Brisket experts please review this as a Brisket Rub

Looks like you're in the ballpark. The cayenne might make it a little too hot for your first attempt but thats just my taste buds.

Keep notes of your recipe and adjust it to suit yourself first. In time, you'll hit on a rub that just might be a real crowd pleaser.

Most important is to have fun and enjoy yourself.

quote:

Most important is to have fun and enjoy yourself.

I second that.

Wear latex gloves !

Hey, Danger, saw your post in BBQ Search too

Think you have a great start. Don't know if I'm an expert (given my run of Brisket scores this year) but our friends like our stuff.

For me, Pepper is a KEY to Texas briskets. A more tranditional rub might cut your pepper to 1/4 cup

I like more onion power

1/4 c of garlic "might" be much, but it depens on the brand and how much you like it. I like granulated garlic, it holds up better, powder seems to loose it punch

One thing missing is sugar. I like to add about 1/2 cup of brown sugar to the rub. You can dry it first or just use the Brownulated Sugar.

You forgot dried bean powder. You have to have BEANS. That's what makes Texas chili the best....Right?! LOL.

thanks to all I ended up going with the recipe I posted at the last minute I changed my mind on a few things like a little less salt more cumin less hot and I mixed about 1/2C of the mix and mixed it with the yellow mustard , Worcestershire and jalapeño juice to make a paste rub worked well should have put it on the day before will next time.I use my brisket to make my chili but there is never beans involved .

Going to smoke my first brisket and would like some of you to let me know where my thinking is screwed up. I normally do all this type of cooking of meat in flavored brazing liquid. low and slow. Let me list my thoughts on how I would do it in an Amerique smoker just of the cuff:

Trim a chose brisket, apply plenty of cracked pepper, sea or kosher salt, brown sugar and grill seasoning.

Place brisket (fat cap up?) on top of large cut pieces of apples or onions (stand-off grate may be needed due to apples may collapse after a while) in a disposable foil pan with some beef stock and apple cider in the bottom. (Liquid not touching the brisket) maybe placing 10 sprigs of rosemary in the bottom?

Place in smoker uncovered at 225 degrees with 6 OZ of ??? wood with three charcoal chunks for 12 hours, uninterrupted. After 12 hours, open door to check on meat, add more liquid and baste if needed. Insert wire probe and set probe temp to 180 degrees.

When smoker chimes the bell to notify brisket is at 180 degrees. Add more liquid if needed in bottom and baste. Cover brisket around pan tightly and leave in for another hour. Maybe turn the heat down to around 190 degree?

Remove and hopefully after doing a dance, a little praying and throwing salt over your shoulder it should be fine......

What you think...

No offense, but it sounds like you want some kind of pot roast. If that's the case, go for it. The whole idea of bbq brisket is low and slow and smoke. Sitting in a liquid, the smoke is not going to penetrate the meat all that well. The liquid might make a gravy with smoke flavor, but then again you're talking pot roast.

Personally, I'd rub the brisket with whatever type of seasonings you prefer and put directly on the rack. If you want smoked apples or onions, put them on a different rack.

All the Cookshacks and FEs cook moist enough that you don't need to braise a brisket. I don't even foil until I pull them off the smoker to rest. Some here foil later on in the smoke and add a little broth or other liquid at that time.

quote:

Originally posted by EZ Goin:
No offense, but it sounds like you want some kind of pot roast. If that's the case, go for it. The whole idea of bbq brisket is low and slow and smoke. Sitting in a liquid, the smoke is not going to penetrate the meat all that well. The liquid might make a gravy with smoke flavor, but then again you're talking pot roast.

Personally, I'd rub the brisket with whatever type of seasonings you prefer and put directly on the rack. If you want smoked apples or onions, put them on a different rack.

All the Cookshacks and FEs cook moist enough that you don't need to braise a brisket. I don't even foil until I pull them off the smoker to rest. Some here foil later on in the smoke and add a little broth or other liquid at that time.

Good post! I agree 100%

Often I stress in posts to think about the cook that is cooking 50 pieces of large meat,holding,and serving them.

Would they go into all the detail,and create all the extra work,or keep it simple and survive the day's/night's cook.

In the case of old brisket cooks,the attitude was cook the whole load at about 180*,for about 24 hrs.

At that long a cook,delicate herbs and spices will break down and disappear.

Use what you keep on hand,and doesn't change too much over the cook.

Most cooks have salt, to drive the flavor of beef.

Pepper to give some heat.

Granulated garlic and onion would be used with most meals the cook served.

Now,when the workers got tired of eating the herd,you mixed in some chiles,your leftover black coffee,and enough water to just cover and stir.

Some of the creative cooks might have crushed some chiles and tossed on the packer, with the other basics.

At serving time,the meat tasted like beef,tendered up by the low/slow heat,and slightly smoked from the charred wood,and grease dripping on coals.


Burn down your logs,so you wouldn't oversmoke-or cook mostly with charcoal.

At that temp,you won't cook away the liquid,and large and small hunks of meat will be about the same doneness.

The extra time in the plateau will render more of the untrimmed fat,and break done more of the collagen.

Foil and cooler ,or let set in the cooker,as it cooled and the coals died.

Now years ago,when Smokin' and I were kids ,he took the time to show what a plain ol' packer looked like,before the above exotic cookin' treatment.

Smokin'Okie's Brisket101

Now,there is nothing wrong with adding our own SMALL special touches ,to make the brisket our own.

IMO,we need to learn how to cook a packer,so it tastes like beef,with only a hint of something special.

Here is another fine cook and forum member that cooks on a traditional stickburner,as well as a Cookshack.
I like to toss this out,for the keep it simple approach.

The temps can be adjusted for our CS.

Darcy's Indirect Cooked Packer Brisket.

Seems like folks want to "invent" the wheel,before just learning to cook what already works.

Well,I best get offa here,before someone accuses me of makin' a Smokin' post.

Grillmaster,

If that works for you, that's fine. But I think you'll get a lot of comments from "smokers" that you're just not doing the brisket justice.

Braising is close enough to foiling that you're really missing the point of smoking. With the fat up and the meat down, it will get almost no smoke to it. All of that extra stuff will give you a more pot roast taste than a true brisket taste.

Have you try the traditional method and it didn't work and just prefer this method?

Traditional would be rub, put it in the smoker, take it out at 195 and slice.

I would modify your method and start with the brisket just natural, rub and fat up on middle shelf. Let it go to 180.

Me, I wouldn't foil. And if you've never done one without foil, it's hard to judge your success. If you HAVE to braise it, I would go with Tom's method of adding the liquid when you wrap it and take it to 195. Leave out the rosemary (add to your rub if you want) and the other stuff, just add some liquid (broth, not fruit juice)

Your method will give you a braised roast, but it just won't be brisket. The method will certainly work and certainly give you a finished product, I just wouldn't classify it as a Smoked Brisket.

Hope that helps.

p.s. Next time, try a new thread. You're basically thread-jacking, (not a punishable offense) but what happens is your good info gets lost in someone else's post and we like for people to share good questions like yours.

Thank you Mr. Tom and Smokin,

Not used to forums, I promise, I will never hijack a thread again.

Thanks for all your insight, I was not going to braise or have the brisket touching the liquid, but was just thinking of having liquid in the bottom, it would keep the enclosure plenty moist - to alleviate the moping I thought I needed to do every hour.

I will try the following: just rub, cook fat cap up on middle rack and shoot for 195 internal meat temperatures. With no mop-or-basting...

Of course will still due the brisket dance, and throw salt over the shoulder for luck...

You're doing fine, we'll help you through this. The CS was designed first as a brisket cooker, so it does a good job with keeping the inside of the smoker moist (humid) just by design.

Try the first one this way as a baseline, then adjust from that.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Smokin'

Smokin and Tom,

I am hoping you can clear up my confusion. You both seem to be the resident brisket experts but you recommend different methods that contradict each other. Tom quite often refers to Darcy's method of foiling and Smokin doesn't recommend foiling.

It sounds like you both compete in BBQ competitons--can you foil in a brisket comp?

I have benefited much reading your solutions to peoples brisket problems, but I don't think I have read how you each do your OWN from start to finish . I am wondering if you would be willing to tell us step by step from start to finish how you cook a brisket--temps, wood, rub, foiling, hold times, etc.

Thanks.

Brett

Afternoon Brett,

Have you tried "Brisket 101" for Brisket according to Smokin'.

http://www.cookshack.com/brisket-101

Here's another good one from Weber.

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/brisketselect.html#defined

Hope it helps.

Well, we're not limited to one Expert are we?

Two methods of getting to similar ends. My preference for F#$@ (it's a four letter word) is a personal preference to me. It's legal in comps and truly is just a personal preference.

Take both and work what method works for you. Tom knows I don't think you're a GREAT brisket cook until you learn to cook with Foil. If he likes Foil it's because he lives in Florida (as he throws down the gauntlet)....

Both methods work.

I would said, it's easier to foil than it is to cook one without. Briskets dry out for newbies and the foil helps them.

quote:

I don't think I have read how you each do your OWN from start to finish . I am wondering if you would be willing to tell us step by step from start to finish how you cook a brisket--temps, wood, rub, foiling, hold times, etc.

Hooks, right, that's my old / original method for Brisket, it's the 101 (I wrote that oh, about 6 years ago, aimed mostly at Smokette owners) and I am updating it...

All the 101's (turkey, ribs, Prime RIb, brining) are mine.

I like to toss out Darcy's method,because it cuts thru lots of the fine tuning of prepping/cooking briskets,that folks like to put forth in exotic "recipes".

He does his method,and cuts to the chase.

He leaves out most of the wild,exotic steps.

If you follow his method,step for step,take careful notes,and make small adjustments,you can develop your technique that works.

This is NOT my technique,or Smokin'Okie's.

Darcy uses a method,that can work on many types of cookers,and cuts thru the many fancy techniques.

The "World Champion Brisket Recipe" keeps showing up in the search,and it drives me crazy.

I'm sure it makes a tender product ,as a pressure cooker does,but the folks that rave about it,should taste a real brisket,cooked low and slow,without all the "refinements" and see if that is what they are really trying to achieve.

If it is,I'm happy for them,but that is not what I try to achieve.

In all the years I've cooked on traditional Cookshacks,I've never found the need to use foil in the cooking process.

If you read my posts,where I say the CS was developed by Donna's family,a half century ago,to cook briskets,I never mention anything other than to learn how to cook with the cooker,as it is designed.

I did my comp practice on a CS 160,without EVER needing to use foil.

If the sanctioning bodies,allowed traditional Cookshacks,I'd be thrilled to cook comps on them.

Now,foil is a tool,when you are behind on time,the product won't work,you have lost your heat source.

Yes,we've had the chance to work with experienced cooks that know many tricks,to avoid outright failure.

You have a poor quality piece of meat,that should be ground for burgers,or used for pot roast,or corned beef/pastrami,foil can be a last resort to achieve an edible product.

Smokin' worked hard, to give a rough draft,about how to start on a brisket.

He gave me my most important tips,to take very good notes,make adjustments one step at a time,and take very careful notes of the results.

That's what has allowed me to achieve our modest success.

Yes,we both react to specific questions from forum members,that we hope fit into that small niche in that cook's technique.

No,it may not fit into your small niche,into your technique.

Smokin',over the years,has emphasized that each product is a process,and "clumping" pieces of other's techniques won't usually work.

The certified judges tend to travel much of the nation,as their circuit,so much of the judging can be close.

There are also regional differences,that show up.

We cook around the southeast,and Smokin' cooks around the southwest,but we cook with many of the same cookteams on the circuit.

I think that Smokin' would agree,that brisket is a trial and error process,where your failures tend to lead to your successes.

Quality meats,and hands on experience,are very helpful.

We are all experienced judges,so we have a feel for what it is we are trying to accomplish,with each product.

Taking a class from a winning cook can cut your learning time,drastically.

You spend 36 hrs walking in their shoes,and feeling with their hands.

I guess what I'm saying is that Smokin' and I may help you over a hump,as you learn,but our "method" in text,may not help too much.

Hope this helps a little.

You guys are getting way too philosophical about foil... Foil is kind-of a NASA thing from the sixties, it started out a very special material...

How about you cook-it right, when done, jab it with a fork, if you don't like what you feel, wrap it in foil for a while and hope it will elevate your brisket to a new world... Hopefully that new world is is full of friends yelling "best brisket we ever had"

On the lighter side: if one could just post, how many quarters one should stick in the smoker meter to get "Medium-Well" on the tender-juicy side, all this auguring would be over...

I know ... I know... still high jacking this thread. S-o-r-r-y .


Just making a stab at levity...

I have a different problem. I read all the posts from folks asking how to cook a butt or a brisket, and I can't figure out where all the angst and confusion comes from.

I had never cooked a brisket before I bought my CS about 5 years ago. I had also never eaten a brisket that was fit to eat, so I really didn't have much to base any opinion on other than just believing that all those Texans couldn't be wrong. So one day I bought a whole packer, rubbed it with Lawrey's Garlic Salt and coarse grind black pepper and put it in the smoker set at 225*. The timer went off about 18 hours later when the meat hit 195* and I was rewarded with what I later realized was a darn fine brisket. The only thing I consulted the forum about was the doneness temp, and found quickly that 195* was a good temp to work with, and I pretty much ignored everything else that tended to complicate things. All the secrets and tips and extra steps seemed like a bunch of crap to me. I have since cooked several hundred briskets, maybe a thousand even, and I still do it exactly the same way. No changes at all, and so far, I haven't had any failures at all, or even any near misses. The briskets have been extremely consistent. The only other step I take is to buy briskets from the same source all the time, Wal-Mart. There's my big secret.

Same advice for butts. Use quality meat, put it in the smoker and leave it alone until it's done. I really don't get all these fancy rubs and mustard and other stuff(coffee grounds on brisket.....Uck!). They might make a difference in comps, but if you think your local BBQ joint is lovingly rubbing their butts every night you're very mistaken as Tom alluded too.

Growing up, my family's restaurant cooked about 1 ton of shoulders a day. Every day. That's about 120-140 shoulders every day. They got coated with a family secret special rub that consisted of 1 part cayenne pepper to 9 parts kosher salt, then cooked over hickory and oak for about 12-16 hours. Must have worked okay, we were in business for over 50 years and spun off several other restaurants that are still open today. My message is to follow the KISS method. The results are consistant and the labor (you) is happier.

Todd,that was a great post,and a welcome one.

A number of us on here try to give hints that may be helpful,when someone has cooked several of something,and can't achieve an edible product.

Very few of our suggestions are intended to be THE steps in the cooking process.

As Todd says,"open door,put meat in,cook until you hit an internal temp,open door and check meat.

IF....there is a problem,make a small adjustment,and record the results.

As Todd says,after a few attempts the cooker usually handles our problems.

Cooks that have helped me,Smokin' included,stress learn how the cooker works,and how to basically cook the product.

If there is a problem,adjust.

If that doesn't solve the problem,ask the forum,and see if someone has a thought.

Usually the more ingredients,and more tips you use,the weaker your product.

We all stress reading the forum,before starting,and many questions will be answered.

We all want each cook to be great,so it is human to try all the tricks-at once.

I guess maybe we should stress more reading Smokin's 101 s,and then just cook something.

Wait until there is a problem,before trying all the tricks.

Once again-great post.

I agree. Very good post. Positive. Onwards and upwards !

Thanks for the kind words.

I thought about it and the only problem a newbie is likely to make that would result in a bad result is if they had a bad insertion point for the therm probe. I know it takes about 9 hours to cook 2 8# butts in my smoker, so if the beeper goes off 4 hours into the cook, I know something is wrong and I go down and re-insert the probe. Usually I'll watch the temp drop from 190* to 160* or so and then I go back to bed. Someone that didn't know better or didn't remember how long their last butts took to get done might pull the meat out of the smoker and have themselves some really bad eating. Then they post and say their butt which cooked to 195* was raw and tough and they don't understand why. But beyond that, I can't think of a problem that is likely to crop up and destroy someone's food. These cookers are absolutely reliable and foolproof in my opinion.

Hey you ask me and Tom about BBQ, you KNOW you don't get quick answers.

Funny thing growing up....Briskets were the easiest thing for me to cook.

KISS principal works

Keep It Simple Stupid

We have the 321 for ribs, now we need the KISS for brisket