Testing foiled spare ribs vs. not foiled

I did just that on my last rib cook. Trimmed the Walmart spares (2 in one package) just like you said. Cut each rack in half and hung all 4 halves on rib hooks. Used CS rib rub first. Cooked for 3 hrs at 225 with 3 oz pecan wood. Pulled, wrapped in foil and added a bit of SBR BBQ sauce to one pack. Back in 008 at 225 for 2.5 hrs more. Removed and let sit for 30 min till dinnertime. Results were not quite falling off the bone, done end to end, and everyone liked them fine. One daughter doesnt like pork ribs...says it tastes greasy. She ate 1/2 a rack of these.

bob

Hey, I didn't get many responses to this posting, so thought I'd add a few comments to see if I can drum up some answers.

I think the main problem I've been having now that I've tried smoking my first spare ribs and baby back ribs, is that the thinner parts of the rib meat gets dried out.

Has anyone tried smoking both unfoiled and foiled ribs and noticed an improvement in the taste of the foiled ones? Are foiled ribs always way more moist than unfoiled ones, or is it one of those things where only experts could tell the difference? Is it a lot more difficult to mess up foiled ribs than unfoiled, since unfoiled would seemingly dry out a lot quicker?

And I'm always curious as to what the pros do. Do most restaurants foil their ribs?

Is there anyone who prefers injected ribs because you'd think the meat wouldn't dry out as much? The ones I smoked were from Sam's Club and were non-injected.

Hey, Studly-

Sorry to hear about your negative experience.

Six hours may have been a little bit much for the ribs. I have not felt it necessary to use a temperature probe when cooking ribs. Indeed, I am not sure where to reliably stick a probe in a rack of ribs.

I have not cooked any ribs ("baby backs" or St. Louis) over 4.5 hours (so far)on my CS, and they have always come out delicious. I try not to open the CS during the cook. And, I have not had to mess with foiling them. When I use my Big Green Egg (a charcoal fired smoker), I use a 3-1-1/2 method that icludes foiling them, but, that's another whole story!

At least, do not despair, or give up on your CS.

Sometimes, we make things to complicated, and end up with less than we expected, IMHO.

As for the pro side of things, I can offer some feedback. Most chain restaurants steam their ribs, then wrap individually, then finish to order on grill. This is true of pork and beef ribs alike. Restaurants that you might have tried that use this method include Chili's, Outback, Lonestar Steakhouse, Longhorn Steakhouse, etc. I have done menu development work for each of these companies at one time or another and their process all follows more or less the same path. In large roaster with wire rack in bottom, place entire case of membrane removed baby backs standing on edge. Pour in 1" hot water. Seal roaster with plastic wrap and foil, then bake in 300* oven for about 2.5 hours. When cool enough to handle, brush on honey, then wrap individual racks in plastic and hold for service. Some places season ribs before boiling with seasoned salt. Pork ribs are finished on grill with honey/sauce brushed on prior to serving, while beef ribs are usually either steamed or grilled to bring up to temp, then dipped in sauce before plating. I'm guessing(hoping) that some of the BBQ chains that are turning up do things in a more traditional manner, but who knows?

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Wow, Todd, that's interesting how the restaurants do their ribs. So those types of ribs would have no smoke taste, right? How would a place like Famous Dave's do their ribs ... since their's are quite smokey tasting?

My favorite ribs, because they are super tender and moist, come from a rib wholesaler in the Twin Cities (for anyone in Minnesota who wants to try them, it's called Greater American Rib Co. in Woodbury, near 494 and Valley Creek Road) that has a small, little-known retail meat counter. This place supplies lots of restaurants and casinos with higher-end precooked loin-back ribs that the restaurants heat and serve. They are awesome, as far as always being tender and moist and very meaty. They don't have much -- if any -- of a smoke flavor though, so maybe they are cooked in the same restaurant roaster process that you mentioned above, Todd. I never knew that place may have roasted and baked their ribs, though. Interesting!!

Steam roasting in this manner allows them to prep a very large quantity of ribs in a short time and in little space. It also tends to produce a very tender, almost flavorless rib, so you better plan on a good sauce. I have never heard of Famous Dave's, so I can't speak for them. I've also wondered about places like Tony Roma's and Jilly's Ribs. I don't know how they do their ribs. I do know that some restaurants add liquid smoke to their finishing sauce, or to the water in the pan. That might explain some of what you have tried. Darryl's(which was part of the Houlihan's group) added liquid smoke or strongly flavored smoke BBQ sauce to almost everything. Apparently most of the public dosen't know the difference.

Kash n Karry,Winn-Dixie,Foodlion all had dedicated steamers for the ribs.

There were a bunch of them for sale last year,when the stores started closing locations.

Bobby Que has a pretty reliable approach,as usual.

Studly,

I do mine about 5-6 hrs and have been pretty much perfect (for me) everytime.

I cut the racks in half, season and smoke @ 225, 5-6 hrs, i check to see ho wmuch bone is showing when the meat shrinks up, then i remove, throw on a bit of sauce and double wrap in foil and place in a cooler until it's time to eat, and this method has never failed me yet..

To answer your smokey flavor question. Liquid smoke is used quite frequently in restaurant applications. I will admit that when I am pressed for time I use it so that I can have something to serve my customers. I am not a Q joint so I don't stake my reputation on my Q but I can get a brisket done in 3-4 hours in the oven as opposed to 13-14 hours in the smoker. It is not as flavorful, tender and smokey but most of my customers don't really notice because they slather on the BBQ sauce. I can tell the difference though and besides it just feels like cheating.
Mark

Lot of things going on in this thread...

As for Studly, are you cooking on a Cookshack, and if so, what size? How many slabs are you cooking at one time? I have used the largest Cookshack, and I cook almost every day on a smaller one, and I find that the more meat you load (within reason), the more moist your final product will be. Makes sense, since the cooking meat will let off steam, and the CS holds in the moisture. If you're opening the door during the cooking cycle, this could lead to a drier finished product.

If you're not opening the door, you might try cooking a little larger batch (more meat, more humidity). Also, this may not be an issue, but if you can cook the ribs on a higher rack on the smoker, they will be farther away from the heating element, and therefore get more even heat. Also take some time to pick over the meat when you buy it. If you can find a meatier slab from end to end, the ends will be less likely to dry out. I do sometimes find that the meatier slabs will have more fat, however. I like spares much better than baby backs for smoking.

As for the foiling, you can turn out a decent slab by foiling halfway through the cook, but the final product won't have much "bark" on the outside. Also, foling produces a kind of "steamed" texture, which while tender, can end up mushy if you're not careful.


On the restaurant post... I'm sure many chains do use some sort of steamed rib. When I worked for Steak and Ale we offered a baby back rib. It actually came to us pre cooked and cryopacked, and we just put the slab on the charbroiler and basted it with BBQ sauce to heat it up. With that said, I'd be surprised if many actual "BBQ" centric chains do it that way. I'm pretty sure that at some point Famous Dave's used Cookshacks, and they may still. I'm also pretty sure "Smokey Bones" and "Red, Hot, and Blue" use another brand of commercial smokers. (Rather than boiling or steaming)

At our small group of BBQ restaurants, we use both Cookshack units, as well as units from other manufacturers, but at no time do we steam or boil ribs. I'm not trying to argue with Todd at all BTW, I just want to point out that restaurant BBQ is evolving beyond riblets at your neighborhood Chili's.

Liquid smoke is probably an ingredient in many sauces, whether the restaurant actually smokes their meats or not.

FWIW, my favorite way to eat ribs is right off of the smoker, with no sauce at all. Just the rub and the smoke and the pork doing it's thing!

Corky's did the original consult to set up Red,Hot,and Blue.

They put Southern Prides in,as they do at Corky's.

Although the cookteam for Smokey Bones does not use Southern Prides,some of the restaurants do.

As Matt said,you try to pick your slabs-when you can.

Many cookteams use Sam's for their ribs,but still have to pick through the case.

quote:

Originally posted by Studly:
[qb] How would a place like Famous Dave's do their ribs ... since their's are quite smokey tasting?[/qb]

Famous Dave's uses Cookshack smokers in some if not all their stores.

Thanks everyone for the tips. BQ Matt, to answer your question, I'm using a Smokin' Tex, and usually do two racks at a time w/o opening the door till the end. Last night I did two more racks and tried foiling them for about the last two hours, and they came out much more moist and much more to my liking.

These spares that I've always bought at Sam's Club seem to vary quite a bit in meat thickness (probably all spare rib racks do), and I think because the meat is 1/3 the thickness in some spots on the rib rack as the meat thickness on other spots on the rack, this was leading to the thinner meat drying out. Probably that and, as BQ Matt says, with only two racks in the smoker, it wasn't enough to keep the humidity level high.

However, with yesterday's attempt at smoking ribs, after brushing apple juice on the ribs and foiling for the last two hours, it turned out way better tasting (moist and not mushy at all) than the dried out ribs I had made before.

I know foiling may be sacrilegious for many of you purists, but if you haven't made ribs to your liking yet in your smoker, try brushing on some liquid about half way through the smoke and foiling them for an hour or two, and see if you like that moister version of ribs better.

Need convincing? I've read many posts in the WSM bullet forums that say the majority of people competing in serious Q cook-offs and competitions foil their ribs so they have a moister end product.

I wonder if the restaurants that truly smoke their ribs (such as Famous Dave's that have the Cookshacks) generally foil their ribs, or if the high qty of meat in the smoker automatically keeps the humidity in the smoker up, keeping the slabs moist, as BQ Matt says, which makes sense.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your help!!

Well,

speaking of foiling, you guys tease me a lot, but my biggest contention is to learn to cook without it and not use it as a crutch and when you've had perfect NONE foiled ribs, there's nothing better

There is a time and a place for it. The time, is when you can't make your smoker work and like Studly says, trying foiling.

If you're saucing your ribs, try cooking them about 3/4 of the way through your smoke, coat them in some sauce and put them back in for an hour. Pull them out and see if you like them.

As for competition cooks. Having a couple of hours around that circuit, most of the ones I know that use it, only use it at the end, after the ribs are done and they've added sauce, they just use it for holding in the temp. They don't use it as a "cooking" tool, just a "temp holding/finishing" tool. Yes, they use it and I've seen many a team throw them away because they left it too long in the foil and it fell apart and was too tender AND the texture was mushy/steamed, not tug off the bone.

But HEY, I think the perfect suggestion is to try two racks of ribs, one with and one without and see for yourself. For most of the public, that likes them fall off the bone, sauced, then foil may help you achieve that final missing link to your ribs.

...A foiling we will go...A foiling we will go...

Enjoy.

Smokin'

Smokin',

On the WSM forum, it sounds like many in competitions (particularly the "MIM circuit," whatever that is) use foil even during the smoking process.

For those interested in reading about it see:

http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=98110183&f=79...0024152&r=2390024152

and

http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=98110183&f=17...0061152&r=3770061152

MIM[Memphis in May] judges look for fall off the bone small loinbacks,usually.

You should be able to pull the whole piece of meat off the bone,with one easy pull of thumb and forefinger.

At a large MIM cook,it would not be unusual for a cook team to cook 18 slabs,to be able to present the best ones.

Like Smokin' says"it is a tool" and many use it to control timing.

It can be used by serious logburners, to keep from oversmoking.

Some horizontal logburners also flow a great amount of air and have a dryness problem.

It is also an art,which requires a good bit of practice and a lot of throwing away.

As usual,Smokin' is right on about developing techniques that are basic and then tinkering with the process.

Yes,you will see a lot of cooks using this tool at comps,but seldom at their house.

The Cookshacks probably cook a little too moist for some things.

Put a 2.5 lb slab of loinbacks,or St. Loius on the center rack ,meat down.

Cook at 225� for three hours and open the door.

See how much moisture is collecting in the bone curve.

Just a thought.

Great ideas thanks for bringing them Studly.

For all interested in MiM, I'm hearing that we're entering next year (we didn't make the draw last year) different competitions need different techniques...

There is still time for the Big Pig Jig,the 1st weekend in Oct.

Great weather,no tornado or flood.

I've already got my motel.

Cook ribs and shoulders.

All the big dawgs will be there.

L & L Cooking Crew usually wins it ,cooking only loinbacks.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that "real" BBQ type restaurants would steam their ribs. It wouldn't surprise me if some did, but I would be disappointed. The companies I typically consulted for back in the day were large, multi store, do everything menu kind of places that felt ribs were a necessary menu item to round things out.

Question for Donna or Smokin' though, do you know if CS supplies the smokers for a tiny chain in NC called "BBQ and Ribs Station"? I drove by them for two years refusing to stop. They break all the rules for good BBQ. They have new buildings, paved parking lots, they make you wear shoes to eat there, no dogs hanging around back, and you hardly ever see a pickup truck in their parking lot. They also happen to have the best BBQ and ribs I have ever had in a restaurant. My guess is that CS is involved somewhere.

Studly,
I've done many a rack of pork ribs, and mine always take 5-6 hours, and come out perfect.

However, I don't lie them flat on the shelves anymore because I did find some differences between racks. So I started using Cookshacks rib hooks (got the idea from this forum) and can do 3 racks of ribs at once, by cutting them in half and hanging them from the very top shelf, and they smoke evenly.

I do them at 225 and bring them to an internal temp of 190-195

They come out not quite falling off the bone tender. Just a very slight tug....perfect for my bunch.

Incidently...I don't foil. Tried it once, it was OK, but didn't really care for it.

The nice thing about bbq is that tastes and preferences vary so much, so you can experiment.

You might wanna give that a try...it's worked for me so I stick with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd G.:
Steam roasting in this manner allows them to prep a very large quantity of ribs in a short time and in little space. It also tends to produce a very tender, almost flavorless rib, so you better plan on a good sauce. I have never heard of Famous Dave's, so I can't speak for them. I've also wondered about places like Tony Roma's and Jilly's Ribs. I don't know how they do their ribs. I do know that some restaurants add liquid smoke to their finishing sauce, or to the water in the pan. That might explain some of what you have tried. Darryl's(which was part of the Houlihan's group) added liquid smoke or strongly flavored smoke BBQ sauce to almost everything. Apparently most of the public dosen't know the difference.

Todd,
I left Atlanta in 1989. Jilly's Ribs was still in business with 3 locations but I understand that the owner was jailed (taxes, dope?). Can you advise whether Jilly's is back in business? Maybe the owner is out of jail or sold "the recipe" . . . best ribs I have eaten in my life. I know, Tony Roma's is close but there is nothing like the ribs I got at Jilly's. Let me know something . . . PLEASE!
Jim Bristow
bristowcable@earthlink.net

Ya know,there is nothing wrong with great sauces.

There are places I go that have fine salad dressings,for iceberg lettuce wedges..

There are folks that have fine country sausage,that leave great drippin's to make gravy,and salvage their lousy biscuits.

There are some mess halls that make fine S.O.S,and it hides the toasted light bread,under it.

There are some fine "coonass' hot sauce and butter sauces that make plain white boiled rice,a real treat.

I can go on and on, about the creativity of fine sauce makers,that make really lousy food edible.

Of course,then there are the fine meat cooks,that don't even need ketchup to gag it down.

Just a thought