newbie questions - pork shoulder

MTGoat

If you intend for this to be pulled pork, then my answer is as follows: I set my temp at 225, sometimes 250. Consequently the time it took to cook ran from 10-13 hours to reach an internal temp of 199 degrees. But too, most of my pork butts were closer to 7-9lbs. Its not a time per pound thing because time always varies. You'll need an internal temp prob, wireless is best. Pork is "done" way before 199 degrees, but you have to go past merely done, in order to melt away the fat and calogen/sp. That makes it pulled pork instead of a ham. Regardless of weight, pull it out at 199 deg, let it sit maybe 15 minutes and start shredding it with two forks. Have salt and pepper on hand and try not to eat too much of it while you are "preparing" it for your guests.

I just re-read your questions. I never brined a pork shoulder roast, aka picnic roast aka pork butt. As for rub, I put the rub on the night before and let it sit in the fridge,wrapped in saran wrap, until I got up at 5-6am and put it in the 009,since it takes close to 12 hours, that means dinner is probably around 5-6pm.

Hope that helps get you started.

Thanks.

When I went to sent things up tonight, I discovered that the shoulders are bigger than I thought (more like 6-7 lbs. Since this is just my second time with my new smoker, I decided to risk less meat and I cut one in half. So, this time, I'm only cooking about 3- 4 lbs of meat.

I'm planning to leave it in brine overnight. Then tomorrow night, I'll apply the rub. When I cook, I guess that I will start it early on the 4th, using a remote thermometer. It seems pretty safe to assume that it will be by some time in the afternoon. Right?

Any advice on how much wood to use?

I would recommend two oz. And something mild like apple, or cherry etc.

I wouldn't cut it in half, you won't have much meat. Remember, you're going to lose about half the weight once you're done. So you'll only have 1 1/2 - 2 lb of meat, enough for 4-5 people maybe. I never brine my butts. Give them a good thick coating of rub, throw in the fridge for a couple of hours then into the smoker.

I'd use a couple good size chunks of wood, 3-4oz maybe.

AndyJ,
You are right. I won't have much meat left. However, that is a good thing. This is a learning exercise. My wife is in Mongolia for 6 weeks. So, it will be just me eating whatever comes from this practice run.

The nice thing about my wife being gone is that I get to experiment without having her assessing the results. (She is a gourmet cook.) For example, on Saturday, I was able to throw away the salmon that had been over-smoked without any qualms.

Rick

MikeC,
I was figuring to use hickory. I do have alder. In the past, I experimented with apple and cherry and wasn't crazy about the flavor.

Would you recommend alder over hickory?

Rick

I'm with you on the stronger smoke flavor, it was my family that preferred the milder wood. One thing to remember is that because hickory is stronger you should use a little less. Seriously, everything I used 4oz of wood on came out so strong as to be a waste. If the flavor is too smokey it will taste bitter. That said, and since this is a bona fide "experiment" with no witnesses, I'd use the hickory and I'd use 3 oz. In the end I think you'll prefer 2oz, but you won't know what you like until you give it a try. So, hickory at 3oz would be my recommendation.

Just as an idea or tutorial, you might watch this youtube and see one guys approach to pork butts...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...H_Is&feature=related

MikeC,
Thank you very much for the advice. This isn't my first smoker, but the Cookshack is so different, that it is like being a total novice. It's fun to learn and also nice to be able to do it "without witnesses"

Rick

Good luck. Post back how it went, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Mike

Will do. Although pictures will be a challenge. I let my wife take my camera with her to Mongolia. Now, I have her camera, but that is worthless (without a memory card, since I gave her that one too). I may be able to get an old camera to work. If so, I'll post pictures.

No matter how it turns out, it's nice to be able to go to school on this without the pressure of having to get it good enough to serve to family or friends.

You'll do fine, PB is one of the easiest things to make. Don't be concerned when the temp stalls at the 160-170 mark for a few hours. It's normal, temp will begin to quickly rise after it gets out of the plateau.

AndyJ,
Thanks. I plan to put the rub on tonight and start it smoking in the morning.

Rick

Smokin' has taught some of us that a person wants to know the salt content of a rub if he is gonna use it on pork and put it on for an extended time. Most cooks believe if the rub has too high of a salt content it will cause the pork to start curing, which could leave a "hammy" flavor....just a thought!

My question is the same as Cal's... where did you get the idea that you needed to brine a butt? Most people (I think) just put rub on the butt prior to smoking so the salt in the rub doesn't give it a 'hammy' taste. Brining it would for sure give it that taste. Just my $.02

Oh, and don't forget to serve it with some of Smokin's vinegar mop. Excellent stuff.

Put the rub on an hour before you intend to smoke the butt. During that hour the rub will get very moist allowing you to add more rub just befor you smoke it to create an even better bark.

I really don't remember where I got the idea that I needed to brine a butt. Maybe they said it in the class a couple of weeks ago. Maybe I assumed that since I have brined everything I've ever put in a smoker, that I needed to do it to a butt. Whatever the reason, it's done now.

I just had an idea. Since I only brined 1/2 of the butt and froze the other 1/2, I could thaw the half that wasn't brined and smoke it at the same time. That way I can compare the results and see which I prefer.

Interesting. All butts I've ever bought were sealed in a bag that had a liquid solution, like a brine. Let us know how it turns out.

I bought these at Costco. They were in a sealed bag, but no liquid at all. Also, another indication that they weren't brined is that there wasn't a list of ingredients. I'm told that is mandatory if anything has been added to the meat.

I will definitely let you know.

Rick

quote:

Originally posted by Mike C
Interesting. All butts I've ever bought were sealed in a bag that had a liquid solution, like a brine. Let us know how it turns out.

I personally will not cook an enhanced PB if I can keep from it, but to each his own.

I agree about "enhanced" meat. My butt has been smoking for almost 9 hours. It's been stuck on the plateau for about 4 hours. It's finally starting to move again.

The weather couldn't be much better. It's been in the mid-90s all day.

I am concerned that the drain hole got plugged. Hardly anything has dripped out. I had more last week when I did a salmon fillet.

Let us know how it turns out. It's hard to time. You may be eating dinner at 10 tonight. I would love to know how that brined one comes out. I have never seen a butt brined. Just a loin and it tells you it has a **% solution added.

The meat sould make good leftovers. Try using Smokins finishing sauce to store the pulled meat with. Read his pork butt 101, the recipe is in there. I would open the smoker to make sure your grease isn't accumulating, ou could start a fire.

Enjoy your experimenting.
Vicki

Vicki,
Thanks. I just took the 2 pieces out of the smoker. I resisted the temptation to sample. They are now "resting" for a few minutes. Beans are ready. Baked potato is in the microwave. Didn't do slaw 'cause it's just me and slaw doesn't hold well.

Some of the meat will go into the leftover beans.

There was no grease in the bottom of the smoker.

All I can say is that perhaps Costco butts may be too lean. Too lean? Don't our doctors tell us that that there isn't such a thing?

So, it looks like I'll be eating at 7:30. (I was starting to think that I'd have to resort to Chinese take out.)

I still have to weigh them and take pictures (Mike C's suggestion).

I love my wife and miss her, but I sure am glad that she isn't here while I'm learning the ropes of this new smoker. (It is totally different - better - than my old one.)

As to too lean a butt,that is what this generation's demand dictates.The market hogs,are leanbut shoulders will still average about 80%/20% lean/fat.

The grocers say that since we can't cook the new pork,they will add that 12%-18% saltwater to give us a better cooking product.Of course ,their bottomline improves dramatically.
Single butts may not be marked and the market manager probably won't know.
Ask to see the shipping case and it often will tell you.

If you are cooking slo/lo,depending on your relative humidity,you may not see much drippings from a single butt.

MtGoat

Well? Inquiring Minds Want to Know.
What do you think? How was the brined butt? Since there was talk of too lean, did it turn out noticeably moister (is that a word?) than the other? Did they both fork shred easily? What temp did you take them up to? And remember, no matter how bad you may think something turned out, the dog will eat all of it. And, with no evidence, it never happened.

Yes, please share! By the way, Smokins finishing sauce and a slathering of your fav BBQ sauce makes just about any pull tastes better/edible, but then again, it is a tasty meal for the closest dog/wild animals, haha

OK, here is the latest. I was going to wait until tomorrow to post. That's when I plan to do a taste test in the office. I will still post the results of that afterwards.

I cooked for 10 1/2 hours. It was stuck on the plateau for nearly 4 hours in the 170 - 174 range. It was interesting to see the temp actually go down at times.

I cooked them to 197. Then rested for 30 minutes.

And the results are... (drumroll please)

Brining pros:
The meat was much more moist. It wasn't just a small difference.

I think that the brined meat was a little more tender. It pulled easily - perhaps a tiny bit easier than the other butt, but not significant.

Brining cons:
The bark was extremely salty. Water was probably drawn to the surface, bringing the dissolved salt with it. Then the salt was left behind when the water evaporated.

Both were quite good. In the end, I feel that brining produced a slightly better product.

The final verdict will have to wait until tomorrow. I am planning to do a blind taste test in the office. That is, I won't tell people which was brined and which wasn't, until they tell me what they think of them.

As for feeding it to the dog - not going to happen. We don't have any dogs at the moment. Sure would have been nice to have one around yesterday to clean up the stuff that fell on the floor.

OK, the polls have closed and the ballots have been counted. I had my co-workers grade the pull pork based on moisture, tenderness, and flavor. Here are the scores (on a scale of 1 - 5 with 5 being the best).
Unbrined Brined
Moisture 2.6 4.4
Tenderness 3.0 4.6
Texture 3.6 4.6
Flavor 4.0 4.8

There you have it. As you can see, brined was the hands down winner.

Only one of these people is BBQ savy. I didn't tell them what the difference was until that had done their scoring.

In the future, I will probably continue to brine my butts. However, I will experiment with the length of time that leave the meat in the brine. This time was over 12 hours and it was a little bit saltier than I would have preferred.

Ouch, that post lost my formatting. Here are the numbers a different way.

Unbrined
Moisture 2.6
Tenderness 3.0
Texture 3.6
Flavor 4.0

Brined
Moisture 4.4
Tenderness 4.6
Texture 4.6
Flavor 4.8

quote:

Originally posted by Mtgoat:
Ouch, that post lost my formatting. Here are the numbers a different way.

Unbrined
Moisture 2.6
Tenderness 3.0
Texture 3.6
Flavor 4.0

Brined
Moisture 4.4
Tenderness 4.6
Texture 4.6
Flavor 4.8

Mtgoat,

I too am in CO (Littleton) and use the Costco boneless 2 pack shoulders. There's no enhancement to them at all. Just straight shoulders. Sometimes they cut off too much of the fat cap, but it's not bad. I've got two going right now in a Smokette (the old one with the dial - no digital) for my wife's office pot luck today. About 16 lbs total.

I rub em up right before I smoke em (no brining) and put them in with lots of hickory. (like 3 oz per butt or so). I like the bite of the extra wood since it doesn't dig too deep into the meat. Don't really weight the wood, just throw in some chunks that fit the smoke box. I use either the Spicy BBQ sauce dry mix as a rub or smoking-meat.com's rub (a little sweeter but tastes really good). I also always make the Cookshack Spicy BBQ sauce as it's awesome.

I do the butts overnight at about 210 or so (my dial doesn't exactly match up with the internal smoker temps.) I'm kinda guessing.

I let em go for about 17 hours or so and they come out at about 195-200 degrees or so. Foil, towel & cooler them for hours so I never have waiting guests. They still come out of the foil too hot to pull and are always juicy. Bark is not super dry since they were in the foil for so long but it's enough that when pulled, it's definitely there and a bit chewy, which I like.

Experimenting on the time since 17 hours might be too much. But I('m liking the results so maybe no changing needed. Other than King Soopers (where are you in CO?), I can't find butts anywhere. And Sooper's is pretty pricy compared to Costco, at least the last time I looked. But at least they have bone in. Haven't tried one since I've been out here since I moved from IL in 2010. I'm also going to try brining them ala Alton Brown but haven't had a chance to.

mt,

I looked for but didn't see (did I miss?) how you brined it. Being something of a fan of brining, I just don't think it's the best course, given the size and duration that would be needed.

Was it the 4lb size? How much brine, what concentration and how long?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SmokinOkie:
mt,

I looked for but didn't see (did I miss?) how you brined it. Being something of a fan of brining, I just don't think it's the best course, given the size and duration that would be needed.

I went to a cooking class yesterday called "Pork Trifecta!". It focused on making your own sauces (Tomato, Mustard, and Vinegar). The Chef brined the butts we eventually got to taste and boiled the brine to use in all 3 of the sauces. He said it was ok to share so here it is:

BRINE FOR PORK:

3 Cups White Vinegar
2 Quarts Water
1/4 Cup Salt
3 Tablespoons Tobasco
3 Bay Leaves
1/4 Cup Whole Black Peppercorns
1/2 Cup Honey

Directions

In a large sauce pan bring all ingredients to a boil. Once dissolved cool and place pork in brine overnight.

He then poured off the brine (saving for the sauces) and used a dry rub (no injecting).

Everything was good although I will try White/Cider Vinegar 50/50.

Smokin Okie,
I've been slow to respond because I needed to find the brine recipe. However, I haven't had any luck. It was pretty basic. It just used a bunch of salt and some brown sugar. I didn't use my old standby recipe that uses half the spices in the kitchen, in addition to the salt and sugar.

I let it soak in the brine over night (about 10 hours). After that, I took it out of the brine and let it stand (in a plastic bag, in the refrigerator) for 24 hours. I did not rinse the meat (probably should have). Any advice?

In my experiment, the brined meat was more tender. (That's the good part.) However, it was too salty. I have to do some more experimenting. Perhaps a shorter time in the brine would help. I might try soaking in plain water after the brining to take out some of the salt.


Joe M,
Thanks for the brine recipe. That recipe is similar to the one that I refer to as my old standby. By soaking overnight, I wasn't too far off. How were the butts for saltiness?

There's really not a lot of salt in this brine. (Usual brine is 1 cup salt & 1 cup sugar in one gallon of water.) He decreased the salt in his rub too. As I said, after boiling he used the brine in his sauces. It was great!