Brisket Mystery

I'm not an expert but I have had good sucess with briskets. The ones I have been buying at a local super walmart are packer cuts that weigh 8 to 10 pounds and that includes plenty of fat on the brisket. It sounds like if your's was just a flat with little fat that it would be fairly large if it was still a packer cut. One thing I learned on the forum is to look for the small tender ones. I always take the smallest ones in the case as there are always lots of 13-14 pound ones in there. Also I start smoking at 225 and if anything bump it up to 250 if I need to get it done faster. Hope that helps.

Hi MIN Que

Sounds like you did everything right. You may be right in saying that it came from a big ole steer....biggest flats I have ever found were about 5 pounds.

I think 195� is about 10� to high. I shoot for 185� and then wrap and rest. Not sure if that would have made a big difference.

The quality of the meat could also be a problem. The lower the grade, the less the marbling, the less the juiciness.

I think a brisket is a perfect example of a piece of meat that likes it lo and slo, so your temps sound OK. I was taught by a Texan who cooked it at 200� for the entire cook.

I say just keep practicing!

Howdy,MIN Que.

Stogie is pretty square on my experience with a CS.

If you cooked two or three flats in it,you would have different results still.

IMHO the flats are going to be the most difficult to do consistently of whatever you cook.

The beast itself seems to want to have an opinion.

I'd agree that with your CS,you should check it around 185� and if it is close,foil it for a couple of hours in a cooler.

The more you practice ,the more stories you'll have on those flats.

But,they'll still eat good.

MQ,

Based on your description of the final product, "solid piece of rubber, fairly tender and moist but not real tender", makes me believe it was under-cooked. Overcooking a brisket tends to make it very dry but still fairly tender.

The resting period of 2.25 hours should have been enough to finish the cooking, unless you added cold beef stock and your picnic cooler was large. The loss of heat may have slowed or stopped the cooking process.

The beef stock could also be the cause of the lack of flavor. I've found that a brisket that cooks or sits in liquid tends to taste like roast beef rather than BBQ. When it's time to wrap and rest my brisket, I do it with the fat side down so I don't loose the bark or the seasoning. No, it doesn't get dry.

The next time you're cooking one and it's ready for wrapping, try wrapping it in foil, fat side down, with no added liquid. Seal the foil tightly. You can place it back in the smoker and hold it at 140 for 2-3 hours to finish cooking.

And try to buy briskets graded "choice or better".

Quick question (I only have time for a fast answer today).

How did you slice it? It's possible to undercook just a little and slice it wrong and have a chewy end product.

Just thought I'd ask since I do my briskets in the 185 to 195 range.

We'll help you out. When I can, I'll stop in with some more detailed comments.

Smokin'

Okey dokey, Boys, finally scored a "brisket". It IS a brisket and yet it has a label that sez "beef in a bag". Huh? Anyway, it's a whole 5.66 lbs., well marbled, and cost me 3.87 a pound. So...my point being when you say "you have to experiment" you must be talking to rich people! I cannot experiment, nor will I, with expensive meat. I cannot afford to play with my food. It's get it right the first time!

Gonna do it this Memorial Day. I've done my studying, Folks, and have a plan.I am not the least bit unsure about the end result. Instinct, you know. What I wanna know is, what's the way you guys serve it? I'm thinking about the beans underneath thing. That's cool! But, on serving the meat...ya just slice and offer a sauce? Or place on bread? What? What constitutes a complete Brisket Dinner (outdoors) to "ya'll"?

Thanks for all of your replies. They are very much appreciated.

Now, before I go further, I want to appoligize for not understanding what some of the abbreviations mean. Specifically could someone tell me what "LOL" and "IMHO" stand for. I have been able to decipher others, but not these and in reading these threads, one gets frustrated without understanding the meanings of abbreviations.

Let me also correct something from my original question on "Brisket Mystery". After going to Sam's last night, it is my understanding that the brisket was "choice" which is stated on the tag hanging on the cooler with the price. It had a 1/4 to 3/8 inch fat covering over about 65 percent of the top. But it had very little or no fat marbling.

And while I said it was "fairly tender and moist" what I meant was it was not dry but at the same time not juicy either and it was just mildly tender. Perhaps this is a slightly better decription than I gave yesterday.

As to SmokinOkie's question, I sliced it about 3/16 inch thick.

And another question was the temperature of the beef broth and cooler-they were both at room temperature.

As I recall, there was some mention of a "poke test" for the ideal doneness on a brisket in addition to the internal temperature. Is anybody of aware of this type of test and how specifically would one go about it and what is the interpretation of the results?

Again, appreciate your excellent comments?

MIN Que

MIN,

It sounds like your brisket, for the most part, was successful. It may not be what you had in mind, but believe me, I have cooked and sampled much worse. As another member put it, each brisket is its own animal. The cooking times will vary from brisket to brisket, sometimes more than you would expect. Also, the moistness and texture will vary.

As for the "poke" test you mentioned, in time you will get to know what it feels like. I think it's hard to describe accurately. The best description I have heard was this: if you put a fork in it and you can twist the fork easily, it's done. Personally, I use both temperature and "poke", only I poke with an instant-read thermometer instead of a fork; double duty that way. Perhaps some of the other members can describe the "poke" a little better.

Smokin' mentioned something important, and that's how you slice it. Be sure to slice across the grain.

One other comment if you don't mind; I think you will find that adding all the extra fat really doesn't do much. At least that's my opionion, which is based on my brisket experiences. But, the most important thing is to have fun. Do whatever turns you on and keep on doing it.

Cheers, beers, and burnt-ends to ya,
Killer George

Andi,

If that "beef in a bag" really is brisket, that's one expensive brisket. I guess it has a lot to do with your location. I thought briskets were expensive in Southern California; running close to $2/lbs retail for packer trimmed choice or better.
At your prices, I'd stick with Moose.

As for eating brisket, I think it makes the best sandwiches. I'm not much for eating a plate full with beans, but slap it on some bread with BBQ sauce and it's a winner.

Cheers, and enjoy.

MIN & ANDI
IN THE 10 MONTHS I'VE HAD MY CS 50 I'VE SMOKED OVER 600 BRISKETS, 1500 CHICKENS, 3000 SAUSAGES, 300 PORK BUTTS, 500 RACKS OF RIBS, 50 TURKEYS, 50 DUCKS, 3 LAMBS, AND AN OSTRICH. I'VE YET TO HAVE A BAD RESULT AND HAVE THE REPUTATION OF HAVING THE BEST BBQ IN 1000 MILES (WELL WHERE I LIVE THERE AIN'T MUCH REAL BBQ WITHIN A 1000 MILES). MY ADVICE TO YOU IS STICK TO THE BASIC CS RECIPES ON THIS WEBSITE AND DON'T GET TOO WRAPED UP IN ALL THE BS.
FOR BRISKET, WE BUY SAMS CLUB USDA CHOICE PECHO ENTERO (WHOLE BRISKET) FOR 34 PESOS A KILO ($1.71 A POUND). OPEN THE BAG, RINSE, PUT IN CS, FILL BOX WITH MESQUIT, SET TO 175. 12 HOURS LATER, UNPLUG. IN AN HOUR OR SO REMOVE FROM CS, TRIM, WRAP, THROW IN COOLER FOR TODAY OR FRIDGE FOR TOMMOROW.
SLICE ACROSS THE GRAIN, SERVE ON FRESH BREAD WITH PICKLE, ONION, HOMEMADE BBQ SAUCE AND NOTHING ELSE. YOU'LL BE A HERO. SO FAR ITS ALMOST BEEN FOOLPROOF.( WITH MY STAFF IT WOULD HAVE TO BE).
IT'S MY FIRST CHANCE TO SAY SO ON THIS SITE, BUT I BELIEVE THE CS SMOKER IS THE BEST THING THAT'S HAPPENED TO BBQ SINCE THE INVENTION OF SAUCE. MOSTLY BECAUSE ITS SO HARD TO SCREW-UP.

Minn Que,I think KG probably hit it on the head and you did too.

You may do it identically next time and have a very different feel about it.

I'd say ,vary one item and do it the same next time.

Remember a flat is maybe the most difficult of all to nail consistently.




I think with some practice,you might be pleased.

Another thing about explaining your level of tenderness,if you slice across the grain to the thickness of a #2 pencil and you can pick up a long slice by one end without it falling apart and you can then hold each end between the thumb and forefinger and gently pull the slice in two;you have gotten about as close to texture as you may get."In My Humble Opinion",of course sometimes it makes me" Laugh Out Loud".

If all else fails,and you can only get flats-there are some techniques that have you cook to a certain temp. ,foil and continue cooking to a higher temp.,and then rest in the cooler for several hours.

MIN
LOL (Laugh out loud)
IMHO (In my honest opinion)

As far as the slicing, very specific question. If you slice it with the grain, it can be tougher, if you slice across the grain, it will definitely eat more tender. IMHO

KG described the poke test well.

If you inserted the temp probe in the right section (and it didn't read hot) then the 192-195 range should have been fine. That's why I suggested the question about cutting. It does make a difference.

Desperado

Wow, you've been smoking a lot, no wonder you haven't had time to post. Please do not type in all CAPS. To most on the internet, that's shouting. Plus, it makes it easier to read.

Thanks,

Smokin'

Andi,the only thing I'd add to desperado's sandwich would be some pickled japs and a small scoop of tater salad on the side.

'Course I can eat beans as a side for anything.

Desperado......

I have to wonder what kind of brisket you are serving.

You say to set the temp at 175� and then in just 12 hours turn it off and let it sit for a couple hours? Quite honestly, that makes no sense to me.

To get a good tender brisket, you need the temp up around 185-190�. That collagen is still rendering at temps between 170-175�...which is the max your meat will ever reach. Plus, in just 12 hours, I can't see a whole brisket getting to that temp.

I learned to cook brisket from a Texan. Most of these folks cook it at 200� and it takes them 20-30 hours to finish. The meat temps were always right around 185-188�.

I realize there are many ways to cook BBQ and every one has their own "style". There is no right or wrong way, I am just in doubt that a brisket cooked for 12 hours at 175� is tender.

Again, not saying right or wrong, just curious.

A little brisket story, as usual a bit irrelevant:

Neighbor moved here with her son from southern Texas. One day she asked where she might buy a brisket. She had looked at Kroger and a couple other supermarkets to no avail. Suggested she try SuperWalMart.

Then I asked her what she planned to do with her brisket. Mentioned I had a smoker. She said, "I've tried smoking, but I don't have time to fool with it all day. So I just put my brisket in a pan with some Coca-Cola and bake it at 250 starting in the morning. That's the way I always do it."

So, it seems like there's many styles of Texas brisket. When I'm feeling a might more like sticking my nose in, I might ask if she'd like to try Smoketting one - maybe brined in Coca-Cola!

Smokin'
Thanks for all the help you gave me getting started with my cs even though you didn't know it as I've been just lurking up to now.
Sorry about the all caps, i'm just a poor typer and can get it out a lot faster that way, no offense intended.

Tom,
in my part of te world they put japs on everthing, and i perfer cole slaw.

Stogie,
haven't calibrated the thermostat, that's just the setting that seems to work best, i've caught my guys with it set any where from 175-225 and it all comes out pretty good.
My main point to MIN was it sounded like he was getting way to complicated for a first time out and if he went back to the basics he might enjoy his cs a little more.

I couldn't agree with you more, Desparado! I think folks make Briskets w-a-y too serious! It's just a piece of meat and the whole object is to cook it to death so it melts in your mouth! How hard is that?

Thanks for the serving tips, All! It will be sandwiches. Mmmm! Glad for that one!

I buy brisket at SuperWalmart, usually in the neighborhood of $1.00 a pound. They run about 10-12 pounds each, vacuum packed. I rinse them, pat dry, salt and pepper them, put them in my Smokette, fold them to fit on the shelf, put the Polder probe down the smoke hole and into the meat, add a couple pieces of oak, set the Smokette for 225 degrees and leave it alone for 14 hours. I think the temperature of the meat is great when it reaches 190-200 degrees. If I am not going to serve it right away, I wrap it in aluminum foil and put it in the refrigerator. I reheat it at 250 degrees in the oven for an hour or so, slice it across the grain and serve it with BBQ sauce. Sometimes when I am doing butts on my big smoker grill, I do a brisket at home in the Smokette and take it along, put it on the grill the last hour with the butts and serve it along with the pork. It is always good, and it doesn't get easier than set it and forget it. Cookshack rules.

Just wanted to jump in with my two cents worth. I am a beginner and have smoked about 8 to 10 briskets with great results. I have kept it very simple and had great tips from the CS gang. All I can find here are flats, and what I do with them is inject them with some marinade (balsamic vinegar, beef broth and some spices) cover the whole flat with yellow mustard, cover with rub let sit for a few hours then smoke to 190 internal temp. The results have been awesome. Keeping it simple has produce great results for me. Hope this helps! JZ

Desperado,
I'm looking for a good homemade Q-sauce. Any chance you want to let us in on any of your secrets?

pigfan

quote:

Originally posted by Andi:
[qb]I couldn't agree with you more, Desparado! I think folks make Briskets w-a-y too serious! It's just a piece of meat and the whole object is to cook it to death so it melts in your mouth! How hard is that?
[/qb]

Andi, those are fighting words in the Brisket world. Texas is probably planning an attack on Alaska. If it's so easy, why does everyone have such a hard time doing it right? Well see if the Texans/Brisket fans jump in.

Stogie, good catch. I hadn't picked up on that. I don't see any way that a brisket cooked at 175 can ever get to a temp above that (e.g the 185 to 195 range)...I don't understand either.

Smokin'
Smokin'

I KNEW I'd get a rise outta you on that one! LOL! Get your gun, Son, cuz this Alaskan is about to do some brisket! And I ain't scared...

I also can't wait. I think beef brisket is wonderful. Beefy beef, that's what I like. Only one thing better is Sort Ribs, and they are even more expensive than brisket here. See why we eat Moose? 3 measly short ribs I can eat myself costs 8 bucks or more. And now that BBQ and tourist season is upon us the prices go up twofold!

Sorry Smokin' & Andi
Didn't mean to start a war, just pointing out most of us learn to walk before we run and MIN's recipe sounded like a marathon.

As to temp, threw the thermometer in last nights load and I am running 185 though the therostat says 175. probably because my local power runs close to 130 volts.
By the way Smokin', don't know whether you have anything to do with the recipe section of this site, but the basic "old fashioned beef brisket" recipe recommends 180 for 10 hours. oh well.

Smokin', haven't seen much in here about altitude, most food require longer cooking times and higher temps at higher altitudes, I'm literally at sea level, what ya think?

Okay, I am going to jump into this very interesting discussion with the party line on brisket. The Cookshack party line.

MIN, you really worked hard on that brisket! I am here to tell you that you can relax and let the smoker do the work.

I do not know of any way to smoke a brisket flat and get a moist product. It is a very tough, lean piece of meat, and does not lend itself to smoking unless it is attached to the -- oh, great I forgot the name of the big end of the brisket -- "big end" and is being basted by the fat from the "big end".

These smokers were designed to cook brisket. Only later did we find out that they do a great job on other stuff as well. I know this because my Dad invented them. (So no hateful remarks about Cookshack smokers or I'll cry and you'll feel real bad.)

It is so simple it is ridiculous.

1 -- Select a brisket with a fat cap.

2 -- Try to get it in the 8 - 12 lb. range.

3 -- Put some wood, about 6 - 8 oz., in the wood box.

4 -- Put the brisket in the smoker and shut the door. Do not cut the brisket to fit it in the Smokette. Just curl the end up against one side of the smoker (not the back, this will interfere with the thermostat). Make sure the side of your smoker is clean before you put the brisket against it.

5 -- Smoke cook it at 225 degrees F for about one hour per pound. This is not rocket science, and slow cooking is a forgiving process. If you leave it in a little too long, no harm done.

6 -- Do not open the door, do not worry about temperature variations, just leave it alone. Probes are fine, but do not get excited about temperature variations. They are normal. If you follow these instructions and get good brisket, then what's the point of getting all het up about temp variations?

7 -- Using the one hour per pound rule, check it when you think it is supposed to be done.

8 -- Push on the meat with your finger. If it feels nice and mooshy, it's done. If it feels hard or rubbery, leave it in for a while longer.

9 -- Take it out, let it sit for about 30 - 45 minutes, slice it against the grain. It is will be squirting juice out.

10 -- Slice it against the grain (this is very important), put it on a plate and serve it with sauce. Do not pour sauce on it.

11 -- If the flat feels a little dry or overdone, chop it up, pour some sauce on it and make sandwiches.

That's it.

I know this is very long, but I hope it helps someone with their brisket blues!

Donna

Attagirl,Donna.

Just don't tell 'em the other reason to buy that packer is so the cook can slice that deckle off there and slip it back in the CS when no one is looking.

About two or three hours later, when everyone goes home, you slip it out onto your cuttin' board,get you a cold Shiner's longneck,4 fingers of Cuervo Gold,some leftover chopped onions and japs,a little sauce on the side, put some Billy Joe Shaver in the ol' 8 track,cut you one bite at a time with your Forschner,kick back and marvel at how good the Ol' CS made ya look.

That sounds real good Donna, except one thing I've noticed is that most people out of the midwest can't FIND a packer's trim brisket (i.e. with FatCap).

I've had good success with a flat, maybe that will be my first article for the online magazine...

What is a packer's trim brisket ?

Ricky,that is the whole brisket piece.


Point and flat,untrimmed,shipped by the packer to market in a cryopac.

See, there's the point.

Outside of the "beef belt" the only briskets seem to be "flats", not the Packers Trim that includes the point and the flat.

Ricky, the names are sometimes different, but as Tom says, it's the whole thing.

If you want to see photos, go to:

Brisket 101

Smokin'

Desperado,

I don't hear much about "altitude smokin'.

As far as the "recipe section", we've comment here that the "old school" at CS used 180 (that was the preset in the commercial CS's in fact) BUT that thinking has changed.

I know Donnais upgrading the website and they're redoing recipes, but feel free to email her and let her know (Donna are you reading this)?

Smokin'