Brining 202!

Well,Smokin' is the Master,but on salt there can be a big difference in weight/volume measure.

Table salt is very fine,and you can google differences in kosher salt to see how to adjust your measure for different brands.

In the Brining 101, the Simple Brine I and Simple Brine II shows equal amounts of Kosher salt to sugar...if that helps.

like Tom notes table salt and kosher salt have different volume:weight ratios. Therefore it is best to learn the differences by weighing each; even different brands of kosher salt will vary significantly. It is best to develop a weight ratio that works for you. Same with sugars; brown sugar vs. granulated sugar are not interchangable by volume; best to use weights.

do not use table salt with iodine. Canning & Pickling salt is table salt without iodine.

Well, guess I have to answer as the Jedi Brine Master

quote:

Originally posted by cal:
When making a brining solution with Kosher salt, it is my understanding that I want 1/4 cup less sugar then the salt. Is this to give the salt a little flavor as opposed to equal amounts?

Says who? I'm pretty sure I didn't make that claim. I actually have brines where I have twice as much sugar as salt (no I'm not telling where). The ONLY requirement for a brine is to be a salty solution. Everything else is just something that gets carried along for flavor. That's why I believe dark meat takes longer to absord than white me if they're both in the same brine, something to do with the density and type of protein in the different meats.

quote:

Will the transfer rate increase very quickly with 1 cup K salt as opposed to 3/4 cup K salt? Can I just brine a longer period with the smaller amount and get the very SAME effect?...or do I get a more salty taste?

I've actually not seen any scientific point made that says a stronger salt brine goes quicker. I think the laws of physics have more of an impact. The protein in use and it's density have more impact on how quick or how slow. But that's my thoughts behind it, no real proof. And unlike many people talking about brining, I try to find verified source for my stuff since I get quoted a lot.

Keep in mind, brining is brining, so soaking in a salt solution will work. The EFFECT is more going to be a result of taste carried into the food by the solution. You'll only get a more salty taste if you add more salt.

Brining works on osmosis. Once it achieve equilibrium with the brine solution, then it's at the base level. Soaking longer won't make it MORE salty, only when you add more salt and change the % of salt in the brine.

What length MAY have an effect on is proteins being denatured. I've tests on really long brines and really didn't see where it eventually broke down to mush. Many people claim that the longer you brine it the more mushy it gets, but I haven't been able to prove that. It's more anecdotal when I hear people talk about it. The issue really then is one of person preference. I brine my turkey in the holiday brine and have NEVER had some say it was salty and I soak them for 48 hours.

quote:

What effect will the increase in K salt have on diluting my other spices?

Good question, but your answer is not that it dilutes the spices but that it could over power them. Brines are about RATIOS. Add more water to the same amount of spices and you dilute the brine, thus making it a less salty solution. The RATIO then is what spices to what ratio, similar to when you do a rub. I don't have a ratio system for X amount of salt to X amount of sugar to X amount of spices. More salt means just that more salt and may overpower the other spices.

quote:

I add honey after the solution has cooled, does this have effect on the salty taste or lack of to the finished product?

Same answer as above. When you change the ratios, you'll change the flavors. Adding more "sweet" should make it more sweet.

quote:

Am I wasting my money on Kosher salt as opposed to buying table salt,IYO?

I think so. Look at the price per cup or per pound. I buy a 25 lb bag of table salt (non iodized) at Sam's for a few bucks. 1 box of Kosher cost more than that whole bag.

Salt is salt. Sodium chloride is sodium chloride. The ONLY difference between canning salt, kosher salt, table salt is the size of the grain. Sea salt is sodium chloride too. Now the REAL difference comes in any trace elements/flavors added to the salt. Straight sea salt is just salt, but if it comes from a region with other elements, then it gets different flavors. But the flavors aren't from the salt, they're from those other elements.

Save your money and don't use Kosher in brines or sea salt in brines. Save those for rubs and seasonings.

quote:

Anyone else have any questions for the MASTER?

You'll probably have more based upon what I said.

Bring them on. You might get a "SMOKIN'" answer and really long post, but Brining is something I like to put the facts out there for you to decide.

Smokin,

I've noticed that most frozen turkey's have a % of "basting solution" added. In your experience does that have an effect on brining and therefore shy away from them or will the brine intermix with the basting solution? I would think that the basting solution is really just another brine injected into the turkey but I really don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by JerinVA:
Smokin,

I've noticed that most frozen turkey's have a % of "basting solution" added. In your experience does that have an effect on brining and therefore shy away from them or will the brine intermix with the basting solution?

Check out this link:

Brining 202

Russ,

Thank You. I saw the frozen turkey last night had 15% solution which I thought was high and was going to hold out and hopefully find one with less solution. Guess I can still go with the 15% bird if I have to.

Ya betcha Smokin'!!! 1st Thanks for helping me clear up a few troubling thoughts...but for the follow up...Thanks for that also.

Will a product benefit from allowing it to rest after brining...ie, a turkey will have more flavor if taken out of brine and allowed to set all night or two nights in the frig before smoking?

I guess from what TN Q and you are telling me is that if I weigh the 3/4 cups of Kosher salt that I use then I would weigh the regular salt to get the equal-lent amount?

Yes I would like to ask about them sugar brines...BUT this is where I believe I can use some smoking and note taking. I gotta have some FUN,ya know!

Let there be NO mistake you have my attention when you speak about brines and brining, thanks again!



JerinVA,

I go to the local grocery store and buy the "best choice" brand turkey,8% enhanced the last time I looked.

Cal,

Thank you. Will have to see what is available here in VA. Might be too close to DC to find a turkey that isn't already fill of brine.

Hi all, long time lurker first time poster.
I've been looking at a brine recipe that calls for pineapple juice, brown sugar, soysauce, salt, maple syrup, garlic, bayleaves a red pepper.
This recipe calls for 1 hour a pound because of the acid in the pineaple juice. What effect would the pineapple juice have if the turkey was left in brine longer? can I get away with a 48 brine?

quote:

Smokin you've said " What length MAY have an effect on is proteins being denatured. I've tests on really long brines and really didn't see where it eventually broke down to mush. Many people claim that the longer you brine it the more mushy it gets, but I haven't been able to prove that. It's more anecdotal when I hear people talk about it. The issue really then is one of person preference. I brine my turkey in the holiday brine and have NEVER had some say it was salty and I soak them for 48 hours."
does this aply to brine."

Does this include all brines with salt? are there other types of additions like pineapple juice that may be high in acid that would cut down on the brine time?

thank you
MarcoV

Once you use a brine with an acidic base like pineapple juice, you run the risk of breaking down the proteins in the meat (mush as you say) if you leave it in too long. You may actually have a marinade depending on the salt content. In either case, brine or marinade, I wouldn't deviate from the recommended usage. 48 hrs may indeed get you where you don't want to go. Stay with an hr/lb if you use the pineapple recipe.

You can tell by the recipe if it's a brine or marinade. If there's a lot of salt, like 3/4-1 cup kosher/gallon of liguid, to encourage the osmosis affect, you have a brine. If the recipe calls for minimum salt just for flavoring, then you've got a marinade. In either case, if pineapple is the main source of liguid, go with the hr/lb.

It' not the introduction of the Acid Marco, it's the Pineapple.

Pineapple would be a no no for me for brining. It contains Papayin (sp?) and that actually DOES break down the protein.

Sure you can use it, but I'd be ultra careful and practice.

Me? I love pineapple but I never add it to a brine.

Thanks for your quick response Pags and Smokin.
another question, Smokin, I think i read on Turkey 101 in your brine recipe that you could substitute water for apple juice. Can i still brine for 48 to 60 hours?

Yes to the Apple Juice

Smokin',

I have a question about the enzyme in pineapple. I have read some folks that thinks of themselves as knowledgeable about pineapple enzyme and are trying to say that heating it will kill the enzyme. What are your thoughts/feelings about this claim?...as you can tell I'm clueless on this subject, but would like to learn more.

Is it true that processed pineapple is not as bad as fresh on the enzyme breaking down proteins cells?

THANKS for the guidance and teaching!

I haven't studied pineapple from that aspect so I can't really say, but I'm not sure how heating will kill papayin? but what do I know.

Turkey's cheap enough, go ahead and try it.

Have you did any brining with a buttermilk solution and do you think it has an effect on the breaking down of the proteins? Thanks, oh also will it decrease the brining time?

Cal, suggest if using different salts keep careful notes and measure by weights as different salts have different densities.
Do stay away from iodized salts.
Patting fowl dry and allowing to rest refrigerated for 24 hours will help with a crispy skin.
Any type of acid in a brine will break the meat down if left to long. I personnaly don't brine with the addition of acid but do use it in some marinades.
Buttermilk marrinade makes a wonderful fried chicken, don't know about smoking it. Yes, it will help tenderize the poultry.

Tom