Red Wine Salt

Very interesting. Thank you.

Interesting idea thanks for posting, I'll give it a try.

So have you dry brined with it and could you tell a difference in taste? I'm trying to get more info about how much "flavor" gets carried via brining (I have a lot of conflicting info).

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinOkie:
Interesting idea thanks for posting, I'll give it a try.

So have you dry brined with it and could you tell a difference in taste? I'm trying to get more info about how much "flavor" gets carried via brining (I have a lot of conflicting info).

Yes, when time and circumstances allow, I’ve pre-salted or dry brined for several years. And, if done properly, I can definitely tell a difference in both the taste and texture. By properly, I’m referring to time.

I first became familiar with the process around 11-12 years ago when eating the tastiest and most succulent chicken I’ve ever had at one of our favorite restaurants in San Francisco, The Zuni Café. I asked the owner, Judy Rogers, if they injected the chickens or did something else to get the result they did, and she responded by saying all that they did was pre-salt their meats, and occasionally add some herbs for additional flavor. I did some research and experimentation on the subject and have been pretty much devoted to the procedure since.

While there are some scientific complexities involved, the process itself is pretty straightforward:
1. Pre-salting (dry brining) helps promote juiciness and improves texture. It helps dissolve some of the proteins within and around muscle fibers that would otherwise resist chewing.
2. The salt initially draws moisture from the cells (osmosis) which is only temporary.
3. After a while, the cells reabsorb the moisture (reverse osmosis) which is seasoned with the flavor enhancing salt.
4. When fully absorbed the salt alters the cell structure (denaturing) whereby they become larger and able to absorb and retain more moisture during the cooking process.

The key element in the process is time, which obviously is variable depending upon the meat is being prepared. Some pre-planning is necessary, and how early I pre-salt foods is a function of their size, amount of surface area, and density or expected toughness. I would consider the times mentioned in my original post as bare minimums. The process is pretty flexible and I find that an extended rest with the pre-salt will not hurt the meat at all. It simply produces a better result.

My guess is those who have attempted the process and have dismissed it as inferior have done so for a couple reasons. First, they may become impatient and tried to shorten the process and did not allow enough time for the moisture to be pretty much fully reabsorbed into the meat. That will definitely produce a dry and tough finished product. Second, when done properly, the process will produce a succulent and tender product that, depending upon the meat, some might not be used to. As good as most might find it they may consider the mouth feel as off-putting since it is not what they would traditionally expect. An analogy here might be like comparing a good quality choice brisket to a Wagyu or Kobe style brisket. The Wagyu may be outstanding but different, and some folks just don’t like different.

While I’ve been pre-salting meat with and without herbs for quite some time, I’ve only recently been using the wine salt, and to date, I’ve only used red meats with red wine. I’ve done a number of steaks and chops as well as loins and roasts. Most recently (yesterday) I used the wine salt with cubed beef chuck that was ground for burgers once the process was completed. I’m planning on doing a brisket (flat) next weekend. Some items have been fully smoked, partially smoked, or cooked in the oven or grill. The wines used in the preparation of the salt have been good quality hearty robust ones such as cabs (Caymus, Harlan), Zins (Chase, Turley), Pinots (Selyem, Rochioli), and Malbecs (Caetana Zapata).

So, if you’re so inclined, experiment a little and give it a try. I think you’ll be surprised and pleased with the results. Just be patient.

dls,
Thanks for the very informative post. You have me thinking pork belly. I have one in the cooler now that will be ready for the cold smoker in a couple weeks. I’m thinking I would like to give the “Red Wine Salt” technique a shot next. Realizing adjustments will have to be made.

Based on a 10 – 12 pound belly.
Questions:
What wine to use. I'm thinking sweet and fruity. Maybe a Riesling. Quantity?
Brown or white sugar.
Additional herbs or spices.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Good post Dis, very informative Thanks, going to bookmark

Thanks, Mr. T and morningflyer. The wine salt is an interesting item to work with.

Mr. T - You mention pork belly which is something I haven't thought of though I suppose it's possible. I think that would depend on how the belly will be prepared and served. For a braised belly it might work fine, but other preparations might not fare to well. When you say you have a belly in the cooler waiting to be cold smoked in a couple weeks I assume you're curing it with pink salt or cure #1. If that's the case, I not certain that the wine salt would add any benefit, but I really don't know since I've never considered doing it.

Regarding the wine, I think a nice full bodied late harvest semi-sweet Spatlese or Riesling Kabinett would work very well with the belly. A Gewürztraminer or Pinot Gris should work well also.

In as far as quantity is concerned, 1 tbs. of the salt per 5 lbs. of meat is a good starting point. All you really need is a very light, but thorough, sprinkling. With experience, you'll learn to adjust a little up or down as desired.

Ther sugar in the recipe is plain granulated cane sugar. I've made a few half batches experimenting with different wines and sugars-brown, turbinado, and palm. As far as the sugars are concerned, there's not much discernible difference.

The base recipe call for thyme alone, but it's also very good in a combo which includes sage and rosemary. For pork, the inclusion of minced fennel leaves by themselves or in combination with other herbs yields excellent results.

As a word of caution, you don't want to start playing around with too many variables and lose sight of the original objective. It's pretty easy to hit a point of diminishing returns.

quote:

Originally posted by dls:
Thanks, Mr. T and morningflyer. The wine salt is an interesting item to work with.

Mr. T - You mention pork belly which is something I haven't thought of though I suppose it's possible. I think that would depend on how the belly will be prepared and served. For a braised belly it might work fine, but other preparations might fare to well. When you say you have a belly in the cooler waiting to be cold smoked in a couple weeks I assume you're curing it with pink salt or cure #1. If that's the case, I not certain that the wine salt would add any benefit, but I really don't know since I've never considered doing it.



In as far as quantity is concerned, 1 tbs. of the salt per 5 lbs. of meat is a good starting point. All you really need is a very light, but thorough, sprinkling. With experience, you'll learn to adjust a little up or down as desired.

Ther sugar in the recipe is plain granulated cane sugar. I've made a few half batches experimenting with different wines and sugars-brown, turbinado, and palm. As far as the sugars are concerned, there's not much discernible difference.

The base recipe call for thyme alone, but it's also very good in a combo which includes sage and rosemary. For pork, the inclusion of minced fennel leaves by themselve or in combination with other herbs syields excellent results.

As a word of caution, you don't want to start playing around with too many variables and lose sight of the original objective. It's pretty easy to hit a point of diminishing returns.

dls, Thanks for the response. I simply use the belly for bacon and salt pork. As for the salt used, I use basically Morton products, Pickling/Canning, Kosher, Tender Quick and Sugar Cures.
Maybe I will start out on beef and go from there. It will give me a little something else to do during the upcoming "Cabin Fever" days.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.T:
dls, Thanks for the response. I simply use the belly for bacon and salt pork. As for the salt used, I use basically Morton products, Pickling/Canning, Kosher, Tender Quick and Sugar Cures.
Maybe I will start out on beef and go from there. It will give me a little something else to do during the upcoming "Cabin Fever" days.

Beef's a good start. I've done a variety of steaks with the wine salt - rib eye, NY strip, sirloin - with excellent results. I did a prime rib that was very good but would have been better if I had left it to "cure" longer. I've also applied the wine salt to chuck which was cut up chuck into 1" cubes and later ground for burgers which were outstanding.

Is "Cabin Fever" starting to set in? Are you getting any/much snow yet?

DLS - thanks for this wonderful info. It sounds like this makes a great product to have on hand. when ou make up the salt, what do you store it in and how long have you stored it for in the fridge, or does it ever last long.

Vicki

quote:

Originally posted by Vicki B:
DLS - thanks for this wonderful info. It sounds like this makes a great product to have on hand. when ou make up the salt, what do you store it in and how long have you stored it for in the fridge, or does it ever last long.Vicki

Hi Vicki - I keep it in an airtight container in the refrigerator. You don't really need a lot per application so the quantity in the recipe is going to last a good while unless you're using it constantly. My current batch has been in the refrigerator about a month and I still have about half of it left. I guess you could hold it for at least 3 months, if not longer. That's assuming you don't finish it in the interim.

Good to know. This probably won't last long in my fridge. I would share with my neighbor as well!

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Vicki B:
Good to know. This probably won't last long in my fridge. I would share with my neighbor as well! Thanks!

You're welcome. My batch would have gone a lot faster except the 4th quarter is my busiest time of year with business travel and I'm gone more than at home.

Let me know how it works out.

Sure will.

Hello Guys i think that the best way to get rid of the red wine salt is to immediately pour white bottles over the stained area. It's a little bit sad wasting the white bottles. it really does work.Thank you!!

I find this intriguing. Are you sprinkling it on lightly or heavyily? Are you rinsing the meats before cooking?

quote:

Originally posted by Ulrich:
I find this intriguing. Are you sprinkling it on lightly or heavyily? Are you rinsing the meats before cooking?

I put a medium, but liberal, sprinkle or dusting on both sides and spread it out evenly on the surfaces. No rinsing at all. As the process completes itself most, if not all, of the salt will dissolve have been absorbed by the meat. The meat, however, will never taste overly salted. Prior to cooking it's very important to pat the meat very dry with paper towels. Otherwise, you'll initially be steaming it which is undesirable.