Turkey-Again

I can't imagine going from freezer to smoker or anything without first thawing. Even the fresh birds bought at the store have things inside them in little bags, and need washed inside, not to mention the feathers left on the outside.

Sounds like a nice way to have the best of both worlds, smoke/crisp but are there any issues with heating the bird slightly and then cooling it, concerns about the nasties and things?

Believe me I am not one to follow rules so much, when cooking for myself, and I have eaten things that I shouldn't have (undercooked, maybe left in fridge or somewhere to long) and have gotten sick a few times to the point where I thought i was going to die. So I wouldn't hesitate to give it a shot for myself, but if feeding it to other i may give some thought.

I would NOT recommend anybody doing this....That is just asking for trouble. I try to be really careful with safety issues when doing this and that sounds as if it could make one mighty sick...

the only "oven to smoker" topics i remember were by prisonchef and delt with brisket and butts, different animals that turkeys.

Gotta say I don't understand the make you sick part. The ugly critters are already there and the heat kills them.. as I understand it.. or we'd all be sick from eating the birds.

No hint of sickness when I did the last bird. I did thaw it and rinse it well before smoking for an hour. The bird heated up but was definitely at a "bad" temp when I pulled it and put it in the frig for two days to absob the smoke.

When I pulled it to cook it.. I opened the cavity of the bird well and cooked at 500º for 30 minutes followed by the time it took to finish the bird at 350º.

Honestly, I'd prefer to have info that is NOT speculation.. NO BAD INTENDED to the three nice folks that did reply.

If the heat kills the bad guys and it's not at a critical temp range for a long period before it cools down after the smoke.. I don't see how that is any different from how I receive the bird from the market with all the bad guys already in there. This is all assuming I follow cleanliness and not do any cross contamination.

Bill,

I copied/pasted this from a food safety bulletin:

quote:

Never partially cook food for finishing later because you increase
the risk of bacterial growth on the food. Bacteria are killed when
foods reach a safe internal temperature.

I've partially cooked food before without ever getting sick, but it's not worth the risk--especially when cooking for others.

I just do not want to mess with things that "may" have a remote chance of getting me and others ill. I go from fridge to finished product. It tastes great and it is safe. Your method may be just fine. But, I prefer to eliminate "maybes". I do not like any type of risks or chances when playing with food for me or my guests.
I got sick from poulty once...its amazing that I even eat the stuff after that...ick!
If you are pulling at a bad temp and putting it in the fridge, aren't you increasing the chances for that bacteria to grow? I did not mean to sound speculative, but I prefer to get out of that bad range when I cook...

Dennis, thanks. Steve, thanks. Regarding Speculative.. I think the point of my comment above is that Forums like this, with the best of intentions, CAN tend to promote truth as well as half truth and "urban legends". The hope here is to separate fact from .....

Dennis' quote from a food safety bulletin (the likes of which I was hoping to find with a google search, but didn't) is what I was hoping for.

It's interesting to see that it says to NEVER do it.. yet, says that the bacteria are killed when the safe internal temp is reached. I don't know if that means not to do it if you don't normally cook some meats to a less than safe temp, such as a rare steak, or is it a CYA, or all inclusive, or ???

Poultry, I never cook to a less than safe temp which is why I never cook a stuffed bird, except for a couple of pieces of apple and onion, and open the skin flaps on the cavity of the bird with a spreader to allow the heat to more easily find it's way into that cavity.

Thanks again,

Smokenque, aside from bacterial growth, the other concern I have seen mentioned in this forum is the formation of toxins by the bacteria during time in the unsafe temp zone. If you do a search for "toxins" you will find several threads which address this and talk about how these are not always destroyed by reaching a specific temp while cooking. This seems to be more of concern than just killing the bugs and you will find good info there which is more than just "speculation".

OK, Back atcha.
When I buy a bird.. EVERY TIME.. I buy it at the huge chain supermarket as probably most of us do. That bird, typically, was frozen and thawed. These are allowed for a few days as thawed birds before they go on discounted special.

So, What in the world is the difference with what I'm doing. I'm heating the bird for ONE HOUR.. and back into the frig. for a day. I seriously doubt if what I'm doing will allow much in the line of either bacteria or toxins from building up. Once it's back in the frig and cooled which is likely a matter of an hour to an hour and a half.. it's back at the safe point. In fact, with a frozen bird, most of it is still below the safety margin which should help it chill faster.

Mudgie, thanks, BTW, I hope that last sentence was not chiding me. I'm here for the information. I'll search toxins. At this point I'm not concerned. I've done it once with a thawed bird and all went well. I expect the same with this bird with an added safety margin of partially frozen.

Smokenque, definitely not chiding you. In reviewing the toxin posts, there are many good pieces of information and quotes from reliable sources. These people are professionals who have taken food safety classes. My concern with cooking anything from a frozen state is the length of time it remains in the danger zone, which seems like it would be longer if starting frozen and doing the full cook. If all you are going to do is smoke the frozen critter for an hour, then finish defrosting in the fridge and cook in the oven after completely thawed, yeah-I would eat it Let us know how well a frozen bird takes up smoke. Please also post internal temp of bird when you take it out of the smoker if you can get a reading. I'm wondering if it could go back in the freezer - sort of a "pre-smoked" bird to be cooked later?? You may be on to something.

Thanks for that info. I did a "toxin" and "toxins" search and it provided some great info.. info I wasn't aware of and will certainly keep in mind for future cooks.

This bird, as mentioned, was not completely thawed when I put it in the smoker. It was thawed by the time I pulled it. It's resting int the frig and will cook tomorrow.. along with some ribs as a separate cook.

Well, the bird was excellent. No one got sick or even queezy.

Only problem is.. I didn't get as much smoke on this bird as with the last one.

What kind of wood did you use, and how much?

1 oz. of Apple wood. Should have known better. I usually use 2 to 2.5 oz.