Smoke ring

Do you get a smoke ring on anything? What seasoning are you using? The water pan isn't a good idea.

I'm using bonesmokers rub. I do get some, although not alot, in butts and ribs.
My teamates out east use the same recipe and don't have a problem getting a smoke ring so I don't think it has anything to do with the rub. Note, they are using a FEC100 also...only difference is that its a pre-pellet ramp model....can't see where that would make a difference.

Are you wrapping in foil and if so how long?

no foil. Cook to 195 internal then into a cambro for several hours.

How much smoke ring are you getting?

i would say about 1/32".

Brad,

The smoke ring we get on a brisket has never been a big one. In fact, it tends to be on the narrower side. But that has not stopped our samples from doing well at contests here in the south. Try cooking on the smoke setting longer and then just boosting the temp higher to finish it off.

But in the words of Mr. Ed Roith, the smoke has nothing to do with the smoke ring. It is the interaction of the spices in the rub, the meat and the temps. Don't ask me if that is true or not.

I don't use the smoke setting -- set it on 250 and let it go. See the smoke ring in the photo posted under topic "which brisket?" The photo on the bottom was cooked on the FE, the top one was cooked on a stick burner. Both briskets were wrapped when 160 internal was reached.

I add smoke to the FE by putting a cup of 100% flavorwood pellets hanging over the fire pot. A chunk of Smoke Stix works really well for adding smoke too.

You might put some non-iodized salt on your brisket before you apply the rub too.

curious....what will the non-iodized salt do?

I maybe wrong, but I don't see where adding more smoke, thru a cup over the fire pot, will do anything more for me....i'm getting great amounts of smoke coming out of the smoker as it is. I think there is a force field around my brisket!
I hate to think that i have to go to something as drastic as tenderquick.

Brad,

Don't know about affecting the appearance scores. Think that's a theory some have, but as a judge, never judged one down for not having it. And appearance score in the end aren't your biggest points.

It has to do with Nitrates/Nitrites. There has to be enough in the air to cure the meat (after all the Sr is just "cured" brisket). In stick burners if you burn too hot/too fast, same problem.

Try adding a little more wood like Candy says. Reason is that her way, the wood is smoldering a little more, not burning. Creates more nitrates.

And I notice a difference based on model. Some of the ramp models tend to burn the wood a little "cleaner" because of the wood dropping into the first pot. In the auger models it actually starts smoldering before it gets fully into the fire pot, creates more nitrates.

quote:

Originally posted by Candy Sue:
I don't use the smoke setting -- set it on 250 and let it go. See the smoke ring in the photo posted under topic "which brisket?" The photo on the bottom was cooked on the FE, the top one was cooked on a stick burner. Both briskets were wrapped when 160 internal was reached.

I add smoke to the FE by putting a cup of 100% flavorwood pellets hanging over the fire pot. A chunk of Smoke Stix works really well for adding smoke too.

You might put some non-iodized salt on your brisket before you apply the rub too.

Hi, do you put the flavorwood pellets on the shield over the firepot - I'm trying to picture the cup of pellets hanging over the fire pot. Thanks.

As articles on this subject indicate, a smoke ring is a combination of nitrogen, oxygen, moisture, and myoglobin. the use of high temperature combustion to produce nitrogen dioxide along with the moisture and myoglobin will produce nitrous acid which creates the smoke ring.

The use of green wood will enhance the smoke ring as it produces more nitrogen dioxide and increases the moisture level. The same effect can be obtained by using propane and a water pan.

Some people use Mortons "Tender Quick Salt" which contains a very small amount of nitrite and nitrate which meet the FDA requirements as these products in concentration, are toxic. When used as a part of the salt content of rub, this will create the chemical reaction necessary to produce the "smoke ring" without the use of wood.

In conclusion, the smoke ring can be produced in an oven and has absolutely no indication of anything other than chemistry of the moment and time and will change tomorrow.

Just my 2 cents.

I believe that this is why KCBS does not use the "smoke ring" as an indicator when judging, it really has nothing to do with taste flavor, method used, etc.

Mack

I had the pleasure of cooking next to Brad last weekend and had a chance to sample his brisket. It had very little smoke ring and in general the meat was darker than the brisket I got off of my FE. He difinitely had a lot more smoke coming out of his stack than I did. Could it have something to do with the straight cherry blend? We both had the same environment but I had a smoke ring and Brad had very little. I am thinking it is the pellets and the rub making the difference.

Mark

We use the Mortons Tender Quick on our Brisket and ribs. we sprinkle in on the meat, let it sit 15 minutes then thoroughly wash it off. We then sprinkle on our rub and let it sit 1 hour before smoking begins. Our customers see the ring and assume we know what we are doing and do it well. It's all for show. When we haven't done it, customers say where is it? It does not alter the taste in any way.

David
www.marashomemade.com

Don't forget Brad just wants some help with improving his process. If he wants a SR, let's help him. I for one don't like the TQ method, but I've discussed that before in this forum.

Mark, which version to you have? Was it the ramp same as Brad or not? I'm thinking that's part of it.

quote:

Originally posted by davidsbest:
When we haven't done it, customers say where is it? It does not alter the taste in any way.

David
www.marashomemade.com

Well I can taste it, and I know others in comps that can taste it. Actually for those with experience it gives it a different red color than a natural ring.

but if your customers need it, you have to do it to sell to them.

Yes, KCBS doesn't allow judging, but I defy anyone to sit next to a non-certified judge who is one of David's customers and try to convince them not to "eat with their eyes". No it's not scorable, but I guarantee inexperienced judges forget that and they look for it. I know, because I've talked to them when I judge next to them and I get the "deer in the headlight look" when I remind them not to score it.

Brad,do you use any kind of marinade.

There are stories around that some marinades,because of their nature,oil,etc, that may inhibit smokering.

If so try cooking one with just rub?

There used to be a lot more bags of TQ setting around cooksites.

Like Smokin' says,you might trick an inexperienced judge with a TQ ring,but an experienced judge might just zing ya,when he spots it.

Russ,
I have a strait auger smoker compared to Brad's ramp model. I just got a ramp model and I have not cooked on it much. The older FE does not put out as much smoke and compared to Brad's it is hard to tell it is on.

I don't rub the meat till right before it hits the smoker. We do use a higher salt rub on our brisket. The meat goes in the smoker cold and we start with the smoker cold. I run at Smoke for 2 hours and then we go up to 225 for the rest of the cook.

Mark

Mack's definition of a smoke ring is about as concise as I've seen. Just one thought. I think the smokering has a bacon taste. I've cooked pork with no rub, and with a filleting knife cut sections of meat with and without ring. I think there is a difference.

Does this smoke ring issue happen when you just burn the blended pellets only?

Craig, it's only going to taste like bacon if hickory is the smoke of choice!

Tom, I do hang a SS 1 cup measuring cup right over the edge of the firepot. If you're cooking hot (300+) you can put a foil packet on the roof above the firepot. At lower temps, it's not hot enough to smoke.

This is a very interesting discussion.
To answer a few questions:
yes i use a marinade/injection....my teammate out east uses the same marinade and cooks on an non-ramp fec100. He doesn't have the same smoke ring problem.

I have tried using the the trager pellets the smoker came with as well as the fast eddy hickory pellets....same problem.

I would like to try taking the smoker to a lower altitude to see if i have the same problem. As Brickman told me last weekend, he gets less of a smokering in colorado then he did when he cooked in KC. Don't know if that has to do with the amount of oxygen or the amout of humidity. I did the Kookers Kare in KC this spring, but i didn't look at the smokering as we pulled the meat off the smoker. Guess i should have.

Has anyone else tasted the smoke ring without bark and can you describe how it tastes different than other parts of the meat? Is the bacon flavor I noticed a byproduct of hickory as Candy asserts (and I will not argue because I indeed used hickory on the cook in which I tasted the ring)?

Craig, I think that'll take somebody with experience as a descriptive wine reviewer! Personally, considering pork butt which I get beautiful color cooking on an FE. Yes, it tastes different than the grey internal meat. More smoky flavor, but mostly it looks better.

quote:

Originally posted by Meathead:
Has anyone else tasted the smoke ring without bark and can you describe how it tastes different than other parts of the meat?

It tastes like cured meat, which is exactly what it is. A similar taste to anything that's been cured, like bacon/ham/etc. I can guarantee you, that 999 out of 1000 people can not even taste it, since it's so small.

I ain't no smokering tastin' expert,but I have judged a few and hung out with folks that do nothing but judge.

I been tryin' to figure out when the last discussion ,around the table,was held on smokering taste.

I talked it over with several Master judges,and so far we are up to zero.

I am at a loss to understand how a difference can be tasted as it is the same EXACT chemical reaction that produces the smoke ring whether it be chemical from TQ or the same chemical from the combustion of wood! I for one am both an experienced competition cook, certified KCBS judge and a restaurant owner and I can't taste the difference and believe me, I have tried. I have a friend who can tell you every ingredient in a rub or dish but can not tell the difference in what produced the smoke ring.

I suspect the difference is over use of smoke (prevalent in Texas) and too much of the nitrite and nitrate.

Mack

I tried the tq thing untill one day I cut off a piece of the pink smoke ring and tasted it by itself. It was not to good to me, I would say it was kind of bitter but that was a couple of years ago. I think I can tell a difference in the smoke ring when the weather is very wet and rainy but I have never saved any dry day brisket to compare it to.

Well I've tested SR's back in the forums a few years ago.

Unfortunately a SR created by airborne particulates and one created by a salt won't taste the same. TQ is super saturated and it gives a different taste, not from the nitrates, but from the curing salts that carry it. That's what gives it a different taste.

Also, the color seems to be different to some, one from airborne vs one from TQ.

But HEY, they're not supposed to judge the SR.

But plenty of teams out there, in many comps have been using TQ. Gave a class a few years ago in Texas and the topic was discussed and privately more professed to using it than those that didn't. See they do judge the SR.

Wow, i've been doing competitions for 12 years now and have never heard or seen anybody using TQ. I never would have guessed that a TQ smokering was that previlent on the circuit.
I would think the rinsing TQ off the meat would be pretty obvious at a competition....do some teams simply put a little in their rubs (and not rinse)?

Great discussion. I was not happy with my smoke ring. A friend told me to wash the meat with vinegar before I hit it with rub. Do not know why but I get a good smoke ring. 4 hours on smoke and finish at 250 to +-195. Wrap at 165.
Bill
Go to my web site and click on you want to compete and click on first pic of brisket being prepped.
Billandthedixiechicksbbq.com

Or,it could have to do with the right timing to kick your extension cord loose,a couple times during the night.

I can't get your home phone to respond.

I just found your cell and I'll try tonight.

See ya at Charleston.

I have been following this thread and wondered if anyone has noticed if the olive oil, apple juice peanut butter or whatever that one puts on his meat affects the smoke ring. It kind of makes since to me that it might creat a barrier to the nitrites, smoke or whatever. I have used various things at various times but never really set up a comparision test.
So what did ya'll use between the meat and rub when you got the good or bad rings?

I wish I had taken some pictures of the twelve briskets I cooked this weekend. I had a very pronounced smokering. I use bbq'rs delight/heat resource Pecan and apple pellets. I believe I used just apple on these particular briskets. I cooked them on smoke for about 2 hours then cranked it up to 250. When the brisket reached between 160 and 170 I wrapped them in foil with some marinade. The briskets were injected.

Steve

We get good results using Candy's pecan and hickory, The smokering doesn't make good eating.
Peggy

the smokering is on the outside of the meat if it is there. Do you taste it? Some of you say that you can taste it. That would tell me that it is bad bbq, if I could taste a smoke ring.

We just got to cook what's right.
peggy.

Classic American barbecue has always produced a smokering. If, as Peggy suggests this is bad, then I guess the nation has been making bad barbecue for more than two centuries!

I have occasionally been able to taste it, and the flavor was bacony. It is the same chemical reaction that creates nitrates in bacon and hot dogs, so that is not surprising. So I think the smokering is desireable.