Prime Rib

Glad it turned out so great. I've done this rib roast recipe to great success. It is a take off from Smokin's Prime Rib 101 with reverse searing in the oven. Only way I do a prime rib anymore. Great flavor, smoke, sear, and medium rare.

Cooking low and slow seems to be the key to both our techniques.

Rich,

Moved this to the Prime Rib Forum.

Thanks for sharing. Successful PR stories always take away some of the scary factor for people wanting to try one.

Yup, we've talked about the dreaded "gray" ring in PR. It's because Chef do it in such a hot oven AND they sear the outside first, they'll never get away from it.

Smoke it low and slow (doesn't have to be a low as 140) and do the reverse sear and it works like a charm.

I take mine out around 110 and then put it in a hot smoker or grill to get the sear and I pull it when it reaches 120 (carryover takes it to 125)

Hey guys. I was wondering if cooking at such a low temp keeps the PR in the danger zone too long?

It's been a while since I've posted and I didn't realize there was a forum devoted to prime rib.

Padrefan98- I'm not sure what you mean by the "danger zone", but it was only on for nine or ten hours and nobody had any ill effects. How many weeks are good steaks aged?

All I can say is that cooking it at 140 degrees over several hours produced a roast as tender as any I have ever had and this was a basic generic grocery store rib roast as opposed to an expensive aged meat market roast.

It's the outside of the prime rib that needs to hit 140*, and it hits that temp fairly quickly. Remember, internally some of us never take the temp much higher than 125*. Chopped meats, sausages, foul...now that's a different thing.

I agree with Smokin that the temp doesn't have to be as low as 140*. Start at 180* then kick it to 235*. Then reverse sear to finish it nicely.

Latest ServSafe guidelines list the danger zone at 41 to 135.

And "technically" MR Prime Rib is in the Danger zone because it's below 135.

And "technically" a "roast" has to be cooked to 145. (and there are alternative temps listed depending on how long it's at that temp. Lowest temp is 130 degrees for 112 min.)

So "technically" we should not eat PR.

So "technically" I say tough, that's how I'm eating it because I control my cooking and I'm less worried about a PR that I purchase in a full cryovac and age myself.

Thanks for explaining the technical aspects of the danger zone. I am not so concerned either eating prime rib that never gets above 125. What I was concerned about was having a PR in a smoker for 9 hours that never gets above 125.

quote:

Originally posted by PadreFan:
What I was concerned about was having a PR in a smoker for 9 hours that never gets above 125.

Mine takes about 5 hrs or so of smoking and I wouldn't think of doing it any other way.

While I'm not a technical person, as Smokin' was pointing out, the theory is that a USDA graded whole muscle is a sterile muscle and should not have any bad stuff in it to grow in the danger zone.

Some of us ole' tough/stupid cooks believe that the smoking of a piece of meat will help keep bad stuff from growing. Seems our forefathers used their smoke house to help keep meat from going bad.

Too each his own, and I will continue to enjoy a good piece of PR slow smoked, it does leave the meat very tender.

quote:

Originally posted by cal:

While I'm not a technical person, as Smokin' was pointing out, the theory is that a USDA graded whole muscle is a sterile muscle and should not have any bad stuff in it to grow in the danger zone.

That is true, unless you put a probe in meat before the outside of the meat reaches 140. Because you push the probe through the outside, this transfers any pathogens on the outside of the meat to the inside.

So, if you are cooking it below 140°, probe it after the outside is at 140° to be safe.

Serv-Safe Certified "Kitchen Food Safety Manager"
Wayne B

WayneB is correct and one should be concerned about such matters. What one could do to be extra safe as many of us probe our roast before cooking is, clean your probe in your bleach sanitizer container and dry with a sanitized cloth or towel. With a flambé torch, heat the area that is going to be probed until starting to brown then, insert probe. Do I do that? No, I go along with Smokes train of thought. Stopping for a moment to think about it though, I must live on the edge because, I eat runny eggs too.
Mr. T

If the probe does pick up baddies from the exterior as we insert it into raw meat, then the first quarter inch of the meat must wipe the probe clean...preventing baddies from getting to the interior thus exposing them to the higher temps at the outside portions of the meat. Otherwise, a lot of us that probe raw meat would have been sick by now. Just a thought.

My apologies to the OP for the thread-jack. I only want my food to be the safest for my friends and family. I want to try this method and that's why I asked.

I just can't get past the idea of 9 hrs at 125. Would you leave your PR on the porch in the Mohave Desert for 9 hrs?

Very nice job, RichW. I've been doing PRs, and other roasts, like this for years. Nothing like the success of having the meat a even and perfect medium rare from center to edge. I start out with the roast at room temperature and a pre-heated smoker (or oven) at around 180F. Take it to an IT of 115F-120F, then foil and rest for 30 minutes. Then it goes into an oven (or grill) pre-heated at 550F for 5-7 minutes. Perfect every time.

I met a chef in France 30+ years ago that advocated cooking meat with the oven temp set at the target finish internal temp. It sort of made sense to me at the time, but a couple people in our group were skeptical. To prove his point, the chef offered to do a demo meal at his restaurant's kitchen. He cooked 2 of the same roasts in an identical manner except for the oven temps. I don't recall all of the specifics, but the first roast cooked at the target internal temp finished in around 20 hours. He had his timing down, and second roast, cooked at a much higher temp, hit the same IT as the first in around 4 hours. After resting under foil for awhile, he carved slices of each roast to sample, and we were all astounded by how superior the first was in as far as taste and texture were concerned. The chef made a believer of me and, though not as quite extreme as he was, I've been low and slow ever since.

When I first read of the "Danger Zone" a few years ago, I figured that I, as well as my family and many friends, should be dead as victims of my cooking habits. I did some research on the subject, and while I found some recommendations and guidelines from the USDA, FDA, etc., I never found any hard scientific evidence to back it up. I assumed it existed somewhere, but was unwilling to waste the time finding it. I'm also a believer that recommendations to the general public by governmental agencies regarding matters such as this are on the very conservative side 100% of the time. I also believe that the conservative nature of the recommendations stems, in part, from the fact that, while Americans are large consumers of meat, the vast majority of what they eat comes from huge, and industrialized, producers, processors, and distributors that have a high exposure and potential for health issue breakdowns somewhere along the chain.

So, having satisfied myself that I am OK, I've chosen to continue what I have been doing for years (decades).

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
I did some research on the subject, and while I found some recommendations and guidelines from the USDA, FDA, etc., I never found any hard scientific evidence to back it up. I assumed it existed somewhere, but was unwilling to waste the time finding it

You mean like USDA dropping the finish temps for whole pork last summer, when the fine cooks on here had been teaching us that light years before? I'm sure it was just an oversight....LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.T:
I must live on the edge because, I eat runny eggs too.
Mr. T

Now that's just crazy

Wayne B

quote:

Originally posted by cal:

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
I did some research on the subject, and while I found some recommendations and guidelines from the USDA, FDA, etc., I never found any hard scientific evidence to back it up. I assumed it existed somewhere, but was unwilling to waste the time finding it

You mean like USDA dropping the finish temps for whole pork last summer, when the fine cooks on here had been teaching us that light years before? I'm sure it was just an oversight....LOL!

Back in the day when lots of hogs rooted for their food it was a big issue. Now that hogs are fed in feed lots and are not rooting through trash to eat, Ptomaine poisoning isn't as big an issue.

And you do have to remember, very little meat that is kept at a proper cold temp has much bad bacteria on it to begin with.

Wayne B

quote:

Originally posted by WayneB:
Back in the day when lots of hogs rooted for their food it was a big issue. Now that hogs are fed in feed lots and are not rooting through trash to eat, Ptomaine poisoning isn't as big an issue.

And you do have to remember, very little meat that is kept at a proper cold temp has much bad bacteria on it to begin with.

While I'm not a hog farmer, I do know a few. It is my understanding that hogs are raised and finished in the crates, as you said, they do not come in contact with each other ,so the spread of Trichinosis was done away with by these means.

The down side of it is we have much leaner hogs, so the flavor is not as it once was.

Local farms here still use pens, but the hogs aren't eating garbage like they us to.

I remember as a kid in the summer going out and slopping the hogs after dinner on my grand fathers farm. We'd give them all the left overs from the days meals. They loved the watermelon rinds.

Wayne B

Yeah, they won't eat a cucumber though! Not many pens around here but long buildings with many farrow crates.

When I was a boy they were used more around here to run on the ridges, they have a way of killing/eating copperheads and rattle snakes.

This has turned into a really interesting discussion and I've certainly learned a few things, so thanks for all the input.

I just picked up a Safeway Rancher's Reserve rib roast today for another attempt this weekend. Safeway has rib eyes on sale this week in the Denver area and they cut a roast out of the center of a full rib roast for me for the sale price.

I have always been a little suspect of Safeway's "Rancher's Reserve", because I'm used to the USDA grading system and wasn't sure where Rancher's Reserve was on that scale.

I did a little research and found a very interesting article on Safeway's brand that gave me new respect for their meats. Here is the link:

http://beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_love_tender