Skip to main content

15 replies

Smoke flavour-NO full penetration

C countrypete84Member
Hey everyone,

This is my first post, so hello to everyone. I have been lurking on here awhile and learned a lot, but now I need some advice.

Yesterday I smoked a turkey. I'll give as much detail as possible.

It was an 18 pound frozen Grad A turkey. I defrosted it. Then I made a brine. Recipe was:

1.5 gallons water
3/4 cup sea salt
1/2 cup apple cider vinegar
1/4 cup black peppercorns, which I blended into regular pepper
1/4 cup pickling spice, which I blended into a powder
1/2 cup louisana hot sauce
1 head-8-10 cloes garlic, pureed
1.5 cups brown sugar
1/2 cup molasses
8 bay leaves crushed finely
Juice of a fresh squeezed lemon

I heated the brine until boiling, cooled it, and placed in a 16 quart (4 gallon/16 litre-I am Canadian-pot. Placed defrosted turkey in brine. It didn't cover turkey, leaving about 1/4 of turkey uncovered. I placed lid on pot. I turned turkey over every 12 hours so each side would get covered in brine. I brined a total of 48 hours.

I placed 3.15 ounces (used a digital scale to weigh) of small pieces of apple, pecan, cherry wood in my Smokette Elite 025 Digital smoker. I had the rack on the bottom rack position (there are 2 rack positions that come standard with the smoker).

I took turkey out of brine, didn't rinse it, just drained it. I used an injector to inject brine into 4 spots in each breast, two spots each leg, 2 spots each wing. I melted 1 pound salted butter and soaked two packages of cheese cloth in butter. I placed cheesecloth on top of turkey in layers.

I placed turkey in the cold smoker, closed door, set temperature to 225 degrees and smoked for 2.5 hours. I then turned up the heat to 250 degrees and cooked an additional 5 hours for a total of 7.5 hours. When I took the turkey out of the smoker, the heat still didn't get above 230 degrees. I never once opened the door during the cooking process.

I only planned on smoking it 6 hours but I fell asleep as smoking at night for work potluck today, and cooked too long, so the white meat was a bit dry, my own fault. White meat was 170, but didn't take dark meat temperature (though dark meat still moist as more fat content).

Here are my issues I need help with:
-It didn't taste properly brined. My dad smokes turkey using an old school wood box smoker and smokes 12 hours and his turkeys taste way more brined, almost like ham and are more pink throughout. It tasted more like regular turkey. His brine is the one I used,though he uses 3/4 cup of salt per gallon of water and I used 1.5 gallons water and didn't increase salt amount. Also, the turkey wasn't completely covered, I had to turn it in the pot with brine every 12 hours for a total of 48 hours brining.

Question: Could not having the turkey totally covered (about 1/3 of turkey left uncovered at any one point) lead to improper brining?

Issue Two:
-Smoke flavour was not strong enough. Outer meat had smokey flavour, inner meat not really that detectable.

I used 3.15 ounces of wood, as weighed digitally on my scale, made up of apple, cherry, pecan. I used wood pieces, they were small though, but not wood chips. I checked this morning that about 90 percent of the wood was reduced to ash. Smoke was coming from the smoker for at least the first 5 hours (I fell asleep after that).

Question:
Could placing the cheesecloth on the bird right away prevent smoke from penetrating the turkey? Should I use more wood, and if so, what amount in ounces? Should I use a different type of wood? I have apple, cherry, pecan, mesquite (a no-no for poultry I read), and hickory.

Next Question:
Should I smoke first without cheesecloth and add later? Do I need to add cheesecloth at all if I don't care about presentation? I just want a juicy, smokey bird.


Turkey, TAKE TWO:

I am smoking a turkey for Christmas Eve for the family. It is 12 pounds and I defrosted it.

I made the same brine recipe, except I increased the salt from 3/4 cup sea salt to 1 1/4 cup and used 2 cups brown sugar and 1/4 cup molasses. Everything else in brine recipe unchanged. I put turkey in small garbage bag, double bagged. I poured in brine, used straw to suck out air, tied bag, tied bag, placed 2 litre water bottle on top to ensure totally submerged. I will be brining 48 hours until I have to smoke.

What should I try to do to get the turkey more smokey in flavour?

I think I fixed the brining issue for flavour/moisture.

I know cooking time using 225 will be about 3.5-4 hours, but will check with digital thermometer inserted into white/dark meat.

Outside temperature is about 42F/5C and rainy.

I know this was long, but I am detail oriented. Your help is appreciated.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

G gqueMember
1. Get a cheap digital thermo for Target ($15) and check calibration on ice water (32 deg) and boiling water (212 deg). Then use that thermo to check oven thermo to set how accurate.

2. Your father's stick burner will introduce a lot more smoke than cookshack. So your tastebuds would probably be desensitze to light smoke.

3. To get the pinkish color in the bird try adding a little pink salt to brine.
P pagsMember
You didn't use enough salt for 1.5 gallons. 3/4 cup is the minimum for 1 gallon. Also, the bird should be totally submerged. If 1/3 was showing and you brined it evenly then you effectively cut the brine time by 1/3.

I don't leave the cheesecloth on for the whole smoke. I remove it with 1-1.5 hrs left so the turkey is exposed to heat and smoke.

If skin is a concern, smoke at 275-300* to get a more edible skin. I did my 20 lb bird at 300* all the way...3 hrs.

I think 3.15 oz of wood is plenty for poultry, but if you want a stronger smoke flavor switch to hickory or throw another oz or 2 of the pecan or apple into the smoker. If you want 4.5 oz of wood and use 3 types of wood, have wood chunks no smaller than 1 oz (at 90% ash, you effectively had no smoke towards the end of the cook...pieces may have been too small). Also, remove cheesecloth towards the end.
Last edited by pags
cal 2cal 2Member
I'm no EXPERT on brining like Smokin', but he has taught me that you have to account for ALL the liquids when using a brining ratio...so you were just soaking/marinating with the solution, at best.

You want smoke flavor?...just add more wood, these CS's will produce as much smoke as you want, but it still may not penetrate to deep.

Yes the bird has to be totally submerged in the solution, put a baggie of ice on top to hold the bird down.

Personally, I'd cook at 275* and open the door a couple times towards the end. This will dump the moisture, but will also make the element stay on more...that seems to help with poultry.

Oh, make sure you don't get the smokers internal probe stuck to the turkey.

Almost forgot to ask, was your turkey enhanced and if so how much solution???
FM Former Member
quote:
Originally posted by cal:
..

You want smoke flavor?...just add more wood, these CS's will produce as much smoke as you want, but it still may not penetrate to deep.

...


Bingo. Oh, and don't use fruit woods, they'll be lighter than the others. Stick with the pecan.

If your father is smoking turkey 12 hours, he's oversmoking it and that's a flavor it's hard to replicate (but with practice you can).

Yes, you can leave the cheesecloth off (although it's not affecting the smoke). Put it on when the bird LOOKS like you want, if you want some pretty looking turkey skin.

No need for the pickling salt, that actually is affecting your dad's brine too as it is a salt. His sounds like it's cured, especially if you're saying it's "hammy tasting". And enhanced birds (XX%solution added) will also make it taste that way. Your dad may be buying those too.

Me? I don't want my turkey tasting like ham but if you do, we'll try to help replicate that taste.

You can smoke it longer, with more wood and try to replicate it OR

Make your own recipe and see if it might actually be better.
C countrypete84Member
Thanks for all the great tips everyone, I really appreciate the advice.

The turkeys we buy are not enhanced at all, just turkeys frozen with nothing added. Also, the pickling spice isn't salt, it's just a mixture of spices, including cloves, bay leaves, etc, I confirmed on the package itself.

Good point about the wood, I will do half hickory and half pecan. I was scared to use more wood as I have read poultry can get an acrid flavour from too much smoke. Do you think 4-5 ounces of wood would be good to try?

Good to know the cheesecloth won't affect smoke, I will keep it on as I really liked the browning effect it gave the last turkey.

Smokin' Okie, you make a good point. I have never had smoked turkey other than what my dad makes and I would say it is more cured as it is quite "hammy" tasting. But that doesn't mean I can't make a product that's equally as good, or better, but it'll just be different.

Hopefully now I have the correct salt amount, and I have put the latest turkey in a big bag, sucked out the air, and placed a 2 litre water bottle on top to make sure it's fully submerged.

As for the temperature, I find my cookshack tends to cook on the hotter side, so I don't think I want to increase the temperature beyond 225.

Should I place the turkey in a preheated or cold smoker? I thought if I place it in the smoker cold that while it begins to heat and smoke the bird will cook slower at first and more smoke will get into the bird.

Cal-When you say to open the door to dump the moisture, in what way does it help with the turkey? Does it help give more oxygen to keep the wood smoking longer?

I will post my results and pics as well. I will be smoking the turkey tomorrow night, after a full 48 hours of brining.

Lastly-MERRY CHRISTMAS!
cal 2cal 2Member
To me, it seems that the electric smokers are just to moist, you don't get the drying effect that a wood burner does on the surface/bark. While the opening of the door helps a little it doesn't get the same/identical effect... but hey at least I feel like I'm trying...lol!

No rule against adding wood later in the cook if you want to!

G Que had a good point about adding a little Tender Quick to your brine if you think the pink effect is needed. Start with one tablespoon on a 48 hr brine.
C countrypete84Member
SmokinOkie- I was looking at your brining recipe in Turkey 101 and it calls for 1 cup salt and 3/4 soy sauce per gallon water.

The latest brine I made used 1 1/4 cup sea salt, (my dad uses sea salt and likes it),1.5 gallons water, 1/2 cup apple cider vinegar, 2 cups brown sugar, 1 head pureed garlic, 1/2 cup hot sauce (which also has a bit of salt), pickling spice (not salt in it), bay leaves crushed, 1/4 cup molasses. Should I add more salt or some soy sauce now, as do you think it's not enough salt?

And I think I will try adding some more wood halfway through the smoke.
C countrypete84Member
No worries Pags, you were being helpful and I appreciate the advice.

So I opened the bag, added 3/4 cup of soy sauce to the brine tonight. This turkey has been completely submerged and I put a heavy bottle on top to make sure total coverage. Will the turkey taste soya-saucy? Anyways, should be enough salt now. 1 1/4 cups salt, 3/4 cup soya, 1.5 gallons water.

I am going to cook with cheesecloth for colouring, use 4.5 ounces of pecan/hickory mix and smoke at about 220 for 3.5-4 hours.

I'll post pics too. Thanks everyone for the help.
C countrypete84Member
Turkey Results:

So I took the 12 pound bird out of the brine after 48 hours, drained it, but did not rinse it.

I was out of butter so I just soaked the cheesecloth in the brine and put it over the turkey.

I put the turkey into the smoker cold, added 4.35 ounces wood total (half pecan, half hickory)

Set the temperature in my Smokette Elite 025 Digital to 200. Smoked for 2.5 hours ( I figured more smoke gets into the bird before the pores of the meat start to close due to cooking. Then turned heat up to 225 for 2 hours. At this point, I checked the temperature and the thigh and breast were both 140 degrees, and juices running clear. Obviously the bird wasn't done, that was probably just brine coming out, and when I pulled on the legs there was still a lot of resistance. So I turned the heat up to 250 and cooked for 50 minutes longer.

Temperature in both thigh and breast were almost identical at 150 degrees. I took out at this point because I am going to take the turkey to a Christmas Eve dinner tonight and finish in the overn at 350 for 1 hour, which should bring it up to the desired temps. The colouring was nice due to the cheesecloth.

I did try a small piece of the dark meat from the botton and it was delicious; perfect smoke flavour (as in strong, just the way I like it), and the salt flavour was very good and moist!

Thank you all for the advice, it made my second attempt much more successful.

Add Reply

Post

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×