does help pellet pits produce better smoke. I'll ask Eddy or Stuart next time I see them and let you know

My FEC100 had 100 degree swings, the new controler has moved that down some but I am talking maybe 10 degrees. The problem with mine is it never cook the same.

Sounds like you may have a pit with a problem and need to talk to Cookshack. The FECs I have cooked on have all been pretty consistent in the product they put out, but have also not had the huge swings you are experiencing

Side by side comparison ... I think the big trend away from FEC's is what Im looking at.

Big trend away from FECs... I have no data to confirm or refute that, however FEC competition cooks are winning every weekend. I have had all four contest meats off of a Jambo (everyone wants a Jambo...) and honestly, the flavor was not significantly different to me than what I can get off of my FEC. Cooking methods/procedures are different, yes, but end result was not particularly different. Just my opinion

Nordy I hope I have not been disrespectful in my responses its not the entention but I strongly disagree with the idea that these things are working OK and its just perception.

I hope I'm not being disrespectful either... I think this is an interesting discussion. I agree a 70-100 degree swing is not "Normal," however I think a 30-40 degree swing is not a big issue. I was obsessed with getting my PG1000 and FEC100 to have as little a swing as possible, and I didn't notice an improvement in product or performance of the pit. Mind you I haven't had swings to the degree you or the OP are speaking of. I do see a benefit especially on my PG1000 of having some swings for better smoke production as cal mentions earlier.

Im interested to see what happens with the OPs pit when the new software is installed.

CRAP... bold was not to "yell" or anything... just a response to the quoted, non bolded portion... sorry

Nature of thermostats produces temperature swings. It's either on or off. Even your smoker graph shows drops of 40-45*. I would agree that 100* is extreme.

quote:

Originally posted by Smokers Purgatory:
If the food out of your oven is so great why own a smoker? Graph an industrial oven or pastry oven and you will see a different story. You are compairing a $3,500 ducted oven (FEC) compaired to no-ducted $600 electric home oven.


Another Quote, Why do we keep compairing against a home oven?
"Your oven has temp swings so your smoker will too"
When did the home oven become the gold standard for temp regulation.
Its an excuse for a flawed smoker .. or its electronics.
[QUOTE]

I didn't say that the food out of my oven was so great. Industrial ovens and pastry ovens are'nt pellet fired devices. and they have heat anticipators much like your home heat thermostat. so it can anticipate and instantly fire massive BTU's to maintain consistant tempratures. Pellet fired smokers must auger more fuel and then wait for the ignition to recover heat. Yes there is a lot of difference between a $600 home oven, a FEC and industrial ovens.

The camparison to home ovens is that more tons of meat are cooked every day in home ovens than Smokers and commercial/industrial ovens. and because they are $600 they lack the composition and design to maintain tight temprature tolerances. Yet....They produce tons of viable great quality food day in and day out.

If you will go back and look at older posts of mine I had the swing problem and when my cooker got broke in. (i.e. smoke on the walls and the insulation cured out from the heat) my swings stopped.

One more $100 question about massive swings is pellets. I can attest not all pellets are created equal... BBQ'r's are the best I have used second to Absolute Pellets and Cookshack pellets rank in my opinion right down to the bottom with traegar.
Are Joe's pellets fresh, are they dry, is there a lot of dust buildup in the bottom of the hopper is something restricting the flow of pellets where the cooker gets pellet surges causing the swing??

A lot of questions. the assumption that the fuel is good and consistent in compostion has a lot to do with temp swings that software and pit seasoning can't control.

I've cooked 15 competitions in the last 18 weeks so my FEC and I are pretty tight this year. I will say that I know what it is doing and what its not.

No disrespect, but if you don't like my response don't jump at me like I'm some poster boy for cookshack because I pay cash just like everyone else does for their equipment and I have 3 FC 100's. and my Oven at the house cost more than one FEC 100 and it swings worse than my fec but its a hell of an oven...

Now if you don't like Hank Williams............

All,

SP has tried to make a point because he's not been satisfied with the product, but I will say that's not been typical.

I will point out that many people never have that issue, I'll even say most.

BUT,

If you have a problem, call/contact CS. The folks in this thread can't "fix" the issue.

It's now Thursday, have you contacted CS? That's the quick solution, work with CS direct. But certainly come back and let us know if it was resolved to your satisfaction.

I think there are some difficulties trying to make the point in written text and the details above prove that point.

quote:

Originally posted by Nordy:
CRAP... bold was not to "yell" or anything... just a response to the quoted, non bolded portion... sorry

Thanks, I WAS going to give you a timeout... but no need

As long as the discussion are on topic trying to help resolve the issue, that would be great. If the topic deserves another thread, don't hijack, just start a new thread please.

That graph shows 40* drops only because the door or fire box is open. The notion that all smokers flucuate 30/40* is false.

quote:

Originally posted by Pags:
Nature of thermostats produces temperature swings. It's either on or off. Even your smoker graph shows drops of 40-45*. I would agree that 100* is extreme.

Noted. Thx. Yours certainly is consistant.

Dave please don’t take my comments as jumping on anyone … it’s because of my frustration and not anyone’s opinions. I have tried to be fair in my criticism (I dont flood the board with negative comments) and I have been more than fair with Cookshack in my patience.

It is difficult for me to watch others get the same advice/excuses that has put me into my predicament.

I appreciate the discussion and science/research. This all started because I got tired of flameouts caused by the cast iron firepot. I bought the remote monitor with alarm because I didn't want to wake up to find a cold smoker loaded with meat. The SS pot fixed the flameout. Since then I have used Cookshack, Fast Eddy, BBQ'rs Delight, Traeger($3 a bag!,couldn't resist), and CookingPellets. They all cause swings. I have NEVER been disappointed with the end product so I'm not complaining. My issue is that the HI & LO temp alarms keep going off despite widening the range. I will install the new board and report back.

My wife says: "I pay more attention to my smoker than I do her". My response: "It cooks better"!

The way to a man's heart.

quote:

Originally posted by Smokers Purgatory:
It is difficult for me to watch others get the same advice/excuses that has put me into my predicament.

????

Now you've got some flawed thinking. Because of the advice we're giving we put you in this situation.

I've always advised step one below.

The solution is simple.

1. Contact CS
2. Follow CS recommendations
3. If the problem is solved great.
4. If the problem is NOT solved to your satisfaction you can

a. Go back to step 1 or
b. Ask for a refund

4b is your best option SP. CS has been able to solve this problem with most people. I don't know why yours has an issue and I applaud you for trying to work hard and you HAVE been fair in your responses.

But at some point if you're not happy, just contact CS.

I will say I know of less than a handful of people that have returned the smoker.

My situation has been posted posted here as it went along but I understand how it could be lost it was three years ago.

The short story ...
From day 1 our FEC100, purchased new from KC BBQ store, has had large temp swings. I read several threads on this site about getting the smoker broke in, "Good and black inside" (I tend to think it is more of an algorithum/automated reasoning)So I gave it 6 or 8 months. Things did not improve ... they got worse.
I contacted Cookshack ... their response was I could send you a new fire pot but I dont think it will help. BUT we are working on new software, if you can wait .. I think it will fix your problem. Three months later I call them again. "We're still working on it. This goes on for a full year. So I said this is not working I would like to return the smoker. "No wait .. we'll send you a new controler" I tried that and it has helped very little. (I will admit I have only cooked with the new controler 5 or 6 times. So it may still be getting "broke in")
In retrospect when the unit did not work properly I should have returned it right then and there and let them take three years working out the problems. It is my own fault for listening to the same excuses that have been repeated year in and year out.

To answer your post, I have followed suggestions and I have asked to return the smoker.

Jokingly Okie .. I offered to trade you units awhile back. Care to take me up on that now that I have the new controler?

I understand it is simplistic to you and you see people that still like the units. My expeareance is different.

I have an '07 FE46. While I have not logged the temps, the readout temp is rarely off more than +/- 4 deg. after it stabilizes. I have also never had a flameout, never used an elbow or cap, and my lower door gasket is bad so I get some leakage.

What is surprising on David's graph is that the length of the swings is around 20 min. I always assumed that this was a PID control, but from the chart it almost has to be a high heat/low heat control. These heat levels might vary by temp setting, but it is really a bang-bang control like the oven. It looks like it goes to high heat at 20-25 deg. below set point and back to low heat at set point. There is some overshoot since you get a pretty good fire going at the high heat rate and this does not immediately die down when you drop back to low heat.

I would like to see a graph of one that is seeing 70 or 100 deg. swings. Is it seeing more drop, more overshoot, or both?. Also, sensor location is probably going to make a big difference when the high heat kicks in. You are going to heat up the deflector and drip pan and then it will take some time for the head to distribute. I would think that upper rack temps would react slower and lower rack temp quicker (you would see more overshoot on the lower racks), but I'm not sure.

I've had my FEC100 for about a month. The temperature during the first 3 or 4 cooks ran about 70º higher than I set it. By the fifth time around, there was a 25º difference. Since then it stays within 2 or 3 degrees of where I set it, unless I open the door.

In any case, it's truly a pleasure to work with. I have to believe there's an easy solution to any problem that might arise with it.