Setting the Tone -- Welcome the Newbies and the Lurkers

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinOkie:...I'd like to propose some changes. Let's help the newbies. If we can, give them an answer. If you think they need to do a search, you can actually do a search and then post the link to it (refine the search if possible).

Where I work 5 folks have bought CS in the last year. The main running joke about CS forum is that if you ask a question they will backhand you with "go search". To a newbie this is a little less than 'welcome'. I really do understand the "go search" reasoning but have always thought no response is more appropriate than "go search!".

Re: "Go Search": From a person that has searched this forum to the end and back(yes I know how to use advanced search )... it is sometimes the hardest place to find particular answers to seemingly simple questions. The overlapping use of common terms used here requires you sift thru an eternity of non-specific info to find what otherwise someone might provide quickly in a post reply.

Great idea Smokin'! I know I've sensed tension as some new users asked questions and were immediately slapped with "use the search/find function."

May not be a time for a changing of the guard, just adding to and shoring up the guard.

Doesn't cost a dime to answer a question with an answer. I know I've always gotten great advice here and have learned a lot. Seems the more you know about BBQ, the more there is to learn.

Sometimes FIND doesn't always get the job done. The other day I was asked to provide more info on 2 stage brisket cooking. I searched and came up empty.

Anyway, nice suggestion SO.

I agree this a great approach and more encouraging for asking for help. Should encourage lurkers to participate as well.

db

Good point Smokin.

Certainly, your idea comes across as more helpful and would encourage individuals to participate if they find a warm, friendly open environment, which it really is. I agree that sometimes the environment can be misunderstood by a newbie's initial reaction when their question is not answered, and they get directed elsewhere.

Besides, I think a lot of us would welcome even more conversation on barbecue.

I'm just throwing the concept out there, it's up to all of us to implement this.

If you see a post that's less than helpful do NOT post about it; IM me or notify me so I can address it.

Please take this to heart and try to help all that we can, any way that we can.

Smokin'

Okay Guys, I'm still a Newbie and feel that if I ever asked a question, put in the thread Newbie or 1st time, I would recieve help and THANKFULLY I have recieved help.

I guess I was doing it wrong? My best knowledge gained was old theads of FAILURES and those that helped correct the problem that was made.

The search, should be 1st thing done,IMO.

It is nice to read posts of thoughts from everyone,but I do prefer the experienced responses, so lets not stop those.PLEASE!!!

Well, I am certainly a "newbie" with very little experience but LOTS of enthusiasm and I ABSOLUTELY love this approach! I have asked questions and I have received EXCELLENT answers which I really appreciate. I have also posted a few ideas/suggestions that result in no comments or responses and that makes me wonder if I made some type of mistake. I have been reluctant to "upset the apple cart" by posting anything further. As a mostly lurker, I can still learn and I do read the posts almost daily.

Please don't get the wrong idea from my post. I am in no way complaining. There are many, many experts here and, at my age, I don't have time to become one of them. Although we newbies love what we can learn from you, participating with the experts can be intimidating. Anything you can do to soften that will go a long ways towards accomplishing what Smokin is suggesting.

So, if I said anything wrong here. let me know - I can take it.

quote:

Originally posted by BBQTom:
...I have also posted a few ideas/suggestions that result in no comments or responses and that makes me wonder if I made some type of mistake...

Good points and that's one reason I posted.

One thing to remember is that not everyone has a response to every post, so sometimes the post may never get an answer. Sometimes, it's such a great question, it's impossible to answer. It's hard to say. Some days, our forums are VERY active, other days, nothing happens.

Same goes for me. Someone asked me a question and then gave me a hard time because I hadn't responded ASAP/within 24 hours. I'll do the best I can, but on an average day I get 30 to 50 emails about BBQ and I "try" to answer them all, but more often try to point them to an answer in the forum. So be kind to your moderator too if it doesn't answer immediately. I love email and I'll answer, but it may not be immediate.

I also posted this thread to let the new guys, lurkers and everyone know that it's important to come in and ask.

I like seeing new people post, but don't like it when they've been a lurker "for years" and haven't posted.

Come on in, the water is fine. I think I can say, without exception, we don't allow negative/flaming wars to happen. I PERSONALLY won't tolerate it (and CS backs me up).

It's about BBQ and I love this stuff, love teaching this stuff and want to help.

We're here, BBQ season is coming, we'll help.

Smokin'

p.s. If ANYONE has a fear of posting, concern, whatever, you can PM me. You can also find my email address in my profile (I don't post it in the forum directly because spammers find it).

I like Smokin' read some other forums,and this and maybe ChrisA at the VirtualBullet,are operated like most folks feel comfortable.

Some forums,especially during the winter,when cooks are snowed in,can turn into war zones-even among friends.

They sometimes request these same good things from their members.

I understand that sometimes ,as we grow,change servers,companies,work Smokin' to death,searches don't always yield immediate results.

Like Smokin',I like to see everyone else answer questions,or respond to problems.When Smokin' is gone,I may be a little more active.

It seems like we may have a more active group of "newer folks" stepping up with answers/approaches.Many of them are good and come from a great perspective to a less experienced cook.I also learn from the great responses we have from all over the world.

I, personally,appreciate a post like redoak's that opens with "I have searched,but not found".

I may remember a couple threads that might give him the several approaches to solve the problem,and how they were made.No,I can't give him the one "perfect" part to a 30 part puzzle,but hopefully steer him to several pieces that he recognizes as HIS missing piece.

Cal had good thoughts that folks that opened with" I searched and I COOKED something and these were my problems/results" how do I fix them?

Cookshack's ,as they add more features, can become more expensive than a boxstore cooker and requires more of a decision to make the commitment.

I might now see a change in the requests from"newbies" that they spent "big bucks" and CS/the forum owes it to them that the cookers must follow the specifics of brain surgery equipment and that it makes the "considerable ART" of a strange part of the cooking world as simple as warming a fully cooked weiner,place on bun and add yellow mustard.

i.e. posts like,"I've never cooked anything in my life,much less thought about bbq".
"I've just ordered my cooker and supplies for about $1800,to arrive Thursday.I've already bought the poultry,brisket,ribs,picnic shoulders,and some sausages.

I've invited my two bosses[so this must be perfect] and twenty to thirty families from the neighborhood to eat on Sat.
What temp should I cook at,and how long should it take.
I'd appreciate any"secret rubs/sauces/fuel "to make this the best bbq in my area.BTW some of the folks have strange tastes and others have dietary restrictions.

I need the answers in the next few hours.Thanks.

Smokin's requests won't always be easy/simple,but one bit of info/guidance from a couple hundred lurkers is a whole lot of good knowledge.

Plus,it might prevent us from wearing Smokin' out as soon.

Now,I'll get off before someone accuses me of making a Smokin'Okie post.

I usually try to FIND the answer to my questions in old posts and sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. The main problem is that, sometimes some answers are many years old. I want to know how they are doing it today. If people are being directed all the time to look up old post then, a lot if new ideas will never be posted. A lot of the basics can be found and stand true, but I have seen plenty of topics revitalized by current information and lots of trial and error. Hey, I think we all can agree that, time can change the answer to a lot of questions. Wether you have been doing this for 20 years or 20 days, I always love to read peoples ideas. Someone with no experience can mention something that, can be a great idea or spark and even greater idea.
Personally I think it can be an adventure sometimes, diving into all these comments. The fact that, this is being talked about, shows what a great forum this is. One Idea to help out these old post that are very valuable, is to set up some kind of email notification like in Facebook. So if you made a Post/comment and someone added to it, you would get an email to let you know. Just an Idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazy Smokin Larry:
... So if you made a Post/comment and someone added to it, you would get an email to let you know. Just an Idea.

It's already there, at least what you describe above (hows that for a fast change) I'll have to look, it might only be for when you start a new thread, not when you post a reply to another thread.

At the bottom of a post, just below the text entry window, is a little flag (under a line that says "add attachment?")

Click on the box that looks like a flag and it will set notifications to "ON" You can then manage your notifications (in case you set too many) in your Personal preferences.

I too try to look up items in the find before I bring the forum into play with a question or problem. Also have found that find can be difficult at times, but have always gotten help from somebody within a short time if I need it. I try to look at the forum often through out the day and night. Good bunch of guys sharing there insight on the art of Q, hopefully I have also helped here or there and will try to continue to work through the process.

Good on you, Smokin'. I think everyone appreciates a 'real' answer.

That's a cool feature Smokin. If we read all posts to this forum, do we need to utilize the notification?

Actually, now that we're on it. I think this is one of the better organized Q forums and think the "find" feature to be valuable and not predominantly available elsewhere.

I'm a member of several other forums, a couple of which have what I call an "elitist" approach to new members who ask questions that might have been asked, and answered, many times before. They smack 'em upside the head, kick 'em in the butt, and tell 'em to use the search feature before bothering the "experts" with their ridiculous questions. I'm glad to see we practice a kinder, gentler approach here on the CS forum. The only butt we kick is pork butt, in the up direction by the liberal application of rubs and sauces. And the only thing we smack is our lips when we eat the great food that we smoke.

I would be more happy if more of the old links worked. It can be very confusing. Also many of the fractions in recipes are no longer intelligible. I like the kinder approach.

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinOkie:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazy Smokin Larry:
... So if you made a Post/comment and someone added to it, you would get an email to let you know. Just an Idea.

It's already there, at least what you describe above (hows that for a fast change) I'll have to look, it might only be for when you start a new thread, not when you post a reply to another thread.

At the bottom of a post, just below the text entry window, is a little flag (under a line that says "add attachment?")

Click on the box that looks like a flag and it will set notifications to "ON" You can then manage your notifications (in case you set too many) in your Personal preferences.

Smokin,
I see what your talking about. I never used it before. Nice. Thanks. I also see the one at the top of the post as well. How long will that last? I mean if someone made a post 5 years ago and still has the same email will they get it? The other thing that might be nice is, if you could set it and forget it, at least with post comments.

I forgot to click on it when I first posted this, I guess I will go to the top one and click on that. Thanks again.

quote:

Originally posted by Bododio:
... and tell 'em to use the search feature before bothering the "experts" with their ridiculous questions.

We're trying to be better

Keep in mind, that approach (certainly not our old practice) was elitist, it was out of necessity. Imagine being an original member of the forum and seeing the same question posted hundreds of times. It gets hard to bring up a fresh answer every time.

But no matter, we're trying to be better, so glad you joined in and told us.

We're also pretty hard on negative/flame posts, those don't work here.

First and foremost thank you to those that have answered all my post. I am also a newbie. I have been doing this for a few months. I like the forum the way it is and the people on it. There is room for improvement but it is also fine right now.

I also like getting an answer from the experts vs using the search. I have used and always use the search. Search results sometimes just make things worse. You can find so many different answers. For example, pork butt can be removed from the smoker at different temperatures. What sauce to use (sweet vs vinegar), inject, or not to inject, add rub when pulling etc, etc, etc.

In addition, I suspect not all/many do a test run before they smoke something for a gathering. For example, I did my first brisket when I had 15 people at my house. So instead of doing a test run, I expected/wanted the perfect result the first time. This means I want an expert to tell me what to do even though I read the 101 and was told do a test run first. I used search but I got to many variances in my search results, so I asked the experts.

Unfortunately I believe we will never get away from the newbie questions. We will never get away from saying
1. read the 101
2. test run first
Experts please keep answering our questions and remind us gently that the search feature is available. A direct link to another thread with the answer is even better.

One solution or maybe a way to lesson the newbie questions is to make/write a very large/detailed 101 sections or do a 101 plus a 102. However, I like the fact that Smokin keeps it simple and tells you point blank, I gave you the basics go play and learn on your own. Hopefully, I understood that correctly Smokin

This sounds stupid but many of us want instant gratification and expect it but BBQ is just not like that. You just spent a bundle of money and invited guests to your first attempt at brisket. Not smart, but I sure am not the only one who did that.

El

I am neither new or lurking, and I try to make positive contributions to this forum because I like it. If a new poster announces that he pulled a pork butt or served his first rack of ribs to his neighbors, I'll high-five him rather than leave him hanging. New people are looking for community, and a 'way to go' goes a lot farther than instructions on the search function.

As to the gentility of this forum, all proper compliments go to Smokin as Moderator. I once received an appropriate reprimand and it took a while to digest, but we are not talking politics and world news here. Differences of opinon can be informative and not necessarily argumentative. Hopefully the new poster has come across some type of smoking equipment and just wants to share the experience. We should all remember where we were instead of where we are.

I enjoy every post about the 'seasoning the smoker-first butt experience.' And I further compliment the folks at Cookshack for not limiting discussions to their brand.

Thanks, SmokinOkie, you are all right in my book

Twofer

I believe part of the frustration comes along with newbies who have varying degrees of computer "sophistication". There are those who can barely figure out how to order stuff from e-bay and need someone to set up their e-mail, while others have enough experience to "noodle" with a site and find what they want.

I would suggest a "Search 101" where you can literally hold someone's hand through a search by taking screen shots and highlighting what they need to do/where they need to go. Seems like overkill, but it's a start.

Also, if possible, it would be nice if the search results could have the option of being listed by date. It's difficult to tell how the search results get spit out from the database, but it seems random. I'm tempted to go one step further and suggest voting for threads, but that can get political, hurt people's feelings and they're all good anyhow .

quote:

Originally posted by twofer:
... I'll high-five him rather than leave him hanging. New people are looking for community, and a 'way to go' goes a lot farther than instructions on the search function.

Twofer

Well said, thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Spud V:
...I would suggest a "Search 101" where you can literally hold someone's hand through a search by taking screen shots and highlighting what they need to do/where they need to go. Seems like overkill, but it's a start.

I'll see what I can do. I'll also list a few sample searches as kind of a click it before you try it thing.

As for the date sort, it's already there. You have to use the "advance" find (to get the various options) and on that page, near the bottom is an option to sort by date. However date get's you the latest post, but not necessarily the best. 10 years of a forum, some of our old stuff is the good stuff.

That's actually why I created the "best of" forum. The posts that are good/great to me for some reason, I like to drop them in there.

Appreicate both the ideas, I'll see what I can do.

It's great to see everyone embrace the idea, so let's just keep practicing on helping.

Smokin'

One more tag on,to the help Smokin' and all of us that are asking for questions and participation.

When the question comes through,asking for the specific ,correct response to a problem,many of the forum don't have the info to help with the answer.

The other is the amount of variables in the questioner's tastes/situation and the same of the member that answers.

Sample questions could be what is a good life,what will make my neighbors like me,what do I do to pick the perfect spouse?

Thus,sometimes a thread from a line of people in the archives in this art of bbq,allows the questioner to select from the myriad of approaches that fits the specific situation.

As folks gain experience,they notice briskets,etc, may be like a jigsaw puzzle.

One person, touting one approach,may not fit the particular puzzle.

The other idea,about dating a response,is the answer from 50 years ago might still be the best one.

Kinda like the Smokette.

Just a thought,when we want that specific,correct response,quickly.

We'll all try,but please be patient,while we try to help.

I like your style. I'm a newbie but wanted to stay in the closet a little longer. Thanks for making the forum a little more inviting. So here goes:
New AmeriQue, seasoned according to directions with a fatty small picnic, actually didn't taste too bad.
Today, loin ribs from Costco. Six whole racks, cut in half. Three to each shelf, perfect fit. Three hunks of apple, 250 for 4 hrs. I wanted to get home before 4 hrs. and do the whole rack shuffle, apple juice spritz thing but got waylaid at the Drs. office and came home just as 4 hrs. was up.
Results: Gooderfectly done, tender, great smoke flavor Bad: Way too dark and on the lower shelf a little burnt. Cooked meat side down. Will serve tonight for guests, naked (the ribs), sauce on side. Whoever complains gets to cook next time.

Could use some suggestions to lighten the color up some. May have to do with the rub I used that I'll post with this. The rub is fantastic! Going to try brisket in a few days.

Rub Recipe:
2 tablespoons ground cumin
1 tablespoon chili powder
1 tablespoon dry mustard
1 tablespoon coarse salt
1 1/2 teaspoons cayenne pepper
1 1/2 teaspoons ground cardamom
1 1/2 teaspoons ground cinnamon

Enough for three whole racks so I doubled it, just the right amount.

Well,you probably answered your own question about bottom shelf-especially over the firebox.

Sugar in rubs can burn and darken,too heavy smoke can do it,but I didn't see that.Apple juice can have enough sweet to burn and darken.

Many folks don't spray,as the cooker cooks a little moist and folks open the door a couple times to let out moisture.

Pour some rub in your hand and look at the color.If it is dark,and you use much-that can darken.

Just a couple quick thoughts,so try again,take good notes about any changes you make .

Was there a reason you cooked meat down?

Not sure what you felt was too dark,but these are some steps.

Okay Guys,

This is sorrta thread jacking, BUT Smokin' said help the new!!!

My first time smoking ribs I used to many big pieces of wood. Oh well!!! I learned two smaller pieces helps with color.

Can't get enough smoke on them BPs for me!

Thanks to Tom and Cal,
I thought some of the threads said meat down, I confuse easily but I have a 50% chance of being right. Just kidding. I'm going to back off a little on the wood. We just ate and there was too much smoke for my taste. I'll lighten up on the rub too. I'm going to try 225 also and see what happens. Everyone who ate said they were very good so maybe I'm my own worst critic. Good is OK, I want them GREAT!

Jack,

Glad you dropped in.

Here's the good news, if you want GREAT, we can help.

Thanks for the recipe, but just a little suggestion.

Just a little moderator input (have to do that sometimes), because many people don't use the search function, they'll never find your recipe (certainly not in a thread on new forum ettiquite)

I just hate to see good info, and good recipes get lost, hence, the moderator

Start a new thread, if you want in rib section and title it something for people to know.

That way, you get all the credit and questions.

New guys are allow the theadjack (bad term for posting something new in another posted thread) but don't worry.

I just want you to get your information out there.

New threads aren't scary, you just have to start one and we'll join in.

Welcome again.

Smokin'

p.s. Once you start the new thread, I'll remove these items.