Where's the smoke?

WOW, that's 6 months worth of wood for me. I am sure you have experimented with other woods; perhaps one of these would not require reloading, while giving you the taste you desire.

I read in a thread a while back that meat will not accept smoke after a certain temperature.

On the bright side in my bizarre world 6 hrs. is "hit it and forget it!"

BG

Thanks for the input. I have been smoking foods for about eight years and have found NO other wood that will give the SAME flavor. The SAME flavor is very important when you are selling food for a living. However, we do use apple some with other meats. But, I don't think the wood type is going to matter so much.
You're right! 6 hours is hit it and forget it--kinda. I can get 4 sometimes 5 hours of time between tendings with my wood fueled pits. If one loads meat at 6 o'clock pm after working 14 hours(since 4:30 am) and needs something that can be left for 12 hours UNattended until the following morning. Returning at 12 midnight to reload is not "hit it and forget it." Gotta be back @ 4:30 am.
Meat not accepting smoke after 140 is kinda not exactly true. 140 and below it accepts smoke best is more accurate.
Thanks again!
Zeb

Zeb

Getting up at midnight to load wood could have a cholesterol lowering effect on my diet.

BG

Maybe you could mix the red oak with a wood with a stronger flavor, hickory, perhaps?

Start by adding just a small amount and adjust as you smoke subsequent loads until you get what you want.

Donna

Like Donna says,mix some flavor woods.

A pure log burner may use all oak,because it can oversmoke.

Throw apple in with the oak on your pork,and hickory or pecan with beef.

A number of folks like about 30 % flavor woods.

I'm still trying to learn.. and I'd like to look to a larger smoker. However, in my nieve perspective.. I don't see how the answers to Zeb's question answer his question. Maybe it does, but, I'm still left hanging.

He seems to have a LOT of experience with smoking and he knows what he likes. He just bought a CS.. so, that seems to be the only new process added to his years of experience.

It doesn't seem that the wood is the issue. He already likes the taste that his Red Oak gives.. it is the lack of intensity that he is getting in his new smoker.. especially considering the amount of wood he has been using.

I'm guessing, but this box is probably 3X the size of my 008.. maybe more?? Why should a box this size take as much wood as Zeb is having to use.. and he still doesn't get the intensity he is used to?

I'm likely only going to up to a 100 or 200 series.. so, curious if I'd have to be using the amounts of wood Zeb is having to use.

Thanks for any further help with this question.

Great cooks can cook on any cooker.

All cooks learn their cooker and make adjustments.

I have met few that can radically change equipment without going through some adjustment curve.

I assume that is what Zeb is asking for.

We don't know Zeb's taste,approaches,final products,etc.

As he says,Oak is queen of woods,it mellows out flavor woods,and if you have enough airflow-you usually don't oversmoke.

We understand he is coming off 100% logburners,that we know nothing about the type.

I've seen logburners that eat a cord of split oak over the weekend.

We don't know if he is pre burning his oak to coals and then cooking high over direct heat,allowing the fat to drip on the coals.

If so,this is the same principle as cooking burgers over your charcoal weber.

An extreme analogy might be that I've driven a million miles in assorted pickups and light trucks and many have been diesel.

I just took delivery on my new dump truck and it doesn't start or go through the gears as easily.

I'm sure that with a few tips and a few adjustments in my technique,I'll also be comfortable with my new dump truck.

There are folks on here with experience in a lot of different cookers and most will advise to make adjustments in steps,because often there is not one answer.

We try to give a start point,since we aren't standing there,and help him adjust to his needs as he sees them.

Hope this helps a little.

BTW Donna's family invented the Cookshack,it was designed as a large cut meat cooker,and she does know stuff.

zeb,
i am not really familiar with your model but on our sm150 to increase the smoke flavor peggy has learned to manually set the cook temp to 145 and then manually set the cook time to 2 hours. she has also learned that if she puts chilled meat into the sm when she does this she can increase her smoke taste. after the 2 hour smoke on chilled meat she has found she can then switch it over on the auto setting and walk off.
dont know if this will help you or not
jack

Sorry for the delayed response. We had an excellent week at the restaurant, so time has been hard to come by.

Bikergar,
you got that right!

Donna,
thank you for the input. The only problem with mixing wood for us is that it is not what our customers/we are use to. Consistency is VERY important in the food business.

Smokenque,
You hit the nail on the head! I would not worry about the amount of smoke too much if you are looking to get a larger model. It would be hard to get the same amount of smoke with a CS as a wood fired pit, just because there is more smoke with the wood fueled pit. But, we have found that you can get it pretty close. You just have to tinker with it some. Depending on the wood you use and your tastes, the loading the box with X amount of wood just once when you start may be sufficient to suite your needs.

Tom,
My pits are indirect and we load them like a wood stove. Just cram wood in and let it rock until it needs more wood.

PC313,
Your wife is quite a sharp gal! She is doing almost exactly what we started doing. Being in the restaurant business the chilled meat thing is sort of a given but, the starting low and then increasing the temp manually later is how we approached it, as well. We have it figured out now and are quite happy with the machine. We just have to reload the boxes about 5-6 hours into the cook to get the amount of smoke that we are use to. Not a big deal.

About the CS250.....We like it. ALOT! It has saved me a ton of personal time, expanded my menu and given me new capabilities concerning the catering end of our business.(I no longer need 1-2 weeks notice--just about 72 hours---still prefer a week, though.)
If one is an experienced smoker the learning curve is only slight. Though, not fooling with it the whole time you are cooking is a little hard to get use to. That is one reason we got it but, I still kinda miss fooling with the fire. One of the neater things about it is that it allows someone like my wife to start smoking and making good food from the word go.
All in All it has been a good purchase that I am sure we will MORE than make our money back on.
Thanks for the replies!
Zeb
Owner/Operator/Cook/Mantainence Man/Dishwasher of Zeb's in Arden, NC

Zeb,
If you want more smoke after you are cooking along:

1. How do you know? Is this after you taste?
2. When and how do you apply it?

These are questions I had been thinking about. I kind of got an idea watching Jack using wood in the Brinkman's but wasn't sure when was the right time to apply while cooking in the SM150.

Thanks
Peggy

Peggy,
I will answer this after work today if I have time~~~ sorry I can't right now. I am running late for work
Zeb

Peggy,
I am home for a few minutes before I have to go back and cure Turkey. When are we gonna go to 36 hour days? I could use a couple.
If you want to add more smoke as your are smoking along just simply add more wood--LOL!
But, seriously. I fooled with mine until I figured out about how long it took the wood in the boxes to be of no use. The 250 has 2 boxes and if I load them down(I have been cutting wood so that each piece nearly fills the wood box completly~~you will find that one solid chunk smokes much longer than a bunch of small chunks)
I think that yours has one box--shouldn't matter, though. It should still smoke 4-6 hours. Chunks only seem to last 2-3 for me. I use them on ribs, chicken and turkey. Once I figured that part out I just open the smoker dump the boxes and reload the amount of wood that I need based on the info above. I have also found what amounts of wood produce how much "smoke."(full boxes versus partially full and using chunks) I wish I could give you weights, but that is not how I do it. Weights are not real good to go by, for me, because I cut my own wood and there is inconsistency in the wood from piece to piece. You just have to have a "Feel" for it. (You seem pretty bright~~you can/will get the "Feel.")Some is more seasoned. Some is dryer.~Note~ avoid bark if you can and don't use green woods. Green woods can "Over smoke"--not the correct term. Ummmm....Sort of Creosole-ish. "Sharp with smoke" is the best term.
Now the above mentioned is just if you know that you want/need more smoke from your experience. Lots of Smoke is good with thick cuts. You have to get smoke deep in the meat to have enough to flavor the whole piece of meat. That is why when you make rub for a thick piece of meat you should make it really loud. Once it is broken up and you spread the flavor around with all the unseasoned meat it mellows out. The smoke is the same way. I call it the rub to meat ratio and the smoke to meat ratio.
That is why I have a different rub for ribs than I do for Butts. The same is true for the smoke. It is a VERY similar rub for both but the rib rub is milder~~again, the rub to meat ratio. If one eats a rib, they will be eating more rub than when eating Q. Every bite is a mouth full of rub with ribs, not with Q. Just little pieces of bark here and there. I smoke with the same woods for both but use much less smoke with the ribs. The smoke to meat ratio.
Sorry I got carried away!
How do I know if it needs more smoke?
Welp, the sad truth is you really don't know until it is done. If you take a pinch of Butt and sample it while cooking you can't tell because you will be getting a piece that is only a little way into the meat. It will seem smoky enough. But, when you break up the meat you may find out diferent. It is about impossible to do WHILE cooking. You only really know when you get it to the serving stage. If it ain't smoky enough this time, then add more next time and visa-versa. I am sorry that I can't give you a smoke "recipe", it just don't work that way.
I don't "experiment" with woods too much anymore. Tough, I still dabble some. I spent years doing that and have found what works for me. I advise everyone to experiment. It is the way you learn what you like. Smoke IS the flavor that one should shoot for. That is why am SO against using liquid smoke in sauces or marinades. THAT IS NOT SMOKING! Who cares if you smoked it with apple if you cover it up with Hickory~ a much louder smoke that WILL cover it.

Anyway....Here are a few things that I can tell you about wood and the woods that I have used.

OAK...Mellow. You CANNOT over smoke large cuts with it.
There is a difference in Red and White. Red smells pissy when you cut it and for a few days after you cut it it smells like dog crap~ Litterally! White does not. That is why I would not use the Red for a long time. Man, I am GLAD that I was forced to use it that one time
HICKORY....nice wood. Is pretty mellow as long as you are careful with it. You can over smoke with it.
APPLE....Mellow. Don't use it green! It will make the smoke too sharp-quick! Other than that, apple is your friend!
CHERRY.... Nice, but kinda sharp. Use in moderation.
MAPLE....Sweet! Use in moderation though. It is a soft wood and can creosole the meat up.
POPLAR....NEVER! Remember, I am self taught.
PECAN....Never had the pleasure of using it. But have eaten meat smoked with it. Kinda a mix between Apple, Hickory and White oak.
BIRCH.... on thin cuts and used in moderation, Sweet, minty-ish and interesting.
MESQUITE......... Sharp! Nice wood, but EASY with this one! A LITTLE goes a long ways. It is VERY easy to ruin meat if you are not careful.
To test wood.... don't use the CS. Simply burn a piece and smell the smoke. Get a face full~ not a nose full. Burn 4-5 good pieces in something and get down wind about 10 feet and smell. The mellow smokes do not burn the eyes or nose. The sharp ones do. The Sweet ones smell sweet. Smoke tastes like it smells. Smell and taste go hand-in-hand.
Don't go by smoke recipes. As with all recipes they are just a starting point. Hence the term "season to taste".

Hope this helps!
Zeb

P.S.
Peggy PM me and I will get some info from you and send you some stuff to check out with some instructions.