Tiles for heat stabilization?

I have never tried it in a smoker but have used fire bricks in ovens before. I don't know about unglazed tiles though. I would think that there might be a chance that if cracks developed in the tile and moisture got into it, it might explode when it is heated (kind of like using wet rocks to build your campfire). I am certainly no expert though.

I'm not convinced that stabilizing the temp in a cookshack is necessarily a good thing. They are designed to have the swings by virtue of the thermostat that has been selected. It is my theory, and only a theory, that the longer cycle times rather than shorter more frequent cycles are needed to properly heat and burn the wood to produce smoke. When I first got my cookshack several years ago I was concerned about the swings, but I soon dismissed them because the product that the smoker produced exceeded my expectations.

Just my thoughts,
Richard

I'd agree with Richard. You might not get the wood lit well enough.

On the other hand, if you want to try it and report, you may want to go with Mark's thoughts and try a pizza stone, set of tiles made for oven baking, or the ceramic briquettes for gas grills. Unfortunately all more expensive than just some tile from HD. How about a big cast iron skillet or other hunk of iron like an anvil?

One other factor: the CS usually burns a bit of grease for flavor as it drips on top of the woodbox. If you put something heavy between the woodbox and the food, you'll lose that but you might prevent the lower side of the food from getting more done than the top.

One other thought, by adding all that thermal mass, its going to take longer to do the initial warm up. That translates into: a) save time on initial warm up or; b) save time on reheat if you open the door. Another aspect of slower warm up is longer prolonged time in the danger zone and that equates to a food safety issue.

Richard

I agree that it would probably increase warm up time. I'm not sure that it is a food safety issue because the internal temp of the meat would still be raised high enough to kill bad bugs. Doesn't the "danger zone" refers to the range over which, food being held is particularly susceptible for bacterial growth?

If I try it, I'll stand the tiles around the sides. That way they'd be out of the way of direct drippage. First,I need more experience just using my new toy. It's just that "inquiring minds want to know."

I'm not an expert, but I think a response needs to be made to a common misconception about food safety. The temperatures acheived in cooking meat in a smoker are not high enough to "kill bad bugs". Particularly, botulism, etc. which thrive in a low oxygen warm environment (e.g. a smoker below 140*). The spores produced by these bad bugs live on and are quite dangerous.

I'm not contending that the tiles would slow warm up long enough to cause this problem. I just want people to understand that simply heating food to the temps common in smoking will not guarentee dead bugs.

Maybe someone with more knowlege on the subject will weigh in.

Richard

Hi folks,

I do have have a bit more knowledge. I'm a biologist and physiologist by training. Sorry I didn't make that clear. So let me say a couple of things that I understand and have checked with our poison control center here at the hospital in which I work.

First, with respect to botulism, the spores (the very tough resting stage of the critter) are everywhere. Fortunately for us, it takes some pretty special condtions for them to grow or we'd have problems all the time. The bugs need among other things, anaerobic (no oxygen) condtions to grow. The smoker oven is not sufficiently anaerobic to allow the spores to do their thing. The spores don't produce the toxins, bad bug juice, they just hang around until the circumstances are right and then they turn into their active form. Kind of like seeds that can stay seeds for years until the rains come.

And it does take heat, as correctly pointed out, to kill them (moist heat at 248 degrees for thirty minutes, to be exact.) This bug's toxins, on the other hand, are readily destroyed by heat, and cooking food at 80� C (176� F) for 30 min safeguards against botulism. It's the toxins, produced by the active bug, that are of concern in Clostridium botulinum. Futher, even if the spores did germinate into the bugs, the toxin would be destroyed by the heat.

Vehicles of transmission have included homemade salsa, baked potatoes cooked in aluminum foil, cheese sauce, garlic in oil, dry-cured sausage improperly cured, and traditionally prepared salted or fermented fish in Alaska. Improperly canned foods like tomatos, which are acidic- another thing Mr. B needs- are also common places for trouble.

There are other little wigglies that we might have a problem with in meat. The bad news is they re everywhere too. The good news is that they are very heat labile. That means that they are easily killed by heating them. FYI, milk is only brought to 160 dgrees F for a very short period of time, like 20 secs) when it is Pasteurized to kill all the pathogenic (disease producing) organisms in it.

Some of these guys include:

1. E. coli: This one's in your innards for example.
2. Salmonella: You've heard of this one in chickens and egg products.
3. Staph aureus: This is the one usually passed by a contaminated food worker not washing his or her hands before preping the potato salad. One of the classic food poisonings which gives you the trots for a couple of days.


Again, most problems arise when contaminated food that is improperly prepared e.g. cooked is allowed to remain in the "danger zone- 40 to 140 degrees F for too long a period of time. Below 40-too cold for most organisms to reproduce in the numbers necessary to cause difficulty. Above 140-too hot and most will be killed. The bugs need time at their favorite temp to germinate and release toxic levels of goo. Unless the sample is incredibly contaminated and very poorly processed, the food does not spring immediately to badness. ( Actually, according to the FDA, the hot temp of 140 degrees F contains a safety margin of several degrees on the high side. But they also say don't push it.)

That's why we are told to not leave stuff out of the frig for too long depending on what food we're talking about. That's also why it's important to re-heat those leftovers to temps which will kill any baddies that have managed to grow during the time on the table that they were within their reproductive temp zone. It is also possible for treats which were originally not buggy to become so. As when your uncle George sneezes and thousands of airborne raiding parties of spores or live mini-monsters land in your pasta salad. Yuck!


Good hand washing and common sense about cross-contamination (no chiken juices in the custard desert, please) as well as using perscribed cooking and presentation times can do wonders. If these beasties weren't containable with reasonably doable good health and food practices, we'd be in a world of hurt. Following these pretty simple steps will go a long way to keeping us bug free and happy. The FDA has some great suggestions on its' website too.

Well I've certainly rattled on. Hope it helps

Just more safe food for thought,

Hook

Thanks for the info - any specific references for the FDA? Or on smoked foods specifically? As you've probably seen here, the usual citations are Rytek Kutas's "If you're going to smoke it, you must cure it", the safe zone thermometer, and not much more than that.

We start talking about tiles, and end up on spores

I also send everyone to the Food Safety and Inspection Service website for good info:
Food safety and Inspection Service (FSIS)

Smokin'

Here are some good sites:

This one is from the FSIS and deals specifically with BBQ.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/pubs/facts_barbecue.htm

This is the "Bad Bug Book" from the FDa's Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrrition (CAFSN)

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/intro.html

This is the home page for the CAFSN

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/list.html

I suppose if we'd started this discussion alphabetically, we would have gotten to spores first. And speaking of tiles SmokinOkie sir, would either Stuart or you care to wade in on the subject?

Thanks

Hook, here you go.

And please don't call me Sir Around here's it's Smokin'. Sir makes me feel old or like I was back in the Military. Just call me Colonel Smokin'

Well, about tiles.

In something small like a Smokette, I don't think they would do much, based only on my common sense. There is already 1000 degree insulation, so we don't have a problem with heat loss. So the only benefit of tiles would be to what?

But, like we always say here, someone try it and tell us. Although it's hard to quantify the results.

The concept behind tiles to me would be the same as tuning plates in other smokers. Those bigger smokers have a lot of area to cover and the concept of the plates is to target the heat evenly in the smoker, usually a lateral issue of heat dissipation, not a vertical issue (like a smokette, where, because the heat source is below, you have an issue of the bottom rack getting the most heat. Same problem you have in all "vertical" smokers like a CS.

The best design I've seen to solve that would be a backwoods smoker, where the heat goes up the sides and down from above.

For me, the CS works great, I never really had an issue with the Smokette. I knew it's tendencies and work with them.

About the only issue where they might help, would be on the bottom shelf nearest the heat source to deflect some of the heat around the sides of the tiles...but then, all the juices get on them.

Smokin'

That covers it for me.

I'll stay with my CS the way it was when it was born. My brother just told me the brisket I made the other day is the best he's ever tasted.( And believe me, he's tasted a lot of brisket .) More to do with the equipment than the technique, I'm sure. But why tamper with success!

As the kids would say: "This forum rules."

Hook